Venting… is it too much to ask a manufacturer?

VR3

Imo, you are expecting to much customer service for this specialty product and to fast of a turn around time.

It takes substantial time and effort to build low volume products.

treitz3

I dunno man. If you can't even get service before the sale and there is an issue with a used one, could you imagine the headache you will experience with a unit that's out of warranty (you had mentioned that the warranty is non-transferable)?

Not to mention, getting the same answer.....no idea when it will be repaired. I can envision the response now..."Can't talk right now, the entire company has COVID because a few people went to a show" - "No update on getting the parts for your used set. They may not even be repairable at this point."

Uh-huh. Honestly, I'd move along or put up with the wait frustration for a new set.

Tom

Joey_V

VR3 wrote: »

Imo, you are expecting to much customer service for this specialty product and to fast of a turn around time.

It takes substantial time and effort to build low volume products.

Really? A halo product and lackluster support?

Magico M2, I can get ahold of Peter Mackay via cell phone. If I bought an M9, I’d have Alon’s cell phone. For the HE1, there should be better and more integrated support. My feeling is honestly they have this unit on the back burner.

My expectation is that the specialized HE1 sales team would know if their production line has an issue with parts availability well before they’d engage in me in a 2 1/2 month email chain that honestly could’ve been done in a single phone call.

Joey_V

treitz3 wrote: »

I dunno man. If you can't even get service before the sale and there is an issue with a used one, could you imagine the headache you will experience with a unit that's out of warranty (you had mentioned that the warranty is non-transferable)?

Not to mention, getting the same answer.....no idea when it will be repaired. I can envision the response now..."Can't talk right now, the entire company has COVID because a few people went to a show" - "No update on getting the parts for your used set. They may not even be repairable at this point."

Uh-huh. Honestly, I'd move along or put up with the wait frustration for a new set.

Tom

You are a voice of reason.

VR3

All I am saying is, there is no dedicated team dedicated to this product line in the sense there is a group of employees that are dedicated to it. There may be a group of people tasked with the design, construction and support that do many many other tasks and it most likely is but a very small part of their job description.

When I order stuff like this alebit not like a 60k set of headphones but a low volume built by probably one or two people type thing, I expect a minimum 6 month turn around in msot cases.

Now having customer support emails answered in 72 hours is nice but sometimes place like that may only do it once a week.

I just think considering who sennheiser is, the fact they even offer this product is amazing. To expect them to provide chick fila service on an item that doesn't even register on their balance sheet makes little sense to me.

Joey_V

VR3 wrote: »

All I am saying is, there is no dedicated team dedicated to this product line in the sense there is a group of employees that are dedicated to it. There may be a group of people tasked with the design, construction and support that do many many other tasks and it most likely is but a very small part of their job description.

When I order stuff like this alebit not like a 60k set of headphones but a low volume built by probably one or two people type thing, I expect a minimum 6 month turn around in msot cases.

Now having customer support emails answered in 72 hours is nice but sometimes place like that may only do it once a week.

I just think considering who sennheiser is, the fact they even offer this product is amazing. To expect them to provide chick fila service on an item that doesn't even register on their balance sheet makes little sense to me.

Your assessment of the situation is a bit off I think.

There is an HE1 team that takes orders and answers all questions. The same team handles the repairs and service and post sales tasks. Every time I emailed them, 50% of the time I get a auto generated “we will be back in 1 weeks due to blah blah blah”

If you cannot staff your halo product, then don’t offer a halo product.

This isn’t a Chick-fil-A order. This is their product that they say is the end all be all, if they are that serious about the components that go into it, they should be serious about the service that surrounds it. Everything about it should be bespoke.

No one on headfi could even give me a straight answer about their experience. It seems like I’m nearly alone in this endeavor. It’s so unfortunate because all I want is to have the anti speaker system for when I want to listen to a different sonic presentation.

Maybe they’ll resume operations and contact me. I’ll just sit tight and keep funds somewhat free.

VR3

At work, 99% of my job is a project manager for managing construction projects.

.01% is helping the inspection team with inspection report questions.

I hear what you are saying, but I assure you, the HE1 Team is the .01%

Joey_V

VR3 wrote: »

At work, 99% of my job is a project manager for managing construction projects.

.01% is helping the inspection team with inspection report questions.

I hear what you are saying, but I assure you, the HE1 Team is the .01%

In that case, don’t offer the halo product then.

VR3

Alot of companies offer flagship products to make statements and push the envelope. That's what drives things forwards.

In most instances the technology that was discovered developing the statement piece is trickled down to lower tier products. It makes sense to develop from the top down then from the bottom up.

The bottom is what generates real profit and revenue.

The hand full of HE1 setups they sell every year may just go back into the engineering budget to keep pushing the envelope, who knows.

I like when companies make statement products, obviously you do to.

marvda1

Joey, I think you are burning too much brain power, probably for less than half the $60k you could have a dream collection of top headphones.

Emlyn

I see reviews online for the system going back as far as 2015 so this is not exactly a new product. R&D was likely paid for a decade ago. Might just be a marquee unobtainium product that attracts attention at shows these days with not much real interest in producing more.

Joey_V

Emlyn wrote: »

I see reviews online for the system going back as far as 2015 so this is not exactly a new product. R&D was likely paid for a decade ago. Might just be a marquee unobtainium product that attracts attention at shows these days with not much real interest in producing more.

2017 was really when it was coming out.

I don’t get why they bring these demo units to canjam and have us make appointment slots ahead of time which all inevitably run out. Everyone who listens oohs and aahs.

Then a couple come along and say we are actually interested in one.

Funny, in my slot there were three of us. 2 reviewers and me. They were talking amongst themselves - no one buys these, who would be crazy enough to do it? I was first up to listen, after I listen - “I think I’m interested.”

nooshinjohn

I hear Costco is having a huge sale on some Humble Pie…

F1nut

Looks much better, IMO. Reports are it sounds better too.

nooshinjohn

Agreed... this is from a review.

Of course, the final question to be answered is whether it is worth it or not. Frankly speaking, the price tag of the HE-1 is so ludicrous that it doesn’t even register to me. I’d rather have a great speaker set-up with room treatment along with the second-best headphone system in the world, whatever that may look like. And even then, I’d probably still have a healthy chunk of change left over. But I’m not Sennheiser’s target audience. Realistically speaking, the HE-1 is for people who are considering adding another Porsche to their car collection but are maybe looking around for some other luxury experience to enrich their lives.

Jetmaker737

I'm with you, Joey. Shelling out that kind of coin you should expect butt-kissing type of sales, service and support. It appears Sennheiser does not understand. Or possibly these phones were a vanity project of some executive who got his big bonus and moved on. Maybe they gutted the team leaving lesser chumps stuck with sales and servicing them. Probably piled onto an existing workload. I've seen similar in my corporate experience.

Joey_V

Jetmaker737 wrote: »

I'm with you, Joey. Shelling out that kind of coin you should expect butt-kissing type of sales, service and support. It appears Sennheiser does not understand. Or possibly these phones were a vanity project of some executive who got his big bonus and moved on. Maybe they gutted the team leaving lesser chumps stuck with sales and servicing them. Probably piled onto an existing workload. I've seen similar in my corporate experience.

That’s what I’m thinking.

I really hope it’s not an afterthought since sonovo took over. It truly is a spectacular unit. Really hits the heart when listening.

When I was talking to the HE1 team - they said something that really resonated with me. They said this is your love letter to music, and that’s what I mulled over for weeks.

Joey_V

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Agreed... this is from a review.

Of course, the final question to be answered is whether it is worth it or not. Frankly speaking, the price tag of the HE-1 is so ludicrous that it doesn’t even register to me. I’d rather have a great speaker set-up with room treatment along with the second-best headphone system in the world, whatever that may look like. And even then, I’d probably still have a healthy chunk of change left over. But I’m not Sennheiser’s target audience. Realistically speaking, the HE-1 is for people who are considering adding another Porsche to their car collection but are maybe looking around for some other luxury experience to enrich their lives.

Completely agree. I already have the speaker system. I wanted something I could use when I didn’t want to fire up the rig.

I think they have 2 audiences for this.
1. The excessively rich looking for a trophy.
2. The audio nutcase aka fool.

I’m one of their two target audience - the crazy audio nutcase, not the rich one.

If this was a trophy for me, then I wouldn’t have had to mull over the reasons or rationalize why I want to purchase one. I want one because I think it allows me another way to truly enjoy my nightly relaxing sessions. If it gives me that kind of peace and solace, then to me it is worth it. That’s how I came to agreeing to the purchase. Nothing better than after a long day, I know I can fire up the HE1 and for a couple hours, I’m just riding the Tidal wave or whatever I have on the analog rig.

Of course, now I have to yet again wait for their go ahead.

I think I will check out their competition - Stax. And see what it does for me over the short term. Maybe it’ll be good enough that it renders the last 2-5% null and void. Maybe it won’t.

daddyjt

This thread is the literal definition of a first world problem…

You’ve answered your own question numerous times. If the service (lack there of) really irks you as much as you claim, how could you possibly entertain giving them your business??

Viking64

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I hear Costco is having a huge sale on some Humble Pie…

If someone put a 50% deposit down on these, they would be . . . wait for it . . . 30K in the hole!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdXjm8pZMws

displayname

Joey_V wrote: »

VR3 wrote: »

Imo, you are expecting to much customer service for this specialty product and to fast of a turn around time.

It takes substantial time and effort to build low volume products.

Really? A halo product and lackluster support?

Magico M2, I can get ahold of Peter Mackay via cell phone. If I bought an M9, I’d have Alon’s cell phone. For the HE1, there should be better and more integrated support. My feeling is honestly they have this unit on the back burner.

My expectation is that the specialized HE1 sales team would know if their production line has an issue with parts availability well before they’d engage in me in a 2 1/2 month email chain that honestly could’ve been done in a single phone call.

Joey, I really think you are too focused on your world vs their world here.
In your world, this is the pinnacle of sound and well worth a substantial portion of your income.

In there world this is a marketing stunt that has already run it's course and they've moved on.

You can get Peter on the phone because Magico brings in $15.5M in revenue. The M2 equates to 0.5% of their total revenue. That's significant and worth their time to keep you happy.
On the Senn side, they bring in about $5.5 BILLION in revenue. Their products that cost under $500 likely account for more than 50% of that. The HE1 accounts for 0.001% of their annual revenue. AND it's a one time sale, and they have to deal with you - instead of their normal model which involves only dealing with 1 distributor who handles thousands of customers for them.

Senn doesn't want to deal with you. They don't want their engineers spending time on this. This is not a profit center for them. They likely only needed 10 units to break even on the entire project - which gets into the halo aspect of this.

A Halo product is created to lift the full brand. They still bring these to CanJam because 99.99% of attendees will never in their life even consider buying the HE1, let alone have the funding to do so.
HOWEVER after they hear the HE1, they are now tied to the brand. Aka "the brand halo effect."
The experience with the HE1 probably sells thousands of HD 800s, and the press they get from everyone that shares the experience of the HE1, that probably sells millions of HD 600s - people just looking to get a taste.

But the HE1 is done. It's not a real product anymore. From it's inception, it kind of never was. It's a marketing piece that could be sold. It'll probably still be demoed around for another 5-10 years, but unless you become a significant shareholder in the company, or the CEO of one of their top distributors... they aren't going to give you the time of day to make you one. While $60K is a lot of money to any single person... to a $5.5B corp, it means nothing.

VR3

Thank heavens someone understands!

Nex

You do know that your ears don't get better with time? My system is good enough for 5kish. No HD ears or eyes.

Joey_V

@displayname
@VR3

Now I understand.

I never really had a shot at this product. A lure. It was a worm at the end of the fishing line all along.

A sense of sadness has overcome me.

Joey_V

Basically the unit was never intended for common sale, and it is to lure people to the brand. Add a halo effect.

But in essence, they were able to lure me and now I have been lured - they cannot complete the sale because they probably hadn’t expected this to sell in the first place.

Great.

nooshinjohn

How can you possibly be saddened by keeping 60k in your pocket? If you want to really feel good, how about helping out St. Jude's, or another worthy cause? My kid's college fund would be more than thankful!

Joey_V

nooshinjohn wrote: »

How can you possibly be saddened by keeping 60k in your pocket? If you want to really feel good, how about helping out St. Jude's, or another worthy cause? My kid's college fund would be more than thankful!

Haha
To be specific, it wasn’t 60, it’s 70 plus tax.
I’m saddened because after a lot of discussion with friends and audio hobbyists, and after introspection for 8 weeks while I waited for email responses - I asked myself, what do I really want out of this hobby and why do i do it?

The answer was - it’s because I really really like listening to music the way I think sounds good.

And after a long day at work, I like nothing more than to relax in front of my music and system.

This headphone system was beyond another component upgrade, this was beyond a new turntable or a reel to reel player - this was a new way to experience music at a level that I felt rivaled my system and in some ways beat it. How could I say no to a system that I could take down to my dinner table when I’m eating alone at night after a work shift, while reading stereophile or perusing the forums? I can’t do that with my Magicos. If I wanted to really hear into the mix more than I can with my stereo system - why not with these headphones? I can look down and not be focused on keeping my head in sweet spot and not have the soundstage shift. If there was a track that I wasn’t too familiar with - I can contrast and compare timbre between my system and the HE1. There are so many things can be done with a headphone system that sounds this unbelievably good.

If it costs me 75k but it gives me peace and lets me forget the day and enables me to function at a consistently high level at my work and at home - 75k can be spent in much worse ways.

Thats why I was ok with this spend. Over time I have realized that my audio habit has allowed me to function in life (bottom line - it has prevented physician burn out for example).

Kex

Joey_V wrote: »

… It truly is a spectacular unit. Really hits the heart when listening.

When I was talking to the HE1 team - they said something that really resonated with me. They said this is your love letter to music, and that’s what I mulled over for weeks.

Maybe you’re also forgetting the Bugatti effect… the rarity. You don’t get to choose when your Bugatti is delivered.

Similarly, if you decided you want a Rolls Royce, nobody will ever convince you that a Mercedes-Benz S-Class is a better, more sensible, cheaper car to run. In fact, they won’t even be able to convince you that a BMW 7-Series is a better choice, even though BMW owns Rolls Royce.

That’s just how such exclusive products work. The product is listed as unavailable on their website. They’ve told you that they’re willing to entertain a sale to you. Perhaps you should count yourself lucky?

If you can accept the wait, the product may be yours, and it may be worth it. If you cannot accept the wait, the product will never be yours, and maybe you’ll also wonder if you made a mistake by not waiting.

Joey_V

True.

So I guess the other question is

If they offer it for sale to me, do I still buy it?

treitz3

Joey_V wrote: »

Over time I have realized that my audio habit has allowed me to function in life.

I can relate to that. If it weren't for this hobby, I'd probably be in jail for redrum'ing my newest client. I don't care what type of day I have had or how much stress was put upon me...as soon as that first note strikes?

All my worries just wither away. After a few minutes? Bad day? Naw, man. It's a WONDERFUL day!!! 😀

Music really does calm the savage beast.

Tom