any recommendations from the professionals?

LittleCar_w/12s

Ok, first off, that matrix of yours is really easy for a rectangular box to fit int, which is good, since you are new to this. I would most definitely make use of your brain and not your wallet here. Get yourself some reading off this internet, and learn how to build a simple box. you can use basic stuff or expensive saws, etc. This great little 1.2cf wedge-box under my computer was built for $10 and I used a DRYWALL saw to cut the MDF. Yeah, it took time, but the cost of that little hand-held saw is IN that $10. As well as the liquid nails you will use with the screws to seal and strengthen the joints. Felt will cost you $1.50 at a fabric store, and you can easilly color-match if you have a good Jo-Ann's Fabrics around.

Please, take this advice, it's worth your time, and you will be glad you learned how to biuld these.
-Jerry

jroberts_101

alright i will take ur advice and learn about makin boxes. but also- the gy who is hookin me up has the mm6 and the mmc6500, about 180 (6500) +20 shipped . forgot mm6 but its less. i still want rear speakers tho , how much worse are the db6500? i kno they are 100 - 300 watts rms / peak. lastly, u guys think the mm12 is any good compared to the mm2124 even tho it blows up all the time ? how is the enclosure from the factory? thanks a lot guys

John

exalted512

DBs are great for the price...but from what ive heard, if you can get the c6500s for $200--you should take em
hell, the mm6s for $190 from sounddomain is a steal IMO
i think the mm12 will serve you well...just give it around 450 watts
the boxes from the factory are some of the better prefab boxes out there
-Cody

jroberts_101

alright well i was wanting to get mm12's just cuz they had the factory made boxes, and so they probably have the best sound quality for that sub. also- that guy has great prices , but i dont know if i want to spend that much money for only 2 speakers! how much better will the mmc6500 or mm6 sound? and which do u guys recmmend out of the 2 ? thanks a lot. i dont want my mm12 if i get them instead of mm2124 to have smoking coils , and i also dont want them to screw up after a while because i wouldn't have any way to get new ones since they are from a single seller. i would use a c500.1 to power that sub, good idea?still not sure about using the mm12 instead of the mm2124. cuz those have no problems that i can find and they look sweet, only problem is that they have no prefab box from factory, and i want the best sound quality, dont want to get a **** box and have great subs and they dont sound good. also- u guys say make abox, but how would my no skills make a box that maximizes the sound quality!? i would think something made by professionals nearby at a store for (how much money??) would be better. thanks for ur help gys. more ppl needed for opinions !!

MacLeod

How much better will the MM6 sound? Well how much better is a BMW as opposed to a Chevy?

The MM6 is on a different level. It costs more for a reason. Superior materials and technology and WAY superior crossover.

Trust us on this one. Get the MM6 or MMC (both are awesome I just think the MM6 is a smidge smoother) and forget the rear speakers for now. Try it and see what you think. You can always add rear speakers later.

jroberts_101

ok ok i got ya lol but man...tell me in like non-technical terms, like how it sounds compared to each other? like say i turn it up loud...will it still be clear unless its a mm6 or mmc6500? and the watts around that far away...db6500=100/300...mmc6500=125/250, and mm6 150/250...what else can u tell me bout the subs too like i said above? and also- my speaker size is 6.5, and i think mm6 is 6.75?? or am i wrong? thanks guys sorry im newb.

MacLeod

The Momos will be more detailed, and smoother. Other than that they kind of sound the same tonally with the DB being a hint brighter or at least I thought so the few times Ive heard them.

A big drawback to the DB is their ho-hum x-over. It aint that grand and will affect SQ.

If youre unsure the MM6 will fit go for the MMC. It is an excellent speaker.

Momo subs sound great but Im not impressed by their durability. They tend to die prematurely. However if you ran them a good bit below their rated power you should be fine.

jroberts_101

alright thanks guys for your help. you act like its a great deal but im just lookin on ebay he's also a power seller so its a reputable source. but yea i am not sure about how these speakers will fit because the reason i was goin w/ db6500 before is a guy who has my car also said that they fit and all. i still not sure about the only having front speakers and not rear tho! i kno that u guys kno best im not denyin that. but still, i am not goin for a competition thing here, but i also want the best sounding cleanest , smoothest , etc at high sounds not harsh and distorted, while also having perfectly clear sound at any other volume below that. if i just got front speakers, rear u just disconnect or what? a c400.4 would overpower just 2 speakers wouldn't it? also- about what u said about the subs. underpower them, then they will be more reliable? i would have a c500.1 powering them (1 or 2? ) so would that be too much? i dont wanaa spend 300 (ebay) on 2 mm12 subs wwhich are discontinued and obviously (from this site) smoke coil and blow up randomly and take hella long to break in and even then arent broken in obviously. so i want to go w/ the mm2124 i think. THanks guys for all ur help...please answer all the questions/statements not just skip some cuz i would like to know em all thanks a lot guys

John

exalted512

i only saw one question...i would get the polk c300.2 before the 500.1--its cheaper and puts out the same power
as far as having rear speakers, heres why theyre bad--i did a bunch of research and typed it up on another forum...ill just copy and paste it here:
The reason they degrade sound quality is because they have different pathlength distance to your ears than the front speakers, therefore arriving at different times...this causes cancellation which doesnt help with sound quality or output
I dunno how you have your fronts set up...but im guessing theyre in stock locations except maybe the tweeter in sail panel or something...doors are not 'premium' for acoustics...they are neither good enclosures or good baffles. the sound from the rear speaker can come around through the numerous holes in your inner door and cancel out much of the sound coming off the front of the speaker because the 2 different sounds are 180 degrees out of phase
a friend of mine explains that effect best:
"Picture a speaker moving in slow motion:
When the cone moves out, it compresses the air in front of the cone, and decompresses the air behind the cone.
Without an enclosure - or at least a good baffle - the compressed air would simply bleed into the decompressed air, largely cancelling out any sound not pushed forward by simple on-axis momentum."
but you can modify the door...
but anyway, wavelengths get longer as frequencies get lower thus making the cancellation worse the lower you go...so it might sound fine in the higher frequencies but it wont have much midbass
the speaker could be hitting its x-max every few seconds but the speaker just cant 'seem' to make much bass
there is a simple solution...cross them over as high as you can...the solution IS NOT to add back speakers that can produce bass better...it will only cause the same problem
also...all cd's are recorded in 2-channel stereo...quadraphonic(sp?) lasted a few years in the 70s before it died out
you said you like them because "the acoustics of a concert hall allows the sound to bounce around"
well...
remember, short wavelengths do not go as far because they tend to degrade quicker..and long wavelengths travl very far
that being said...the only reflected frequencies you would only hear the frequencies that would last...which is why if you do run rear fill...get a bass blocker
also...in a concert hall and a real reflection...there would be much more of a delay for those reflected speakers to rear your head as in a FSC when the rear speakers are only 3 ft behind you...
in a car whose interior is made up a VERY reflective glass and plastic...if you only have front speakers...there will be sound that travels to the back...reflect offf the glass and travel forward again...which is a more 'realistic' of a live reflection than rear speakers which are not delayed at all
in a largely glass and plastic reflective car interior, if you only have front speakers, there will be sound that travels backwards, reflects off rear glass and travels forward... which is a better approximation of those live reflections than direct, non-delayed sound from rear speakers, but admittedly falls short of creating an ambiance of an interior larger than a car.
so i stick with my previous statement...dont run rear speakers...use the money you saved and buy a bad **** pair of comps for the front
-Cody

MacLeod

The 300.2 puts out 450x1 bridged while the 500.1 puts out over 600 watts at 2 ohms.

jroberts_101

wow lots of reading but i read it all and understand what you are saying. Sounds likea good argument. when u said get more bass in rear...ur sayin the mmc650 makes more bass than the db6500 in front? but other than that i understand the concept. and yea i got ya macleod about the amp im stickin w/ the 500.1. thanks a lot guys. last q- (for now hehe ) will just having mmc6500's in front. be better than db6500 and mmc650 in front and rear? like even sittin in the rear of the car it will sound better? or sound like its only comin from the front, which it would be, cuz i just disconnect rear right?? must have more opinons on mm12 /mm2124 problem too! thanks guys

exalted512

are you only getting 1 mm12?
in which case, the 300.2 will serve you better
-Cody

jroberts_101

man the guy who hookin me up cant get me mm12 since its discontinued. so i was askin ur opinons. help on answerin wat i asked b4 too? thanks guys

neomagus00

front speakers only, flat-out. if you're in the back seat of your own car, there's no reason you should be worrying about the music . but seriously, getting better speakers up front and none in the back will only help. it might sound different than what you've got now, but isn't that the idea?

since you can't get the mm12, go for the 2124, or two of them, whichever you prefer. then from what mac posted, you should get the 500.1 and send 300 watts to each... or get a 300.2 for each and watch the gains.

jroberts_101

haha nice joke there neomagus. i was askin about what u guys think i should get either the mm12 or mm2124. because the guy cant sell me them since they're discontinued, but i could find them from another seller on ebay, but i was askin ur opinions, is it unreliable, etc. the same guy who is hookin me up has the mmc6500 for sale! but not mm6. what do u think? how about mmc6500 in front, mmc650 in back now what do u think? but last thing about my first combo - db6500/mmc650, im only 16 so i mean would this be a just great combo anyway if i did decide to go w/ it? and would the mmc650 outbass the db6500? like would this sound just fine for a 16 yr old u think? sounds stupid, but im just tryin to show that i am not some professional competition person and just want the best quality sound want it to be better than anyone in my high school, etc. thanks again guys. last thing- the mmc650 has diff x-overs than the mmc6500? also, if the ratings of db6500 are so close to mmc6500 in peak / rms what are the real diffs, how does better x-over make nicer sound? thanks guys
edit: also- whats the diff between DVC and regular mm2124, and which is recommended?
John

exalted512

if you want the best sound quality, do not go with rear speakers...
id get a single mm12 and run it off a 300.2
mmc6500s would be great for the front
power rating has nothing to do with the quality of the speaker
theyre built better, sound better, the crossovers can be adjusted, etc
-Cody

spwuinmk67

It's already been said, and I'll say it again. Don't go with any rear speakers. They will only mess up your sound quality. The sound will hit you at different times then your front speakers. So go with either the MM6 or the MMC6500, you can get the MM6 for $190 on sounddomain, but might be a little tougher to install due to their size, so in that case, go with the MMC6500. As for sub(s), go with the MM2124, get the C500.1, you'll give it 350 watts, which should do just fine. I know the MM12 had a reputation for dieing with too much power, but I'm not sure about these, so rather play it safe then sorry by giving it 50 less then the RMS. Also, as far as why the MMC's or MM6's would be better then the DB's, they're made of higher quality materials, with mre options. For instance, you can adjust the MMC crossovers to what is the slope and point, and they also give you the option to bi-amp them.

jroberts_101

alright sweet thanks guys im actually convinced now i will do that then. sounds stupid tho, yea i got some nice front speakers, no rear haha but w/e. for rear passengers, **** sound quality? what do u do disconnect the rear speakers and leave em in there stock? so if i buy that c400.4 for the speakers, it will be overpowereing just 2 speakers? and yea im gonna try and get 2 mm2124's in a box powered by c500.1 so puts like 300 wats to each. thanks a lot guys u helped a real lot.
edit: wouldn't me having mmc6500's in the front and mmc650's in the rear sound great too? common sense=4 speakesrs is better than 2...so i think u guy's only complaint about my future setup is that the db6500's there are better speakers out there to get, so i get them but i still have good speakers in the rear too so it sounds great in the back as well. thanks again guys. just sounds stupid to have a half **** 2 speaker sound system w/ 2 big **** 12" subs.

John

AustinKP

Originally posted by jroberts_101
edit: wouldn't me having mmc6500's in the front and mmc650's in the rear sound great too? common sense=4 speakesrs is better than 2... just sounds stupid to have a half **** 2 speaker sound system w/ 2 big **** 12" subs.
John

John,

When I was first heard that it was desirable to have only front speakers, I was exactly the same way that you are. All cars come from the factory with at least 4 speakers. Having only 2 would sound funny, wouldn't it? In denial, I bought all four anyway. MM6's for the front, and the dB650's for the rear.

Then, I realized that music is recorded in two channels: Left and Right. All the rear speakers do is play the same thing the fronts are playing. Problem is, since the rears are farther away than the fronts, the sound hits your ears slightly later, causing slight cancellation and smearing the detail of your music, not to mention drawing your soundstage to the rear of the car. The word stereo implies two channels. That's why home stereos typically have only 2 speakers. If they have more, they are intended for 5.1 movies with surround sound.

This is why almost all competition systems have only front speakers. The lead singer is supposed to sound he's located right above the dashboard in the middle of the windshield, with the backups and drums to his sides, just like a real concert. Having rear speakers drags them to somewhere behind you in the middle of the car.

There is another advantage that I've found to this. Before I got my aftermarket sterero, I'd have the stereo turned up to a comfortable level, but since the rear passengers' heads were so much closer to the rear speakers, it'd be hurting their ears. Now, I can turn my music up much louder without worrying about it being to loud for passengers, since all the sound comes from the front.

In the end, you should obviously do what sounds best to you. You are, after all, the ultimate judge for YOUR setup. However, if you plan on competing, or desire an 'ideal' setup, you'd be wise to follow these guy's advice. They are sound suggestions, and have been proven in competition many times over.

-Austin

p.s. As I heard a wise man say (can't remember who on here): when the rear passengers start helping pay for your stereo, you can start worrying about rear speakers.

spwuinmk67

so if i buy that c400.4 for the speakers, it will be overpowereing just 2 speakers?

Which ever set you get, the MM6 or the MMC6500, you can bi-amp them. If its the MM6, then youll give them exactly what their rated at, where as the MMC6500 would be getting around 25 more then their rated. Their speakers seem to be more resiliant to over-powering then their subs, so this should be fine. Use the front channels, and send 75 watts to the tweeters. Then use the rear channel to send 75 watts to the mids. The amp has it's own crossover, so you dont need the crossover that came with either set, but the one on the MMC6500 is designed for bi-amping, so you can use that still.
Here's an option, unless you wanna keep everything polk, you could look for another amp. Depending on how much your getting the C400.4 for, you could save some money by going with something along the lines of Hifonics or MTX. You may be able to get similar, or better features for probably the same, or even less money.

neomagus00

so, to summarize-

get the mmc6500 if your hookup has them for less than $200, otherwise get the mm6 from www.sounddomain.com for about $200 total. get ONLY these speakers. not rears. sound quality is better without rears. your passengers in the back seat don't care about the sound quality - it's tuned for the driver (actually, cause of how i've got my speakers mounted, the passenger's imaging is totally screwed - like the voice is coming from the mirror OUTSIDE the car...). and don't worry about either of these sets being 'half-assed' sound - they will blow your doors off in the high-frequency area. at 100 Hz mine pull off 100 decibels, and that's with the top down.

like spunky said, the differences amongst speakers are not just related to power - indeed, power is one of the least important. truly, the only thing that can differentiate the db and the mmc/mm6 line is a listening test, and you'll have to trust us on this one, the mmc/mm6 sound way better than the db series.

if you can get the 400.4 at a discount, get it and biamp whatever components you've chosen. if you can't get it at a discount, tell us and we'll reccommend a different brand that would suit you as well.

lastly - NO REAR SPEAKERS!!! and once you get your stuff, come back and we'll help you set it up.

exalted512

and one more thing
NO REAR SPEAKERS
-Cody

jroberts_101

ok guys i emailed the guy about the mmc6500, so its in the works, i understand now that i shouldn't have rear speakers. so when austin kp said when the rear passengers start payin for the speakers then u can get them. that implies that if i had enough money then i should get them because it will sond better. also- should i just disconnect my rear speakers that are stock in there? and the c400.4 , c500.1 , mmc6500, 2 mm2124's should cost around 1110, b/c mmc6500 is 200 bucks shipped from him, while the db6500 / mmc650 were 120 _+ 80 shipped. so thats should be the same. I still want it to be really loud and yet still have great sql and sound better than anyone in this high school. thanks guys hope u can answer all these questions / comments. thanks again.

john

Joelsbass

Originally posted by jroberts_101
so when austin kp said when the rear passengers start payin for the speakers then u can get them. that implies that if i had enough money then i should get them because it will sond better.

actually you took that rather the wrong way... what that means is that you should only worry about your own soundstage, basically don't put something in that you're not going to benefit from...

jroberts_101

ha alright my bad. and even if they paid for the speakers it would make it sound worse to me, maybe a little better to them. thanks haha
peace

jroberts_101

2 questions- i read somewhere where someone i think macleod said- mmc6500 have big shoes to fill. did the fill em? cuz mm6 is on sounddomain for 190 right, and im gettin mmc6500 for 200 i think. so wat do u have to say about that? i also think its a good idea to have speakers that arent' gonna go out of production too, so u can always get new ones. but listen- i am reading around here and seeing that when people ask- what should i get in terms of speakers, subs, amps? and all u guys (even on polk site!!!!) never recommend anything im getting! explain! hehe thx

john

exalted512

if we dont recommend polk, theres 2 reasons
i recommend HiFonics b/c theyre cheaper amps than polk, Polk also only makes like...3 amps...3 amps isnt going to cover everyones needs
2. is that polk doesnt make anything high end enough to fill what they want
-Cody

Joelsbass

we'll all agree that with speakers though polk can't be beat in the price-range...

spwuinmk67

Everyone also likes to get a little nuts and creative sometimes. Especially when someone comes in and says "I want to put a system in my __________. I'm looking to spend around $______." Thats when the fun begins.

MacLeod

As far as the difference between the MM6 and MMC, from what I can tell the MM6 is a heavier duty speaker than the MMC. Also, the MM6 tweeter is all silk whereas the MMC is silk/polymer. Now I dont know squat about engineering and Im sure Im totally wrong but I like the all silk tweeter best.

Same with the mid. Its been my experience that good ol' polypropylene generally sounds the best. The new MMC uses carbon fiber. Thats not to say the MMC doesnt sound great, it does, its just that I perfer the MM6 a little more.

I would just go listen to a set but since nobody carries them anymore I havent heard one in over a year since Circuit City quit carrying them. :mad: