2000w 6x9's into CDXS2000 in 306XR - Advice?

Systems · April 2005

Hi All...

I'm looking into getting some decent speakers for my car... Peugeot 306 XR.

I currently have a Sony CDX-S2000 stereo with 4x50w channels.

I don't want an amp, and i want 6x9 speakers.

Maximum budget is £70 delivered, to the UK.

http://www.theloudest.co.uk/index.php?id=view_product&product_id=80

Saw these - can get them for £70 to my door... 116oz Strontium magnets... and they would look good on my parcel shelf too.

Anyone have anything good/bad to say about these?

New to this area of things... any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks all

Chris

MacLeod · April 2005

First off, your Sony 50x4 head unit is only about 12x4. Head units are a very poor source for power. Youll never get really good sound quality out of it.

If you read closely, those are 350 watt speakers. The 2000 watts is peak which is pretty much meaningless.

Personally Id stay away from them. For one, Ive never heard of them. And second a speaker that can handle 350 RMS would probably not sound very good and if you ran it off your head unit you probably wouldnt even move the cone any.

I dont know your budget cause I dont know what 70 pounds is in US dollars but if you want a good set of 6x9s and insist on using your head unit then check out these DB's. If you do upgrade to an amp then get these which are in my opinion the best 6x9s on the market. I owned a set of these for about a year and a half and they are awesome.

Systems · April 2005

Ok £70 (GBP) is about $125 (USD) $160 (CAD)...

So you don't reckon my Sony stereo could drive a couple of 175w RMS speakers? In the PDF manual for them it says you don't need to amp them up...

Is the stated 50w per channel on my stereo peak as opposed to RMS then?

I know people who run pretty powerful 6x9's straight from the stereo... and they sound great... but if you seriously think mine would struggle then i will reconsider my options...

Chris

MacLeod · April 2005

We have a saying around here. A head units power rating is only good when lightning is striking it. Look at the size of the head unit. Now figure at most 2/3 of it is amp. Now go to a shop and look at a typical 50x4 amp. Its about 4 times the size. An amp the size of a head unit's just doesnt have the muscle to put out 50x4.

If you have a speaker that handles 100 watts you will need 75-100 watts to make it perform its best. Consider an automobile. Would you try to power a 6000 pound truck with a 120 horsepower 4 cylinder engine? Sure it would move but c'mon. Speakers are the same way. More power = better sound quality.

audiobliss · April 2005

I would most definitely get an amp, no matter what speakers you decide on. Like Mac pointed out, those speakers are rated at 350watts; your HU would never make them move!! lol I'd stay away from those speakers 'cause I've never heard of them. Go with Mac's suggestions if you want a 6x9 speaker; the db series is pretty good stuff. If you could afford to put out a little more money and[/i] get an amp, I'd go with some MOMO 6x9s. If you can't afford that, don't worry about it; just go with the db series and an amp. Be sure to get an amp, though, no matter what you get!! And like Mac said, those db690s will need about 100 watts to push 'em.

What's your budget for the amp, speakers, and everything? We can help ya pick all that out.

neomagus00 · April 2005

mac has hit it on the head... you will get sound, and it will probably be better than stock, if you ran 6x9s off your HU (because yes, that "50x4" is peak). the advantage of an amp is not only in volume - stepping up to a 100x4 amp will only give you about 10 more dBs - but the design and power of an amp really lets the music flow; you can hear more detail and at a lower volume than an um-amped speaker.

and we're reccommending against your original speaker idea because the big companies got that way for a reason, and the small companies - with few exceptions - are small for a reason. polk simply cannot be beat for their price; i heartily reccommend the db series

audiobliss · April 2005

To clarify a little more about an amp: Like spwui whoever (lol) said, it's not for a gain in volume. The more watts you have going to your speakers (within reason, fo course), the 'clearer' the sound is going to be. The quality of the music will be much better. Also, there will be more power on tap for dynamics; thus, it'll be able to deliver a big 'surge' (help me with terminology here guys; my brain just went dead) when the music calls for, umm, a big surge. lol.....hopefully you get the point....

Systems · April 2005

Right... So i really need an amp then...

It may well be i have to save up over a couple of months... maybe even three...

The situation is, i'm 17, at college, and work 12 hours a week at the equivalent to your Wal*Mart...

I pay roughly 200 US dollars (105 of my hard earned English pounds) just to keep my car insured - insurance over here is *ridiculous* - $2833 per year as i am a new driver!

That leaves me with about 200 bucks disposable income per month... and thats what i have to spend... minus a little under a hundred bucks of that for 'gas' - fuel prices here have hit an astronomical high...

...$8.10 a gallon...

... So i'm looking for value for money here - i want impressive Bass... nothing over the top... and quality. I don't want anything over the top at all... And i don't need anything that will go louder than my ears can physically take either!!

So whats the best option you guys can come up with?

Some english sites are...

www.theloudest.co.uk
www.thebassbin.co.uk
www.newimagecarhifi.co.uk
www.ebay.co.uk << have been looking here previously

Thanks again for all your (greatly appreciated) advice...

Systems · April 2005

http://thebassbin.co.uk/shop/product_list/c_path/251_252_264/spd/sub---amp---6x9-deal.html

Any of the cheaper deals here any good just out of curiosity?

To convert currencies use www.xe.com if you are unsure of rough prices...

And **Sigh** Yes, England is expensive, if you haven't realised that already!

MacLeod · April 2005

The easy way is to just stick to name brands.

Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Polk, Kicker, Sony, JBL, Infinity and so on.

All of these are quality manufacturers and anything you buy from them will be good.

Systems · April 2005

Hence why i was looking at these packages (see link in previous post)...

It's all Pioneer, Sony, infinity... etc etc and at discounted prices if bought as one of their package kit things...

Any of them strike you as being the best bang for the buck? There are some similar ones at similar prices... with different amps and i have no clue about amps... any advice on the ones shown?

Cheers again

audiobliss · April 2005

I'm going to say that these two are pretty good:

http://thebassbin.co.uk/shop/product/products_id/2161.html

http://thebassbin.co.uk/shop/product/products_id/2137.html

Systems · April 2005

Funnily enough... those were the two i was looking at... and thinking they looked pretty good... so thanks for confirming what i thought...

350 bucks though... yikes...

Ok - is there anything spectaculary better about the more expensive of the two?

Another couple of questions - how does the Amp connect to the head unit and how is the Amp powered?

And whats MOSFET?

Cheers Guys

audiobliss · April 2005

I would definitely try to go for the more expensive one of those two. The speakers are the same, but the Kicker amp is better on the first one. It puts out 100 watts instead of 75 watts, so it'll give you a cleaner sound and more headroom. Also, the sub is nicer on the first one.

Ok, here's the basics of hooking it all up. You have your HU in you dash. You mount your amp somewhere under a seat or something. Then, you run a power wire from your battery (the (+) terminal) to the power input on your amp. Then you run a ground wire from your amp either 1) back to the battery (the (-) terminal), or, more commonly, to a bolt through the floor of the vehicle where you've scraped off all the paint so it'll have a solid connection. This gives the amp power. Now, you run a wire (REM I believe it's called) from a designated hook-up on the back of your HU to the designated hook-up on your amp. This is so that the HU can tell the amp when to turn on. Then you run RCA cables from the back of the HU to the amp. Finally you run speaker wire from the amp to your speakers.

MOSFET is just a (relatively...not really..) new technology in amps. It stands for 'Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor.

neomagus00 · April 2005

Originally posted by Chrispostill
It may well be i have to save up over a couple of months... maybe even three...

i hear that, 18 months and counting

The situation is, i'm 17, at college, and work 12 hours a week at the equivalent to your Wal*Mart...

lucky you... you have disposable income... grrr...

insurance over here is *ridiculous* - $2833 per year as i am a new driver!

i feel that... $3k pour moi...

...$8.10 a gallon...

holy mother of tim...:eek:

and i've realised that there's a bunch of responses now, so listen to them

p.s. audiobliss - there's mosfets and... what? some other (non-tube) amplification device that's supposed to be better...??

audiobliss · April 2005

Originally posted by neomagus00
p.s. audiobliss - there's mosfets and... what? some other (non-tube) amplification device that's supposed to be better...??

I wouldn't have a clue....lol. Sorry.

Systems · April 2005

Is it usually very hard to run the cable from the Head Unit to the amplifier then - do you have to take the dash apart to run it neatly?

I emailed "theloudest.co.uk" early yesterday asking them about their speakers... and this is what the guy said:

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your email. It is quite amusing that some people only like to buy car audio equipment based on a brand name. But it is understandable with some of the unbranded names around, (especially on
eBay) to class everyone in the same boat.

We are a little different though; we have the backing of one of the top audio installers in the country (James at Audioscape). He only recommends speakers at £600 + a pair. Our speakers are rated "as good as" these kind of specialist ones, and the guy is picky! He gets paid around 8 k for an install, from people like football players.

We also are supplying MG Rover dealers with aftermarket speakers (4, 5 and 6.5" upgrades, and 6x9" additions).

We have distributor agents from top names such as JBL, Kenwood and Gemini asking us to let them distribute out gear.

We have features coming up in 5 UK car magazines (including two specialist audio ones), the reviews are fantastic and we will be using quotes from them to help promote our gear.

So there are a few brief reasons why we are a little different.

Apart from that, 350 watts RMS from a 6x9" speaker!! Its the most powerful in the world, and the magazines are really interested in this alone.

The 6x9 speakers can be run from your head unit, no problem. Comments about moving the cone are a little puzzling. The speakers are rated UP TO 350 watts RMS, but work fine at lower levels too. It is just that there will be no difference in power from the 150w RMS TL-1692 speakers we do, at such low levels.

They will work, and work well, with your stereo, but its like buying a car capable of 180 mph, that you only drive at 30 mph!

To get the most from them it would be advisable to use an amplifier.

I hope this helps.

All the best,

Adam
TheLoudest.co.uk Sales

Obviously i wont get any of these speakers because you all advised against it, but i thought you would be interested in the above...

Chris

Systems · April 2005

i feel that... $3k pour moi...

What car?!

spwuinmk67 · April 2005

Originally posted by audiobliss
To clarify a little more about an amp: Like spwui whoever (lol) said, it's not for a gain in volume. The more watts you have going to your speakers (within reason, fo course), the 'clearer' the sound is going to be. The quality of the music will be much better. Also, there will be more power on tap for dynamics; thus, it'll be able to deliver a big 'surge' (help me with terminology here guys; my brain just went dead) when the music calls for, umm, a big surge. lol.....hopefully you get the point....

I said this?

Don't remeber that, but it's all good.

audiobliss · April 2005

No, no, no.....see, now you're taking credit for that which you haven't done!!

lol

What you said was that it wasn't for volume. I said the rest...lol

EDIT: Upon re-reading this thread.....neo actually said that...LOL....my bad...

audiobliss · April 2005

Originally posted by ChrisPostill
What car?!

Si, que carro?

AustinKP · April 2005

Neo drives a Saab 9-? (2 or 3) convertible. He must have some tickets or something. $3k? That's outrageous! I drive a 2000 Mustang and pay just over $1k/year ($96/mo) for full coverage on mine AND liability for my wife's car! We both have clean records, but I'm only 24. It's not some small no-name dealer either; we go through Allstate.

Systems · April 2005

Woah...

I have a peugeot 306 1.6 litre (injection)... its 10 years old, is small... and i pay near 3k ($) insurance.

It is bigger and alot more powerful than what most people my age have though...!

And that insurance is only third party fire and theft - so they only pay out to the third party. No windcreen cover either.

And that was the cheapest quote around... i was quoted $6k...!!

neomagus00 · April 2005

6k! crikey! yeah, saab 9-3, teenager, 1 accident (:( less than 12 hours after i get my licence... megabummer...), 1 ticket... i'm also listed on my mom's car, cause it was cheaper to stick me on her policy...

not the best record ever, but surprisingly the accident and ticket didn't do a ton to the premiums...

anywhooo - chris, if you want to try the megapowered 6x9s, by all means, go for it - under two conditions. 1) you amp them to at least 150W and 2) there's a return policy

MacLeod · April 2005

That email rub anybody else the wrong way?

First, he finds it amusing when people would rather buy JL Audio or Focal rather than some speakers from The Loudest?? Jesus. Thats like saying "I find it amusing that people would rather buy BMW's and Aston Martins instead of this car made by some guy named Bob".

So hes got some features coming up in some magazines and such, well thats great. Get the name out there and prove theyre worthy competitors and more people will buy them. Brands like JL and Focal didnt start out being popular. They had to earn the consumers trust. This stupid attitude makes me not want to buy the speakers at all.

He tells ya they work fine off of head unit power then after a paragraph of that he akins it to driving a 180 mph car at 30 mph. So in other words, youll only be getting 1/6th of the speakers performance! Which means they wont work worth a **** off of h/u power. Which is exactly what we said! And if youre going to only get 1/6th of the performance with a head unit then why in the hell would you want to run it off the head unit?

Maybe they are great speakers but maybe theyre the English version of Pyle. Until they get out there and compete with the big boys, we wont know.

I dunno. Maybe Im just too sensitive.

audiobliss · April 2005

I didn't want to rant and rave about it, but I actually agree with ya.

MacLeod · April 2005

Well you know me. Never pass up a chance to rant about something. I need to have less opinions!

AustinKP · April 2005

Originally posted by MacLeod
Well you know me. Never pass up a chance to rant about something. I need to have less opinions!

Mac, when I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!
Thanks,
Austin

MacLeod · April 2005

Yeah right!

Like you havent learned much from me sharing my wisdom all the time!

neomagus00 · April 2005

HAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!

let's summarise:
-use 1 sub
-caps are bad
-more power is not always better
-boxes need no more than 4 sides
-no caps
-hair splitting is bad
-K.I.S.S.
-three miles per gallon maximum
-and finally, capacitors are the work of the devil

did i miss anything?

MacLeod · April 2005

You forgot caps!

And also that many have learned from my teachings.