Revenge of the Sith (mega spoilers)

Toxis

Originally posted by MacLeod
Thats why there needs to be a "high end" theater.

The Warren in Wichita KS. All theaters were actually designed and tuned by Lucas himself. The big theater has a 4 story screen. VIP areas that serve food and drink (yes even alcoholic) while you sit in your own recliner. I might be wrong, but I think they have DLP projectors as well. That's right... I'm thinking of going down there soon to rewatch Episode III.

MacLeod

Oh hell yeah! Thats what they need more of.

In my 33 years on this earth Ive come to the realization that if you want to enjoy something without a lot of punk **** people **** it up, pay a little more.

Go to a $2 theater and its gonna be like a Rocky Horror Picture Show. Go to a $20 theater and its a whole other experience.

Same with a restaurant. Go to a Chilis and youre gonna have a lot different crowd and experience than you would at somewhere like a J Alexanders.

bobman1235

Finally got to see this. Pretty much have the same response as most... WOW. Only complaints (movie-wise) being the quickness of Anikin's turn. I was annoyed by that.

However, my annoyance may have been expediated by the fact that about four different people brought their 4 or 5-year old kids with them to the freakin theater, for an 8:30PM Sunday night showing of Star Wars 3?!! The kid (or kids, I couldn't tell if it was just one of them, I just know I saw several leaving, and had a word wtih all of the parents with them... which was useless cuz none of them even spoke freakin English... I hate the city) was whining and talking throughout the whole goddamned movie. I mean, I can see a few little peeps out fo them, then the parents say "shut up" and they stop. But no, t his was almost CONSTANT whining and bickering. Why can't people just have the slightest hint of respect and consideration for their fellow man? Is that too much to ask?

I think I remember why i started getting into HT - I hate other people.

Toxis

I must've got lucky. Only one kid cried and it was for about 15 seconds and that was it. Must've got a nipple to the mouth... works on me. Other than that, everyone was a fan and shut up and listened. Not to bad overall (crowd wise).

avelanchefan

I just got back from seeing it. I am excited about it as everyone else here seems to be. When I walked out of the theater all I wanted to do was turn around and pay for another go around.....to me it was that great!!

As for some of the complaints about how fast they persieved Anikans turn to the dark side...well for me I felt you could see it coming the whole time. I felt like everyone in the Jedi council knew he was going to do it, but they were in denial of seeing it. Just my opinion though.

And how about the acting. By far the best since Empire Strikes Back. Natalie and Christian were great! For a Star Wars film they could not have done any better.

I swear some of you may laugh but got a little emotional with the ending. Maybe I did not want it to end, but for the first time in a Stars Wars film their was some real emotion. Seeing Luke, Leia, Yoda and Ben go their seperate ways was almost(ALMOST!) gut wrenching.

But what sold me was seeing Ewan stroke his beard just like Sir Alex did in the first movie. Such a subtle touch but so convincing.

Only thing I was left to wonder was how was Qui Gon Ginn going to teach Konobi to be a stronger Jedi?

fireshoes

Does he need to be stronger? He already whipped Darth Vader's ****!

gregure

Yoda's instructions to Obi Wan from Qui Gon were in regards to learning how to live on through the force after death, as in Empre and Jedi. This is a Jedi technique that Qui Gon had apparently mastered before death, and had passed on to Yoda through their (unshown) communication after his death, as Obi Wan communicated w/ Yoda and Luke in Empire/Jedi. As Yoda told Anakin, the Jedi way is to celebrate death as the transition to becoming one with the Force. In other words, without the Jedi technique passed on by Qui Gon, even the Jedi become absorbed into the Force, and their individual spirit is lost.

Just saw ROTS tonight by the way. Overall thought it was very good, lots of fun action and some surprisingly dark scenes. Only a few things bothered me, most of all being the entire scene where Mace and the Jedi go to arrest Palpatine, and the subsequent battle. Makes no sense why Palpatine continued to eject bolts when they were being deflected back upon him and eating him away. Really couldn't swallow that one. And, as earlier mentioned, Anakin's unequivocal subjugation to Palpatine after very little real conflict. Yes, they set it up earlier in the series, but it still was more forced and quick than I was hoping for.

Other than that, though, overall it was a good time and much better than the previous two prequels.

I couldn't help but laugh aloud at the end when Vader screamed "NOOOOO!" after learning of Padme's death. So freakin' corny.

Ron-P

Ron-P,

I can tell you this, if your a star wars fan, you will enjoy this movie. For no other reason, the links and questions you might have had in the past ,will be answered in this movie. Learning and seeing things come together also make the first 2 make more sense.

I'd like to read what you think after you see it.

Dan

I am a Star Wars fan but 99% of that is a fan of the original trilogy, not so much a fan of this new stuff. I did talk with my neighbors over the weekend and they say (and I've heard this before) that #3 ranks right with Empire or just below it at #3. Better then Jedi and the first 2 of this new trilogy.

I am looking forward to seeing Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy this weekend, taking my daughter to see it. If I have time to see SW this weekend I will but Hitchhiker's has priority.

DarqueKnight

Originally posted by gregure
In other words, without the Jedi technique passed on by Qui Gon, even the Jedi become absorbed into the Force, and their individual spirit is lost.

Jedi follow two Force philosophies: (1)The Unifying Force, in which Jedi seek to become one with the Force after physical death and (2) The Living Force, in which Jedi seek to retain their identity after death. Most Jedi were adherents to The Unifying Force philosophy because the Living Force philosophy was construed as a quest for personal power, which was anathema to Jedi ideals.

Qui Gon Jinn's adherence to the Living Force philosophy was a source of friction between him and the council.

I saw the film today during a noon matinee. There were only about 20 people in the theater.:)

I liked it for the most part, but it, like every movie, had some annoying plot holes that left some questions unanswered. I thought this "episode" would tie all the loose ends together and answer all the unanswered questions.:(

1. Obi Wan told Vader in their final confrontation in the Original Trilogy that "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine". Obi Wan raises his light saber, Vader strikes, Obi Wan disappears. Obi Wan later appears to Luke in spirit form.

When Qui Gon Jinn was struck down by Darth Maul, he didn't immediately vanish. When Yoda dies of natural causes, he does vanish. Why the discrepancies?

2. Since Qui Gon was so adamant about Anakin receiving Jedi training, and since Qui Gon was able to communicate with those still in the physical realm, why didn't he take a more active role in Anakin's training?

3. At the end of Return of the Jedi, the spirit forms of Yoda, Anakin Skywalker, and Obi Wan are seen. It was not explained how Vader/Anakin learned the "Trancendental Force" technique. Obi Wan certainly didn't teach him. I doubt if the emperor taught him because, at the core, Palpatine considered Vader a threat. Furthermore, considering the tradition of Sith Lords murdering their masters, Palpatine would never teach his apprentice such a technique. Especially since Palpatine admitted killing his master after being taught all that his master knew.

4. It was difficult to accept the bit about Padme losing the will to live and dying of a broken heart. Padme had been portrayed as a strong, heroic, selfless, and compassionate leader. I can't see such a character surrendering her life force over a wayward man, especially since there was nothing physically wrong with her and she had two newborn babies to take care of.

5. Why weren't Obi Wan and Anakin sweating profusely during their battle on Mustafar? Wasn't it very hot there? Why weren't their lungs singed by the superheated air while hovering a few feet above a river of molten lava? The lava must have been several thousand degrees. The air just above the lava must have been several hundred degrees at least.

Aside from the above, it was a nice afternoon diversion.

Toxis

Here's something I don't understand.

In ROTJ, with Luke and Leah talking on the bridge, Luke asks her if she remembers her mother. "She was beautiful but often depressed." Leah knows that they're siblings so she must be talking about Padme. How the hell does she know that from a few minutes after being born and remembers it til she was much older???

Shizelbs

Maybe she is talking about her adopted mother? Just a guess.

okiepolkie

One thing I did like about the movie was Yoda and Palpatine's fight in the senate chamber.

I thought it was very appropriate that Palpatine tore the Republic apart seat by seat, showing no regard for the Republic at all.

Overall, I liked it.

bobman1235

Originally posted by Toxis
Here's something I don't understand.

In ROTJ, with Luke and Leah talking on the bridge, Luke asks her if she remembers her mother. "She was beautiful but often depressed." Leah knows that they're siblings so she must be talking about Padme. How the hell does she know that from a few minutes after being born and remembers it til she was much older???

Another explanation I've also heard was that due to the force she had more insight into her mother, either while a fetus or even after she died.

Strong Bad

In the original trilogy, Luke had the last name of Skywalker while Princess Leia had the last name of Organa (adoptive parents). Luke knew he was adopted by his Aunt and Uncle (the Lars couple) while Leia may have been led to believe that the Organa family was her real parents (until the truth came out).

Mommy Organa may have died when she was young which would explain her having some memory of a mother, but not necessarily her true mother. Luke on the oher hand knew he was adopted.

Thats the way I see it.


John

MSkeezer

I agree. I think it would be rather foolish to tell Leia who her REAL parents were.

begbie

From "Yippeeee!!!" to "NNnnooooooo!!!" :rolleyes:

From major disappointment with Episode 1 to frustration to Episode 2, I went in with rock bottom expectations on Episode 3.

Granted there will be bad acting, cheesy dialogue, to CGI overload, all I could hope for is some cool lightsaber fights . - didn't get it-:mad:

The General "badguy" or Grievous fight with Obi Wan showed Obi Wan outnumbered against 4 light sabers (2 that are spinning!) but somehow with 2 or 3 quick edits he sliced his hands off ??! On to a chase scene than the usual "hangin by a nail" and grab the convienent gun nearby.

Mace Windu against Palpatine was a bit better but Windu must've had the lamest Jedis to back him up. They just stood there and took it ?! Than you got Palpatine turning and screaming into a prune face brought on unintentional laughs.

The final battle with Anakin and Obi Wan was still a mixture of quick edits, closeups of the duelers and flashing. Than the "higher ground" thing was just icing on the cake. I mean they must've exchanged the higher ground serveral times or more. Anakin could always do a "force jump" or a fake but whatever the case he simply didn't lose the bout in that situation cause there was so many like it before.

They should've stuck with the fight choreography from Phantom Menace. Or just hire Yuen Woo Ping.

There was so much more that disappointed me but like I said I lowered my expectation and Lucas still didn't deliver. At least there are the likes of Spielberg, Ridley, Peter Jackson, even Yimou that are creating "new magic" in film today.

PolkThug

Originally posted by begbie
... but Windu must've had the lamest Jedis to back him up. They just stood there and took it ?!

Yeah, those so-called Jedi were about as useful as the guys with red shirts on Star Trek. Whenever Spock and Kirk would go down to a new planet with four guys with red shirts, you knew the red shirt guys were either gonna get killed or turned into gelatinous cubes.

DarqueKnight

Originally posted by gregure
Let's face it, Anakin's turn to the dark side is the crux of the whole prequel trilogy, the entire point of their being made, and to present it quickly and unconvincingly is just about the biggest mistake he could have made in fleshing out the story. He turned to save his wife? He killed all the Jedi children because he wanted the power to save Padme? He committed ultimate betrayal and murder because he trusted a Sith Lord more than his friends? The motivations presented for his turn are very superficial and unrealistic, and they do not lead us to the amoralistic, truly badass Vader of the OT.

The story of Anakin Skywalker is an interesting character study of one man's transformation from innocent youth, to a noble, celebrated warrior, to a cruel, hideous monster, and finally to redemption.

Within the sad context of Anakin's/Vader's life, his motivations for turning to the dark side make perfect sense to me. I see the pivotal point in his life as the murdering of an entire group of Tuscan Raiders, even innocent women and children, as revenge for the murder of his mother. I was expecting Ep.3 to show that Palpatine/Darth Sidious orchestrated Anakin's mother's kidnapping and murder in order to start him down the path to the dark side.

Vader's entire life was one of being powerless and in subjection to others. First he and his mother belonged to Guardalla the Hutt, then they were sold to Watto the junk dealer. Next, Anakin is separated from his mother and drawn into a life of indentured servitude to the Jedi Order. Finally, he spends the remainder of his life under the Emperor's heel.

I can understand the lust for power and turning to the only person who is offering the power to be free and to prevent the loss of the most important person in your life. He only had two people in his life who loved him unconditionally: his mother and his wife. He also looked to Palpatine as a friend, mentor, and even as a father figure.

On the other hand, the Jedi were his "friends" as long as he was serving them. Furthermore, Anakin probably felt that if the Jedi hadn't taken him away from his mother, he would have been able to protect her when she needed him. With these kinds of thoughts undoubtedly running through his mind, it is a wonder he stayed loyal to the Jedi as long as he did.

Ultimately, the Jedi brought about their own demise: (1) They were under duress and their resources were being stretched thin. The Jedi Council knew Anakin was dangerous, but they were willing to take the risk, and even tolerate his arrogant and disrespectful attitude, in order to gain the services of an exceptional warrior. It's sort of like the way the antics of star athletes are tolerated as long as their performance is consistently high calibre. (2) Obi Wan should have (mercifully) killed Vader after he was left burned and mutilated by the lava river. Obi Wan's running off and leaving Vader to die a slow painful death was not very noble. I guess you do things like that when you don't love a person anymore. This confirmed Vader's suspicion that he would be "discarded" as soon as he was no longer useful to his Jedi masters.

kberg

I've said in previous posts that I hated all of the past Star Wars movies, but at least I saw them and gave them the chance they deserved to entertain me. And I did it again - I went into the theater to see ROTS, even a bit biased that I was to be once again disappointed, but guess what? This time I wasn't! IMO, this movie stands on its own, tells a great story of who is what and who became what and why, and does it extremely well.

I probably won't ever buy the other SW flicks on DVD because I really don't like them that much, but this one was much different to me, and it ought to make one helluva demo DVD! Yes, I will be buying it.

Toxis

Originally posted by bobman1235
Another explanation I've also heard was that due to the force she had more insight into her mother, either while a fetus or even after she died.

and Luke didn't know his dad was Vader??

DarqueKnight

Couldn't one twin have more insight and intuition than the other? They were, after all, fraternal rather than identical twins.;)

Toxis

Touche.

gregure

Originally posted by begbie

Mace Windu against Palpatine was a bit better but Windu must've had the lamest Jedis to back him up. They just stood there and took it ?!

Agree. That whole scene could have been staged much better.
They were all supposed to be Jedi Masters, yet the scene really makes it look like they put up almost no fight at all. Granted, Sideous is powerful, but it is obvious from the film that both Mace and Yoda were more powerful than him, and could have bested him were circumstances different.
Even if he was fighting off Mace's sword, it still really pisses me off that Sideous basically scarred himself with his own lightning. I was really hoping for the story behind his deformity to be more dramatic or cool than that. Like somehow Yoda was able to repel his lightning in their battle and scar him that way. Just thought that whole scene could have been better.

gregure

Originally posted by DarqueKnight

I can understand the lust for power and turning to the only person who is offering the power to be free and to prevent the loss of the most important person in your life. He only had two people in his life who loved him unconditionally: his mother and his wife. He also looked to Palpatine as a friend, mentor, and even as a father figure.

Obi Wan should have (mercifully) killed Vader after he was left burned and mutilated by the lava river. Obi Wan's running off and leaving Vader to die a slow painful death was not very noble. I guess you do things like that when you don't love a person anymore. This confirmed Vader's suspicion that he would be "discarded" as soon as he was no longer useful to his Jedi masters.

I think you raise some good points here, but the reality is Lucas wasted 4 hours of film leading up to this point, and was forced to make it happen so quickly as to, for me, make it less than convincing. I liked the scenes between Palpatine and Anakin, however I'm not convinced he could go from "what have I done" after helping Palpatine kill Mace, to slaughtering Jedi children in the span of one scene. It's just too much to believe that Anakin instantaneously could divorce himself of all regard for the Jedi, despite what Sideous had told him. It portrays him as weak minded, as if he can't think for himself. The Darth Vader of the OT never displayed that behavior.

In regards to your comment about Obi Wan leaving him to die a slow death, thus displaying the Jedi's willingness to discard him, I think that's way off. Obi Wan showed obvious remorse before, during and after the battle, and Yoda displayed genuine care for Anakin before his turn as well. Perhaps Kenobi was simply unable to kill Anakin, as he believed him to be dying anyway. Or, perhaps there was a part of him that wanted to see Anakin suffer for what he had done at the Temple. Either way, I think it is taking it too far to say that he was willing to simply discard him. I don't believe there is enough evidence for that.

Thanks for the contribution. Really enjoyed reading your argument. Again, lots of good points there. Lucas gave us enough to piece it together, just not enough to make it fully work dramatically.

DarqueKnight

I don't know that Vader's turn happened as quickly as the movie may have made it seem. One disadvantage of movies, as opposed to books, is that a movie director has approximately 2 hours to tell a story that transpired over weeks, months, or years. Telling a story in "compressed" time often means that a substantial amount of time may pass between scenes in a movie. Director's often won't explain the time lapse between scenes unless a gap of months or years has passed.

begbie

Originally posted by DarqueKnight
..... Director's often won't explain the time lapse between scenes unless a gap of months or years has passed.

Agreed.

Exactly what Lucas can't do and other better directors can.

PolkThug

Originally posted by gregure
Even if he was fighting off Mace's sword, it still really pisses me off that Sideous basically scarred himself with his own lightning. I was really hoping for the story behind his deformity to be more dramatic or cool than that.

Its deeper than you think. His whole goal was to suck Anakin in and get him to go against Mace. He let himself get "hurt" on purpose and played a little opossum. If you recall, after Anakin slashed Mace, Sideous had 100% **** kickin' lightning bolt power.

PhantomOG

Originally posted by gregure
I couldn't help but laugh aloud at the end when Vader screamed "NOOOOO!" after learning of Padme's death. So freakin' corny.

my thoughts exactly. the scene putting vader's helmet on was so kickass and then the cheesy "NOOOO" scene just ruined it. i wish they somehow could have conveyed more of an emotional death to Anakin in that scene to tie in to his character in the original trilogy a little bit better.

i too wish Anakin's switch would have been a little less quick and covered more in depth.

MacLeod

Yup. I took it that he was always in control. He acted weak and powerless to get Anakin to step in. Notice that once he did he zapped the hell out of Mace.

As far as Mace and Yoda being more powerful, I took it that Mace was not. It took the breaking of the window and the decompression to knock Sidius' sabre out of his hand and even so, he still had 50,000 volts at his call. And Yoda vs Sidius was more of a draw to me.

And the reason Obi Wan didnt kill Anakin? He didnt want to catch on fire!!!

Toxis

Windu was every bit as powerful as Yoda. In the meetings, who did the talking? I could've swore somewhere someone said they were equals in terms of power.