The EV Hate Thread
Comments
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I don't foresee that ending well for them.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I wish everyone in the frozen tundra many high CCA's
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
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Not my photo (taken from Twitter) but this is an emergency alert sent out maybe a couple of weeks ago? Alberta had extreme weather, and while I'm on the other side of Canada, eh, it's still concerning.
With our government banning home heating oil and internal combustion engine vehicles, what in God's name are people supposed to do when something like this happens? Seriously, if our grid can't even handle the current electrical demand during a storm, what happens when people are charging their cars and using electric heat?
And keep in mind, those people running heat pumps aren't using them in this weather, rather the emergency heat strips in their air handlers (if they have forced air), which is basically just your oven heating element but larger and there's multiple of them.
No backup battery or even generator could handle that. No way we're prepared for this. -
They are having some issues with those electric school busses across the pond. Something like them catching on fire , but, ya know, it's only children that they carry so no concerns.HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
Really the crux of this is that unfortunately our battery technology isn't advanced enough yet. We need batteries that will power vehicles for longer ranges in severe cold. I'm no luddite relative to this, for example I use an extensive solar array to power my camper when I have no shore power (no fossil fuel generator). I don't want to hear a generator and solar keeps my batteries (dual 6 volt lead/acid) at 100% in snow, clouds, and rain. Now folks are starting to adopt lithium ion batteries for campers (lighter, more powerful, faster charging etc., but you can't charge them at temps below freezing (sigh...when we often use the camper...). We need better batteries. We've been sitting on our hands.
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Electrochemistry and thermodynamics aren't really too friendly to the cause of lightweight, rapid-charging, safe, environmentally benign, high energy density batteries.
Be very leery of purported breakthroughs or pending breakthroughs -- especially from start-ups eager to lure investors.
e.g., the old rule of thumb for chemical kinetics -- and a very useful one at that: a 10 degree Celsius decrease in temperature will decrease the rate of a chemical reaction by a factor of two.
The electrochemical reactions that "power" batteries are, in fact, chemical, involving ionization (transfer of electrons from donor to acceptor). -
When they develop a thylakoid/chlorophyll based battery, I'll listen.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Minnesota is getting electric school buses and electric fire trucks. I am starting to see new Amazon trucks coming through the neighborhood that are electric. Peace. D
I'm pretty sure wintertime and ev tech aren't a good mix. My guess is you get
about an hour runtime in january. Didn't Detroit try this and it failed big time
with school buses? Fire trucks. Someone's going to die. A pumper running
out of juice in the middle of a fire won't be good."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
This reminds me that one the greatest inventions in the history of mankind is - the wood burning stove.
Not my photo (taken from Twitter) but this is an emergency alert sent out maybe a couple of weeks ago? Alberta had extreme weather, and while I'm on the other side of Canada, eh, it's still concerning.
With our government banning home heating oil and internal combustion engine vehicles, what in God's name are people supposed to do when something like this happens? Seriously, if our grid can't even handle the current electrical demand during a storm, what happens when people are charging their cars and using electric heat?
And keep in mind, those people running heat pumps aren't using them in this weather, rather the emergency heat strips in their air handlers (if they have forced air), which is basically just your oven heating element but larger and there's multiple of them.
No backup battery or even generator could handle that. No way we're prepared for this.
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^^^^
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This reminds me that one the greatest inventions in the history of mankind is - the wood burning stove.
Not my photo (taken from Twitter) but this is an emergency alert sent out maybe a couple of weeks ago? Alberta had extreme weather, and while I'm on the other side of Canada, eh, it's still concerning.
With our government banning home heating oil and internal combustion engine vehicles, what in God's name are people supposed to do when something like this happens? Seriously, if our grid can't even handle the current electrical demand during a storm, what happens when people are charging their cars and using electric heat?
And keep in mind, those people running heat pumps aren't using them in this weather, rather the emergency heat strips in their air handlers (if they have forced air), which is basically just your oven heating element but larger and there's multiple of them.
No backup battery or even generator could handle that. No way we're prepared for this.
No doubt about it. I mean sure one could argue against it and yeah it has flaws, but in the dead of winter? Go out in your backyard, cut down a tree, and it'll heat your home forever.
No worries about gas line problems, electrical outages, oil refills, or any sort of electronic/mechanical failure.
They'd rather push heat pumps (which I love by the way, will definitely put one in my house whenever that ends up being) as if they're this amazing thing and complete substitute when in reality they're air conditioners with heating function down to a certain temperature, and they rely on the electrical grid to not mess it's britches in high demand.
It's getting ridiculous. And solar is harming our electrical grid. They're pushing it like crazy yet if you're not paying for electricity from the power company, then you're also not paying for grid maintenance. Grid maintenance is the majority of your electric bill. Throw everyone on solar and who is paying to keep the grid in shape?
The green agenda is very poorly thought out. -
Truth!!!The green agenda is very poorly thought out.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
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I know this is the EV hate thread, but this is a decent read.
Wall Street Journal: You’ve Formed Your Opinion on EVs. Now Let Me Change It.
I’ve included the full text below for those who don’t want to use the link.You’ve Formed Your Opinion on EVs. Now Let Me Change It.
Frozen Teslas, unsold inventory piling up at dealerships, production woes—yet sales of electric vehicles still continue to rise. Dan Neil is here to address all your EV fears and doubts.
Last week, when temperatures in the Midwest plummeted, some Tesla Supercharger stations in the Chicago area were rendered inoperative, leaving owners frozen to their cars for many hours. Tesla-pops.
If you saw that and wondered why any sane person would ever want an electric car, I’m here to tell you, it’s not always easy. I mean, those scenes in Chicago looked like something out of Dante. Skeptics are right to call out EV batteries’ vulnerability to cold, which cuts into range. It’s also true that many EVs fall short of their EPA-estimated range. Battery fires, glitchy software, unsold EVs piling up at dealerships, major losses for legacy automakers—all true.
And yet, people keep buying them. Sales of plug-equipped passenger vehicles grew 31% in 2023 to claim more than 15% (14.2 million) of the global passenger-car market, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance. Battery electric vehicles (BEVs) accounted for about 70%, with plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) and a smattering of fuel-cell vehicles making up the rest.
For the year, Tesla sold 1.8 million vehicles, making the American company the most popular EV brand in the world. But in a sign of things to come, Chinese automaker BYD surpassed Tesla in EV sales in the last quarter.
Stateside, sales of pluggable vehicles grew 50% in 2023, to about 1.4 million. In Q4 BEV sales hit a record 8.1% market share, with Tesla accounting for about half. Notably, the market share of PHEVs—often cited as a bridge technology between gas and electric propulsion—has flatlined in the U.S.
Encouraged by consumer demand and policy support in major markets, the International Energy Agency’s 2023 Global EV Outlook projects that battery-electric vehicles (BEVs) will account for 36% of global passenger-car sales by 2030, up 22% from the previous year’s projection.
Sure, most of that is China, now both the world’s biggest car market and auto exporter. The U.S. constitutes about 11% of the passenger-car market. But it hardly matters. By dint of sheer scale, China now determines the auto industry’s direction and macroeconomics. Where they go we go.
It’s also clear from my inbox that many are overly invested in the FUD—fear, uncertainty and doubt—about vehicle electrification. I’ll get to that.
But, as a shortcut to common ground, I always encourage EV skeptics to just drive one. Then we’ll talk. The consumer experience is superior: quicker, quieter, more refined and responsive, more efficient, more connected and cheaper to operate than its gas-powered equivalent. The market demand is organic, the desire real and nonideological. After a few miles in an EV, going back to internal combustion feels like returning to whale-oil lamps.
Some of my fellow travelers suspect there must be a conspiracy to trash-talk electrification in the media, funded by Big Oil. I take a contrary view: It didn’t take a conspiracy to make EVs look bad. The first generation of cars—the Nissan Leaf, the Chevy Bolt, the BMW i3—were compromised by a lack of range (low energy density) and the inadequacy of public charging. God knows, I’ve been there. Electrify America, on behalf of early adopters: Bite me.
In retrospect, the pessimism also represented a failure of communication. Legacy automakers should have made clear at the outset that EVs were short-range commuter cars, designed to be charged overnight at home, not on the frozen tundra of Illinois. Hindsight being 20/20, automakers should have emphasized residential charging first.
Nor have Ford or GM’s efforts thus far inspired a lot of confidence. GM’s Ultium system—the core of a new family of mass-market EVs—has been plagued by production delays. Ultium has other issues, too, including low energy density and high cost. Together these elements produce the GMC Hummer EV, a monster truck weighing 9,000 pounds and costing six figures. It’s as if they were trying to give EVs a bad name.
Ford’s fumbling of its F-150 Lightning pickup was also pretty hard to watch. The finished product, when it came, looked like Tarzan but hit like Boy, badly underperforming when it came to doing trucky things, like trailering boats in cold weather.
So, sure, the heartland remains decidedly undecided. Baby, it’s cold outside.
But the weather is about to change. This year, incentives built into the Inflation Reduction Act—allowing consumers to claim tax credits at the point of sale, for example—are expected to spur consumer demand. Meanwhile, some legacy automakers are finding their product-design feet. BMW reported that EVs accounted for 20% of its 2023 volume and almost all its sales growth.
If you think EVs are too expensive, just wait. The mother of price wars is coming consumers’ way, as Tesla continues to leverage its low production costs to undercut the competition. Tesla watchers also expect the company to unveil its long-awaited Model 2 later this year, with a similarly long-awaited $25,000 price tag.
Charging: After a decade of self-sabotage, most automakers decided last year to adopt Tesla’s NACS charging standard in the U.S., which will allow their customers to use Tesla’s robust Supercharging network, like civilized people. Meanwhile, the Biden administration is targeting a half-million public fast chargers in the field by 2030. Pretty soon range anxiety will be returned to neurotics.
Some FUD is simply out of date. For example, the prohibitively high cost of batteries. In 2023 alone, lithium battery pack prices fell 14%, according to Bloomberg NEF’s Zero Emissions Vehicle Factbook—a tenth of where it stood a decade ago. The race to the bottom on cost will also eliminate the use of battery tech’s most problematic material: cobalt. Advanced lithium-iron phosphate (LFP) batteries use no cobalt and have a lot of other agreeable properties, too, including being more durable, less flammable and cheaper.
The most pernicious FUD may be the idea that EVs can’t move the needle on carbon emissions. They already are. EV adoption cut demand for oil by 1.8 million barrels in 2023, according to BloombergNEF, thereby avoiding 122 megatons of carbon-dioxide emissions.
I know they’re not for everybody, but as for me, you can have my EV when you pry it from my cold, frostbitten fingers.Alea jacta est! -
https://www.theblaze.com/news/we-re-pressing-pause-on-evs-city-s-5-million-electric-bus-fleet-breaks-down
Take note of the expense for just maintenance.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Grid maintenance is the majority of your electric bill. Throw everyone on solar and who is paying to keep the grid in shape?
Your still paying for grid maintenance if you have solar, it's called a meter charge🤦🏻♂️.
Unless you're completely OFF the grid you're still paying for the maintenance of said grid.
In fact if you have solar panels you're putting electricity onto the grid. You build credits for those days in the winter when your panels are not producing enough for YOUR use, you then pull from the credits. Unless your solar company severely under estimated your use (very unlikely) as you must show a years worth of your use and then they build for 10% more. In the spring all those "credits" are given to the power company, so yea they want folks to go solar and produce electricity for them. -
Grid maintenance is the majority of your electric bill. Throw everyone on solar and who is paying to keep the grid in shape?
Your still paying for grid maintenance if you have solar, it's called a meter charge🤦🏻♂️.
Unless you're completely OFF the grid you're still paying for the maintenance of said grid.
In fact if you have solar panels you're putting electricity onto the grid. You build credits for those days in the winter when your panels are not producing enough for YOUR use, you then pull from the credits. Unless your solar company severely under estimated your use (very unlikely) as you must show a years worth of your use and then they build for 10% more. In the spring all those "credits" are given to the power company, so yea they want folks to go solar and produce electricity for them.
Is it different for you guys?
Up here, you don't pay a meter charge, infact Nova Scotia Power tried to implement one and it got heavy backlash from the public and government, so they retracted it.
They do keep credits, but it's indefinite. So if I had 3,500 kWh left over at the end of the year, it carries into the next. -
They are changing the rules. They aren't paying sh@t for your solar power
into the grid. Utility companies will be mandating that you store it on site.
So you need the panels and a battery bank. Most likely the equipment
Won't last long enough to pay for itself. The batteries are $$$ and last
8 years if you are lucky."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Credits are not indefinite here where I live. I cannot speak for the other 49 states. I can see that once more and more people get panels they charge you to put it back on the grid.
Yes the batteries are very expensive and the years it will take to recoup the cost can be very prohibited.
Like a lot in life, nothing is free. -
Not surprised in the least.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Dude, hate to have to tell you this, but I think you might have a glitch in your Matrix.^^^^
Post edited by msg onI disabled signatures. -
Grid maintenance is the majority of your electric bill. Throw everyone on solar and who is paying to keep the grid in shape?
Your still paying for grid maintenance if you have solar, it's called a meter charge🤦🏻♂️.
Unless you're completely OFF the grid you're still paying for the maintenance of said grid.
In fact if you have solar panels you're putting electricity onto the grid. You build credits for those days in the winter when your panels are not producing enough for YOUR use, you then pull from the credits. Unless your solar company severely under estimated your use (very unlikely) as you must show a years worth of your use and then they build for 10% more. In the spring all those "credits" are given to the power company, so yea they want folks to go solar and produce electricity for them.
Is it different for you guys?
Up here, you don't pay a meter charge, infact Nova Scotia Power tried to implement one and it got heavy backlash from the public and government, so they retracted it.
They do keep credits, but it's indefinite. So if I had 3,500 kWh left over at the end of the year, it carries into the next.
No credits, nothing here in Ontario, Hydro One. We just pay up the wazoo. Our hydro bill is roughly $200 mth and goes up in the summer with the ac and pool pump. Note that our house is only 9 yrs old everything is LED and HE. We are heated by NG. -
Grid maintenance is the majority of your electric bill. Throw everyone on solar and who is paying to keep the grid in shape?
Your still paying for grid maintenance if you have solar, it's called a meter charge🤦🏻♂️.
Unless you're completely OFF the grid you're still paying for the maintenance of said grid.
In fact if you have solar panels you're putting electricity onto the grid. You build credits for those days in the winter when your panels are not producing enough for YOUR use, you then pull from the credits. Unless your solar company severely under estimated your use (very unlikely) as you must show a years worth of your use and then they build for 10% more. In the spring all those "credits" are given to the power company, so yea they want folks to go solar and produce electricity for them.
Is it different for you guys?
Up here, you don't pay a meter charge, infact Nova Scotia Power tried to implement one and it got heavy backlash from the public and government, so they retracted it.
They do keep credits, but it's indefinite. So if I had 3,500 kWh left over at the end of the year, it carries into the next.
No credits, nothing here in Ontario, Hydro One. We just pay up the wazoo. Our hydro bill is roughly $200 mth and goes up in the summer with the ac and pool pump. Note that our house is only 9 yrs old everything is LED and HE. We are heated by NG.
Our house is heated with oil and same with you, everything is LED, HE, and Energy Star. We use well water and septic though. Fortunately our bills aren't up the wazoo, but we do pay about $200-$400 for electricity, that's bi-monthly though. -
And, because I like this topic so much, I'll add yet another small rant.
We don't stop hearing the end of "go solar!" and "go electric!" and as much as my Dad and I would love to, the renovations required to successfully switch (new meter, service panel, upgrades to meet code, drywall, more electrical, the heat pumps, the roof would need to be changed, etc etc) would, no joke, end up running us about $50,000.
So I've just decided that since I'll be living with my parents indefinitely, once I get accepted into my electrical course, and become an apprentice, I'll start working on that slowly as I gain knowledge. And since I work at a hardware store, I get everything at COST.
Oh yeah and I'll add: My subjective experience with the grid infrastructure? I called NS Power to ask about panel upgrade costs. They'd need to change the single transformer that powers all 4 homes on our private lane because it's only 50kVA, which means that it just barely handles all of 4 homes on a 125A service each. Then they'd need to change the lines and that would cost a TON.
So now, other than all of the hurdles for us to change over, my question is how on earth is this feasible for everywhere. The electrician at work was telling me 400A seems very common now in the suburbs due to EV chargers and electric heat. Once again, we are totally screwed, at least here in Canada.
Last thing. Our government has a green energy pledge and lists nuclear energy as green energy. We still use mainly fossil fuels (coal and oil) to generate our electricity. So why not nuclear? Because our government prohibits it in our legislation. Yeah. Green agenda? Baloney. -
Or it's cats by Xerox.
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The transformer outside my house is 125kva ( our subdivision lines are all underground). It can only accommodate 6 residences that go solar and put energy back to the grid, each one handles 8-10 houses.They'd need to change the single transformer that powers all 4 homes on our private lane because it's only 50kVA, which means that it just barely handles all of 4 homes on a 125A service each. Then they'd need to change the lines and that would cost a TON.
For your electric company to switch out the transformer to accommodate solar shouldn't be on you individually (it's not here) it's on the company to upgrade to support the infrastructer. Here there's a charge per user per bill something like 0.0000## to support upgrades, it's like .12 cents or less per month depending also on energy usage. -
The transformer outside my house is 125kva ( our subdivision lines are all underground). It can only accommodate 6 residences that go solar and put energy back to the grid, each one handles 8-10 houses.They'd need to change the single transformer that powers all 4 homes on our private lane because it's only 50kVA, which means that it just barely handles all of 4 homes on a 125A service each. Then they'd need to change the lines and that would cost a TON.
For your electric company to switch out the transformer to accommodate solar shouldn't be on you individually (it's not here) it's on the company to upgrade to support the infrastructer. Here there's a charge per user per bill something like 0.0000## to support upgrades, it's like .12 cents or less per month depending also on energy usage.
I didn't mean to indicate the transformer would cost, it's just the lines running from our house to the poles that would cost a ton. Not sure about the transformer, iirc they charge only if it's a dedicated transformer for your residence only.
Even without solar though, just a 200A service upgrade for ONE of the 4 homes would require the transformer to be switched. -
Y'all don't have 200A service in 2024?! That's remarkable (i.e., from a US perspective).
