EtherREGEN's - A discussion about them and what it is they do....

treitz3

Well, this weekend should be an experience of sounds changing, images all over the place and some experimenting with this EtherREGEN and the associated equipment that is due to hit the household today. Brad Vojtech's (Revelation Audio) cables also came in last night for the kW-750 (Not as long of a wait as I anticipated).

I'm looking forward to hearing what all of the hub-bub is about.

Tom

treitz3

Well, I did not end up getting the gear until today.

Whoa!

Tom

treitz3

"Effortless" - Best word to describe what I am hearing.

Thank you to those who helped answer some of my "rookie" questions with regards to this. It is much appreciated! I truly do not know how much cleaner it can get than this...

Tom

Dr_Wu

Did you listen to it before and after connecting the clock?
Thinking about a clock/LPS combo for my ER
Thanks, and enjoy your upgrades!

treitz3

No sir, I did not. I hooked everything up at once, tried a couple of different configurations and then spent WAAAAY too much time listening into the wee hours of the night. I'm gonna be seriously hurtin' later on today because of it. DOH!

Give me until next week and I can run a test with the current gear for you. I'd like to let the system warm up and stabilize until Sunday, so I can do a real evaluation and see what the changes are, before making any more changes to the system.

I may not be able to swap out the LPS due to my configuration (don't want to bypass the "moat" in the ER) but the EtherREGEN (as you know) has a switch on the back that allows you to engage the Master clock or bypass it. I can power her down, flip the switch and run it without the clock.

4 major differences observed last night;

Air/sense of space
Depth is outstanding
The lower registers got exponentially better
Poorly recorded songs sound listenable/enjoyable

Tom

erniejade

I am glad you're hearing the same things I heard going to the EtherREGEN. That little warm running thing really makes a difference and helps show off the cables and the power supply upgrade, even more. For me, going from the Supra Ethernet to the RAL Ethernet was not subtle. Without the EtherREGEN in place, the differences were slight between Ethernet cables. More of everything just comes through with the ER in place.

treitz3

Well, I can't really say what the EtherREGEN does by itself because everything seemingly hit the door at the same time. I was gonna hook everything up just to find out what did what but decided against that because I wanted to find out what my investment would actually do to the end result.

Last night, the last of the components finally came in and I did some more experimenting with how everything got hooked up. I believe I have found the best configuration to extract everything out of the Vega G2. Here is a list of how everything is configured;

NETGEAR Nighthawk Multi-Gig Cable Modem CM2000 >
Shunyata Alpha Ethernet cable >
NETGEAR Nighthawk Tri-band Mesh (MK83) AX3600 Router >
******wirelessly over Wi-Fi using a different band******
Dueland dca12 - 20 amp PC >
Richard Gray Pro400 Power Supply >
LPS #1 - AfterDark High Current LPS with 12V / HiFi Tuning Cryo Gold Fuse + Furutech Rhodium IEC, dual rail via >
DC PC's - Continental Triple Crown CFS DC Power Cable (Limited Edition), 0.8 Meter / Copper Conductor / DC 2.1mm - 2ea
DC PC #1 goes to the EtherREGEN v1 B side
CD PC #2 goes to the NETGEAR Nighthawk Extender (satellite) - Ethernet out to A side of the EtherREGEN via Shunyata Venom
LPS #2 - Zero Zone 12VDC 15W Linear Power Supply >
Master Clock - AfterDark Emperor Signature ClayX Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference, 75ohm >
Clock Cable - Project ClayX Black River Giesemann EVA Reference 75ohm BNC Clock Cable, 0.80m > B side of EtherREGEN
EtherREGEN B side out Ethernet via Shunyata Omega > Auralic Vega G2

This is the best combination/configuration that I have heard so far and while I was pleased with the Auralic Vega G2 (after I figured out how to get her up and running), the end result as to what hit your ears left me still wanting.

Now that I have had some time to listen? I am honestly floored at what I am hearing. I am hearing things I have never heard before and also in a way I have never heard them presented before. Not just a sound here and there, I mean like all over the place.

I was texting Trey and Rick last night and one thing that dawned on me was the movie, Avatar. I have listened to many of the songs before on vinyl and through my Marantz but as I was listening to Billie Eilish, I made the comment that "I see her".

Yes, for the first time, Billie Eilish was truly an audiophile experience. Yosi Horikawa's "Bubbles" took on a WHOLE other presentation and when I say that "I see them"? I am not kidding. It's so palpable that you can "see" the balls dropping and know exactly the size, how heavy each one is and even what material(s) each ball is. With your eyes wide open or shut.

Before this, the best system I heard where you could "see" the balls was down at LSAF in the Raven room. Granted, I could only see that one ball on the left at the beginning of the song. Now I see all of them and the sounds are just flat out incredible.

The weight of wood instruments is uncannily natural, the timbre and tonality is quite nice and different than what I have heard out of the Tyler Woodmere's before. Sounds that were kind of annoying are no longer annoying at all. They are laid back and now part of the music.

There were some significant changes during the warm up cycle and sounds were all over the place for a little bit but when the streaming rig finally started to open up? Man, she took me places I had never been before along my audio journey. Places I never thought possible, truth be told.

I could literally write for the next 2 to 3 hours on all of the changes I have experienced and new sounds that I am hearing but I won't. I will say that I am a very, very happy camper and I'll offer you my final (and VERY long) listening impressions in a month or two, when everything is dialed in and settled down. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy the latest path along my digital audio journey. This is so much fun and highly rewarding!!!

Tom

rebelsoul

treitz3 wrote: »

I ran across this one today - https://www.beatechnik.com/lhy-audio-sw-8





There isn't much information out there on these yet, as it's mostly used overseas. Looks like it's built solidly and has many of the same tech that the ER uses. No option to add an external clock though.

_____________________________________________________________________________

That said, I was able to run across this very long article/review today that shed a heck of a lot of light on this subject (to me). It takes a while to read, so if you don't have the time, reserve some time and revisit it later. It touches on one subject that I had always pondered. Using two ER's or "moats" in your signal chain.



The biggest change in sonics (much like the Ethernet cables) come at the point to where the signal enters the DAC or end point of the chain but I could not for the life of me figure out why one would (see photo above) go through a standard switch (dirty signal) into an ER (short for EtherRegen).

Logic would state that you go straight to the ER, with one leg going to daisy chain a standard switch/router for all of your other computer needs. If this isn't possible for some reason I do not know about, please let me know. I haven't ran across anything yet that would say that this isn't possible. I base this theory on the. "You can't make chicken soup out of chicken chit" philosophy. Why start with a dirty signal? Wouldn't one want to start out with a clean signal and clean it up from there (if needed)?

So, since I lose the hardwired connection in my signal chain....I lose part of the noise inherent in certain configurations but this leads me to what I have always thought. The article touches on this within the results. Have one ER at the start and another where it makes the most difference. I.E., at the end of the chain.

Have any of you tried this?

DK, I know you are waiting for the new ER to come out. Maybe you could try this on one of your systems (Two ER's in the chain) when the new ER's come out.

This is quickly becoming a really deep rabbit hole, especially if I end up with 2 ER's and the associated gear/equipment for both of them (LPS's, digital cables, PC's, clocks, BNC cables, etc.). Some of this may or not be needed at the end of the day but the journey in learning and experimenting sure will be fun!

Thanks for the kind words, @Dr_Wu.

Tom

Lhy sw-10 has the 10 hz clock input and fiber and a better crystal.

heiney9

Mine came today. Along with another goodie for the office rig.

treitz3

Have you had time to hook it up and give 'er a whirl yet?

Tom

heiney9

treitz3 wrote: »

Have you had time to hook it up and give 'er a whirl yet?

Tom

No. While I'm excited to hear it, it's a huge chore to plug anything new into the power conditioner. I am in desperate need to pull everything apart and reroute cables and make space for the new gear. This is a 1/2 day (atleast) project. So, it will have to wait. Plus, I don't even have a decent ethernet cable to run between the ER and the Node3. This purchase came about much quicker than I expected.

Normally I'm all over a new piece of gear, but with such limited time to sit and listen these days even if I installed it today I wouldn't be able to really listen for awhile. I plan on getting the USB Regen up and going in the office rig this weekend.

The USB Regen didn't come with the supplied PS so I asked UpTone if I could use the one from the ER. Pretty sure I can, it's the same voltage, but more peak amperage and watts. I purchased (this morning) the exact PS that came with the USB Regen from DigiKey. I'll use that until or if I decide on a suitable linear PS. I don't tend to tweek to the "nth" degree on the office rig. UpTone had good things to say about the PS they sold with it, so I'm going to try that one for awhile.

Here's the exact unit

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/GST25A07-P1J/7703646?s=N4IgjCBcoCwBxVAYygMwIYBsDOBTANCAPZQDaIATAOwAMVArPSALqEAOALlCAMocBOASwB2AcxABfQmDAUaiECkgYcBYmXABmAGzaqCViE7c+QsZMIUwcKgqUq8hEpHIUKAAgDqLdl0ggAVWFBDgB5VABZXHRsAFd+XAsQAFoYOzQsR3UXEG0wGho05gkpSg0AW2jhdwB3XExMd1FsLmKgA

Original plan was to use the ER power supply with the USB Regen and get linear PS for the ER. That will be a future upgrade. I'd like to get a used Keces P3 or P6 linear supply to run both the Node3 and ER from a single unit. Again, in the future (new) or when I find a used one.

https://power-holdings-inc.com/Keces-P6-6-Amp-Linear-Power-Supply-p485459710

H9

msg

Annnd once again I curse the day I found this place. Late December, 2013...

VR3

treitz3

LOL....nobody ever said this was a cheap hobby. Well, maybe those who have "yacht collecting" as a hobby might.

Nothing wrong with trying to achieve high fidelity excellence. The end result is as much fun as the journey!

Tom

rebelsoul

Th

treitz3 wrote: »

LOL....nobody ever said this was a cheap hobby. Well, maybe those who have "yacht collecting" as a hobby might.

Nothing wrong with trying to achieve high fidelity excellence. The end result is as much fun as the journey!

Tom

That's for sure , I thought selling my albums and c-19 and my turntable was going to save me money lmao. It did pay for my bat mono blocks and got me to a whole nother level but now $650 switch , $500 Ethernet cables, $1600 muon pro.
$90 if silent Ethernet . $230 ifi power 2x 12volt power supplies there new and supposed to be 10x quietiter than lps for my modem and TV box.

treitz3

LOL, I definitely hear ya'. It all started for me with a simple and cheap Ethernet cable swap out. Now, I don't think I have any original equipment left. Here is a snapshot of the current streaming part of the rig.

Network/Streaming system leading up to the Canary Pre -
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Multi-Gig Cable Modem CM2000 >
Shunyata Alpha Ethernet cable > to mesh router
iFi iPower Elite 12v PS>
NETGEAR Nighthawk Tri-band Mesh (MK83) AX3600 Router >
******wirelessly over Wi-Fi using a different band******
Dueland dca12 - 20 amp PC >
Richard Gray Pro400 Power Supply >
LPS #1 - AfterDark High Current LPS with 12V / HiFi Tuning Cryo Gold Fuse + Furutech Rhodium IEC, dual rail via >
DC PC's - Continental Triple Crown CFS DC Power Cable (Limited Edition), 0.8 Meter / Copper Conductor / DC 2.1mm - 2ea
DC PC #1 goes to the EtherREGEN v1 B side
CD PC #2 goes to the NETGEAR Nighthawk Extender (satellite) - Ethernet out to A side of the EtherREGEN via Shunyata Venom
LPS #2 - Zero Zone 12VDC 15W Linear Power Supply >
Master Clock - AfterDark Emperor Signature ClayX Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference, 75ohm >
Clock Cable - Project ClayX Black River Giesemann EVA Reference 75ohm BNC Clock Cable, 0.80m > B side of EtherREGEN
EtherREGEN B side out Ethernet via Shunyata Omega > Muon Pro Filter> Lumin UX1>
Audiolund xTreme Silver Series 1.5m furutech BNC>
LamipzatOr - Lampizator Level 5 Gen 4 tubed DAC with separate PS, KAS Audio Primus PC>
Snake River Signature Series Hybrid (Gold. Silver, Copper) RCA>
IsoMax Ci-2RR Isolation Transformer>
Snake River Cottonmouth (Gold/Red Copper) RCA> Canary Pre

All of this, within the past 3 and a half months.....so I definitely understand what you are saying. All of this has brought me to an entirely different playing field when it comes to streaming and I am enjoying the heck out of listening. I look very forward to listening everyday. It isn't very often anymore that the system is powered down, not playing anything.

You are gonna love that Muon. Have you got it in yet? They shipped it to me pretty quickly (something like 4 days or so).

Tom

treitz3

FYI, I found out that the Gen 2 EtherREGEN's have been pushed back to 2024.

Tom

Dr_Wu

Yes, but a new run of Gen 1 is being released this month. $680

GlennDog

treitz3 wrote: »

FYI, I found out that the Gen 2 EtherREGEN's have been pushed back to 2024.
Tom

Dr_Wu wrote: »

Yes, but a new run of Gen 1 is being released this month. $680

Thanks guys . . . Have either of you found any info or link addressing the difference between the 2 ?

TIA

treitz3

I read the differences in a thread that would take me a day to read again and find out, so I went ahead and asked the owner of UpTone Audio your question. It's easier to simply ask the "horses mouth", if you will. Plus, we might get some more recent news, as some of the parts he wanted but were not available, may now be available.

It is interesting on how much used ER's are still going for. They are still commanding pretty much top dollar from the price they were purchased for.

Tom

treitz3

That was quick! Already heard back from him.

They will be utilizing more readily available parts and incorporating a number of technical advancements. These include Gigabit capability on both the ‘A’ and ‘B’ sides of our unique active-differential-isolation moat, even lower jitter clock synthesizers, an exceptional new PHY chip, and the world’s best sine-to-square wave converter (benefiting those who chose to pair with an external 10MHz reference clock). The new version might even include a second SFP cage—on the ‘B’ side—to improve performance for users of optical endpoints.

Unfortunately, production quantity delivery of the brand new high-performance, low-jitter PHY chip that we have designed in looks like it will be delayed several more months. Therefore we now expect first shipment of EtherREGEN Gen2 will not take place until early-2024.

Looks I'll be one of the first to order a ER Gen2.

Tom

GlennDog

Get in line pal ! lol

THANKS for the info, Tom

edit: any hint at MSRP?

treitz3

I asked him if there is a waiting list to sign up for or if you just buy it when it is released.....and also inquired about the price. No response as of yet.

Tom

treitz3

Okay, a couple of updates. I heard back from him and this is his response -

If you previously purchased any product directly from us at UpTone, then whatever e-mail address you used for your order is on our (extremely infrequently used) e-mail list. Assuming I can figure out the new bulk mailing software I bought (one of the very few that allows for importation of existing lists without getting active opt-in consent from every one or paying big $), then all 14,000 people on our list will be notified prior to launch--a couple of weeks before we open up for orders.



If you are not sure if you are on our mailing list, just go to the "Contact Us" page and drop us a one sentence note and we will add you to the list to be notified.


With regards to “pre-orders”:

We never accept any orders for products (new or back-ordered) until the circuit boards are in-process and we can quote clients an exact week for shipment.

For new model launches we inform in advance (on public forum and to all on our e-mail list) of the upcoming “launch morning”--which is always a Tuesday at 9:00 a.m. Pacific time—when the AddToCart button will appear on the product’s web page (a few weeks before that I’ll create a new page on our site for EtherREGEN Gen2). People around the world set their alarms for that day/time as historically we have had a stampede the moment we go live accepting orders. The original EtherREGEN sold 250 units in the first 10 minutes, then another 175 over the course of that first day. Crazy! The first production run for EtherREGEN Gen2 will be just 250 units since of the part we have already procured, there are some items we have only enough for the first 250 at the moment (you can bet we are already pre-ordering more parts but the stakes of this give me a stomach ache and we can only extend so far until we are sure about progress).

With that said, regarding the price - I asked him if he has honed in on a price -

Not officially. But we are shooting for the mid-$700 range. Hopefully not more than $750.

Tom

treitz3

I was able to run across a very interesting thread that has a link to a white paper, written by John Swinson. For those that are interested in learning more about the ER, this is a great place to get your learn on.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62477-john-swenson-tutoring-paper-considerations-regarding-usage-of-external-reference-clocks-etherregen-and-other-sine-vs-square-impedance-cables—and-a-money-saving-surprise-at-the-end/page/6/#comments

Tom

jbreezy5

Quite literally, everything one needs to know about EtherRegen from an expert in the field, including measurements compared to a competing product, listening impressions, and pricing (2019 pricing, anyway).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/

treitz3

There is a reason you are on ignore. I'm quite sure, without even seeing it, your post above helps to explain to others exactly why you are on ignore.

Tom

invalid

If topping made it, then it would be a great product.

jbreezy5

invalid wrote: »

If topping made it, then it would be a great product.

Actually, the EtherRegen measures just fine; however, the price is unwarranted, as it measures no better than an inexpensive TP-Link gigabit switch.

Some people like to waste their money I suppose.

invalid

jbreezy5 wrote: »

invalid wrote: »

If topping made it, then it would be a great product.

Actually, the EtherRegen measures just fine; however, the price is unwarranted, as it measures no better than an inexpensive TP-Link gigabit switch.

Some people like to waste their money I suppose.

I take it that you bought one and compared it to TP-Link gigabyte switch?