any recommendations from the professionals?

jroberts_101

hello im a new "member" here and i have a deal about to go down on a lot of polk stuff. I am getting polk db6500, for the front, mmc650's for the rear, and a c400.4 powering them. i am also getting a c500.1 amp, and a mm2124 sub (no box). I am thinking about asking for another sub because in total- this all is going to cost me 1025 shipped. is this a good deal? how am i in powering these, will the 2 amps (c4004 for speakers)(c500.1 subs) be enough and wont underpower? Please help me out here. 1025 shipped is the price (not 2 subs, only 1 mm2124) so its
>db6500
>mmc650
>c400.4
>c500.1
>mm2124

thanks for your help

John

neomagus00

i've never heard the difference between the db components and the momo coaxials... does anyone know if he'd be better off sticking the coaxes in the front and the components in the back or some such thing? maybe the comp mids in the rear and the tweets in the front?

barring that, is there a reason you're going with speakers all the way round? cause for the price of those two pairs you can get either the mm6 or the mmc6500. i have the mm6 and love it, i've never heard the mmc, ask macleod, i think he has. in addition to the better speaker, you'll get better detail. just a thought...

you're getting like 40% off retail, which is a great deal. since you're getting this good deal, consider upgrading to the mm124 or mm104... or a pair... at the least, i don't see why you shouldn't go for the pair of mm2124s. In all cases, i think that you'll really like what you're getting. but i vote to upgrade to mm6/mmc6500 and 2 mm124s. and 3 300.2s for the system - one for each sub, and one for the components. at your apparent 40% discount, this puts you at 1350 shipped, which is awesome for this setup...

jroberts_101

ok thank you very much for your reply. the reason i went w/ those speakers is because they were recommended to me, they fit in my car 6.5 inch speakers, the depth is right and everything. also- the guy who is giving me this deal, i dont think he has a full line of polk , so since he said he could get me this, i was fine w/ it and never thought about the system u talk about. also- i didnt ' upgrade to somethin like the mm124 (or mm12 same thing in box) b/c its discontinued now and he cant get it.!!! u guys didnt know that the mm12 was discontinued like recently. also, i read the reviews on it and it says many times that its **** and bad voice coil smoking and stuff like that, while the mm2124 was all great reviews. thanks again guys any other ppl who can help me?!

John

MacLeod

Go with the MMC6500 or MM6. They will sound noticeably better than the coaxials. The tweeter is upgraded from the coaxial and the x-over is many times better.

Personally I like the MM6 a little better, I think its a little smoother but Ive not heard it in a while. Either one will be a fantastic speaker!

neomagus00

certainly go with what you outlined initially if you can't get the uprated components - that is still a hell of a deal, and i'm confident you'll enjoy it greatly (i still say you should drop the rear speakers though, and at the very least save yourself some cash). i didn't think about the yellow momo series' coils, we have been hearing much about this, so staying with a pair of red momos is probably a good idea - i havent heard a thing about those babies going wrong.

jroberts_101

alright sounds good, ill email him about mm6, but can u tell me more about em? mm6 would just be for the rear? db6500 in front? so final question i think- will the 500.1 be enough to power the mm2124? (2)? cuz i was thinkin of goin 400.4 for speakers, plenty power right? and 500.1 for subs.

Thanks

MacLeod

Forget rear speakers altogether.

Get the MM6 and bi-amp it off the 400.4. You can use the amps x-overs. Front channels to the tweeters and rear channels to the mids.

The 500.1 puts out 350x1 at 4 ohms and the MM2124 is a 400 watt sub so youll be fine with that.

neomagus00

if you do what mac said you'll be even happier than with your original list, i should think. if you can, do that - especially the biamping bit (the 400.4 is made specifically to biamp the mm6!) or it sure acts that way...

MacLeod

One of the installers posted on here a while back that they designed the 400.4 to work specifically with the MM6. Active x-overs rule!

neomagus00

Originally posted by MacLeod Active x-overs rule! [/B]

word that, as my current search for inductors can attest to...

jroberts_101

alright thanks guys thats all good. what so i dont even get rear speakers at all?!?! also- theres 2 types of mm2124 to get. one says mm2124 and one says mm2124 dvc (dual voice coil)? whats the diff? so say i couldnt get these mm6 and stuff like that , and i got what i said orignally, would it still sound hella good? because im not into competition ****, but i want it to be sick sounding, like best around u kno. whats better ? 1 500.1 for subs, or 1 300.2 for subs? and someone i forget the s/n said a few posts ago that the 500.1 sends out 350 watts - while sub can handle 400. thats all good, but what if i have 2 mm2124's ??? then what?

thanks again,

John

MacLeod

Coustic has a nice one on Sounddomain Im looking real hard at. Was gonna get the 3 way for the 18 db bass boost but decided that bass boost is a bad thing so Ill go with the 2 way for my comps and leave my sub x-over duties to my amp.

I wish Alpine made x-overs.

neomagus00

in a standard stereo setup (i use stereo here in the technical sense, as in only 2 channels plus subs), rear speakers, if installed, are tuned such that their existence is barely noticeable. if you want to buy and install speakers you'll barely notice, at the expense of detail, go for it. now, for full theatre in the car, rear speakers are a must, and even then they're usually only activated for 5.1 channel sources, and deactivated for stereo sources.

on dvc - the DVC version will allow different wiring options. in order to reccommend which one you'll want you will have to decide how many drivers and what kind of drivers and amps you want.

amplification - this goes hand-in-hand with what kind of subs you pick. decide that first, then look at which amps go with the drivers youve chosen, which also has to do with the number of voice coils and their impedances

in other words, speaker choice, amps, and number of coils are all related, and should probably be chosen in that order and adjusted as needed.

jroberts_101

ok thanks for the info, but that why im here too cuz im a newbie at this stuff. so say i get 2 mm2124's . what amp to power them? or , what choice of mm2124 do i get? regular or dvc? thats my question for now, maybe u can help..also thanks for all this help in the first place this is a great helpful place.


John

MacLeod

If you get 2 MM2124, you can use the same amp. It puts out way over its rated 500 watts, more like 600+ so youll be sending 300 watts to each sub which will be fine. MM subs dont take well to overpowering anyway so this will probably be ideal.

If you can get the MM6 try for the MMC6500. Component speakers will ALWAYS sound better than their coaxial counterpart because of better x-overs and tweeters.

If you can only get the coaxials thatll be fine. They sound very good just not as good as the components. You can still bi-amp the coaxials cause they have dual terminals. Just be careful with the gains cause they wont take as much power as the comps.

If you have the room and money, get 2 single VC subs. If space and budget is of concern get 1 SVC sub. If you get a DVC sub this will put the amp in a 2 ohm load which will fry that sub with over 600 watts.

neomagus00

cool, glad to hear we're helping. okay, the mm2124dvc doesn't list the impedence of each coil, so i'm going to assume that it's 2 ohms. either sub takes 400 watts total. lets see... for either sub, i'd take the 300.2 bridged to each sub. this gives 450 watts (plus maybe 50 cause they're underrated a bit). so youd have to set the gains properly, but this headroom is good for the amp - it wouldn't be running at maximum output nearly ever, which is good because bridging is rough on an amp. this is really the only good option. the 500.1 doesn't match at all with any polk stuff, i don't know why they've given it the ratings they have... is this good? 2 300.2 amps for the pair of subs, then a 400.4 for the components (if you can get them, otherwise a third 300.2)?

and what mac meant to say is that if you CAN'T get the mm6, try for the mmc6500

MacLeod

I like the 2 MM2124's run off by a single 500.1. 300 watts each is about right for those things. Give em much more than 400 and theyll assume room temperature.

jroberts_101

Originally posted by MacLeod
If you can only get the coaxials thatll be fine. They sound very good just not as good as the components. You can still bi-amp the coaxials cause they have dual terminals. Just be careful with the gains cause they wont take as much power as the comps.

If you have the room and money, get 2 single VC subs. If space and budget is of concern get 1 SVC sub. If you get a DVC sub this will put the amp in a 2 ohm load which will fry that sub with over 600 watts.

ok i dont understand this part. 2 single vc subs? i have a toyota matrix hatchback so theres enough room for a double 12" enclosure box. when i need to put stuff in the trunk i figured i would just unplug the subs and put em in the garage while i haul the stuff around, then put em back in. so room is no problem, but i didnt want it to be huge. wat would u recommend, double box enclosure or single like 2 boxes in trunk? also--biamp the coaxials = ? and gains =

sorry for newbieness

thanks

John

neomagus00

it's cool, we were all there at some point... gains are essentially a volume control for the amplifier, telling it how much to amplify the given signal - note that this will never get you more power than the amp is rated for. there's a specific process for setting them, which i can give you if you want it.

biamp means to run separate amplification to the tweeters and to the midranges (the little and big speakers, respectively) rather than running a single, more powerful, channel through a device known as a passive crossover, which gives the high frequencies to the tweeter, and the low frequencies to the midrange, which makes the system sound better. coaxial speakers do the same thing, only the crossover (also referred to as the xover) on component speakers tends to be better. polk coaxials are cool because you don't have to use the xover, you can biamp the coaxial like you would a component system (where the tweeter is placed separately from the midrange).

for subs, it's best to build one big box that's essentially two smaller boxes that share a wall - that is, each sub has a wall separating it from the other.

jroberts_101

alright sounds good thanks for the info. also about the box- when i just get these sub speakers, where should i buy the box? how much will it be? thats lame they dont have the circuit city deal for by 2 mm2124 and get box free for 160 total. but yea i would be getting 2 subs w / no box so where would i get that sucker? is there such thing as having a sub sound better b/c its in a better enclosure? im talking sealed here, not ported or bypass or w/e....sealed. does it matter what type of box like if i bought from circuit city or some place online, wat would be the diff?

MacLeod

Each sub works best in a specific enclosure. Like the Orion P2 is best suited for a .5 box where a Polk MM is best in a .66.

Sealed boxes are the best for SQ.

Ported boxes sacrifice a little SQ for more output.

I like sealed best.

jroberts_101

alright thanks , so for the mm2124 get about a .66 size box, but i was also asking about what type of box, where to get it, which one will make the sub sound the best? thanks a lot.

John

MacLeod

Sealed sounds better and keep it as simple as possible. In other words, keep it from having as few wedges, bends and other irregularities as possible. Now a few wedges wont ruin the sound so if you have to dont sweat it.

Ideally, the perfect box is round but those arent easy to make so the closest you can come to a perfect cube will be best.

jroberts_101

ok but i dont think im making this box myself, i was thinkin about buying one cuz i have no skills at that stuff. where do u recommend i go?

MacLeod

I would check with some of your local shops. They will have installers that know a hell of a lot more about box building than I do and the tools to do it with. They can design a box specifically for your car and sub. It should cost from $150-250 depending on application.

exalted512

if at all possible, dont get prefab boxes, theyre not very good...
-Cody

jroberts_101

damn dude 150-250!?! thats so lame. my speakers \+ subs dont cost that much altogether! welll, almost ...hehe still that sucks. thanks for the info, i will do what u recommend, go to a local speaker shop thanks. adios

John

neomagus00

for sealed, at least, with some basic tools you can make your own box with relatively little effort; a table saw etc does make things a ton easier, but if you're patient and have a bit of skill with, say, a circular saw, you can do it for much less money

LethalLee

With 200 bucks i could make myself a competition show trunk enclosure with lights and an amp rack. I think u should buy a how-to speaker enclosure for about 30 bucks and build the box so u wont have to go back to buy prefab boxes again.

neomagus00

uh, he'd already realized that he shouldn't get prefab, that it should be homemade. and the issue was not a show installation, the issue was that he said he didn't want to or couldn't do it on his own; of course a shop will charge more than it would cost to do it yourself.

jroberts_101

alright guys that sounds good thanks for the help. i guess i will just go to a sound store and ask them if they can make a box that would be best for these subs, possibly just tell them the .66? size to make it. thanks again.

John