Legend L800 vs. SDA-SRS 1.2TL...
Comments
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Am I clear that you are driving your L800s with mono blocks? All the experts reviews that I have read say do not even use your balanced connections use unbalanced connections for the best results. The SDA's need the unbalanced signal for sda to function optimally. I have had my L800s for a few months and still waiting on my anthem 70 processor to balance the complete system
My amps are not balanced... I use balanced connections from source components to my preamp, and unbalanced from the pre to the amps.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »An update... Playing around with the room and speaker placement, and much of my earlier difficulties appear to be moving behind me as I begin to get acclimated to the new speakers. The one niggling little issue is that the L800 do not really generate that "wall of sound" presence the 1.2TL's had. They are far more accurate, incredibly fast and detailed, but just cant seem to elevate themselves above about 6 feet. whereas the TL's were simply huge in that regard.
While I know nothing about the L800's (other then agonizing on whether to buy or not when they were on sale). I've only tried a couple of other speakers over the years, KEF R900 and a pair of Dynaudio Contour S3.4 LE's, while they sounded quite good, they didn't possess the scale of the SDA's.
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Am I clear that you are driving your L800s with mono blocks? All the experts reviews that I have read say do not even use your balanced connections use unbalanced connections for the best results. The SDA's need the unbalanced signal for sda to function optimally. I have had my L800s for a few months and still waiting on my anthem 70 processor to balance the complete system
I haven't come across any expert reviews saying balanced interconnects in a system present a problem for the L800s. Got a link to one of the expert reviews to share?
There are known issues with fully differential stereo amps and the L800s but it wouldn't matter if a balanced or unbalanced cable runs from a preamp output to an amp of that design. The result would be less than desirable with either XLR or RCA cables for the SDA function on the L800s with a differential amp. -
The amp for these should be common ground, duel monos whether they be separates or built into one unit i think from memory loose 6 db on the sda side!
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The amp for these should be common ground, duel monos whether they be separates or built into one unit i think from memory loose 6 db on the sda side!
New L800's are not tied to common ground only architecture.F1nut wrote:The way SDA is implemented in the L800 does allow for the use of non- common ground amps. -
Sorry Pitdogg2 and F1,I was Still half a sleep here at 4:30 am...I see there has been a bit of confusion in the past with these and the word "balanced" !
Not talking about the inputs to the amp but configuration when simplified being a + amp and - amp working together per channel. one pushing and the other pulling is where i beleive the problem starts. -
Why didn't polk design the L800 to be used with the isolation transformer, just like the vintage later model SDA's?
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Why didn't polk design the L800 to be used with the isolation transformer, just like the vintage later model SDA's?
Larger market to sell them?
Just a guess. -
Are you kidding? They can't even clearly distinguish left and right speaker on their website? Where the heck they going to make the Dreadnought work?? 😝😝- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Sorry Pitdogg2 and F1,I was Still half a sleep here at 4:30 am...I see there has been a bit of confusion in the past with these and the word "balanced" !
Not talking about the inputs to the amp but configuration when simplified being a + amp and - amp working together per channel. one pushing and the other pulling is where i beleive the problem starts.
@Emlyn nailed it.
Polk wanted to use one of their upper Marantz products and found that particular one was a no go.
I cannot remember which it was. -
Sorry Pitdogg2 and F1,I was Still half a sleep here at 4:30 am...I see there has been a bit of confusion in the past with these and the word "balanced" !
Not talking about the inputs to the amp but configuration when simplified being a + amp and - amp working together per channel. one pushing and the other pulling is where i beleive the problem starts.
@Emlyn nailed it.
Polk wanted to use one of their upper Marantz products and found that particular one was a no go.
I cannot remember which it was.
It's in the big an early L800 thread.
Marantz PM-10, per @F1nut
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2644399#Comment_2644399 -
Reminds me...and I'll discuss later when I do my Legend HT review
Marantz pre/pro are Euro connects when using balanced cables...AV7706 XLR pins 2&3 are reversed2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Am I clear that you are driving your L800s with mono blocks? All the experts reviews that I have read say do not even use your balanced connections use unbalanced connections for the best results. The SDA's need the unbalanced signal for sda to function optimally. I have had my L800s for a few months and still waiting on my anthem 70 processor to balance the complete system
I believe you are confused. You cannot use a dual differential (fully balanced) amp(s) with the L800, but there's no reason balanced cables can't be used.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Patiently awaiting pTrooper's comparison between the L800's and his Monoliths.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Today, I bypassed my Pass Labs gear and ran them from the Pioneer HT receiver in enhanced stereo mode. This allowed me to get the L900 Atmos modules involved. In this mode, they were brilliant. They equaled the TL's ability to project a soundstage, and they delivered in spades. Detail was astonishing compared to the TL's, but at the same time, they seemed to be missing that low-end growl. The best way I can describe it is that there is a lot of substance, but not texture. So polished and refined but still leaving you wanting them to take the gloves off and just get dirty.
The L800's are above that. Feed them a string quartet, vocal heavy country/pop, or jazz, and they simply blow the doors off. Give them AC/DC, or other hard rock, and they don't really want to get into the music they are being fed. Too much information coming at them and they seem to get lost at this point.
I only have 75 hours or so on them at this point, so that may change. At this point, the L800 are a nice speaker, but I am leaning towards the TL's...
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Two weeks have passed since I first posted about the L800's... As I have continued to listen, they have continued to improve in all regards. I have never needed to run a set of speakers this long to get them to sound their best, but coming up at about 100 hours of break-in, I must say that nearly all my perceptions of them have been completely blown away. While they do not still give me that sense of height that the TL's do, the L800 does a damn good job at nearly everything else. I just finished listening to my 1983 copy of The Beatles "Abbey Road" (EMI CP-35-3016) and the ability of these speakers to add layers of detail and paint an accurate picture of the sound-space blew my mind.
After having watched the "Get Back" series on Disney+, I gave "Let it Be-NAKED" a spin... for the first time, I could hear the wind on the rooftop during "Get Back" and "I got a Feeling".
I still have some issues with the room to fix, but it is becoming clear that the L800 are keepers.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Think of how they will sound once you actually start playing good music on them!
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Think of how they will sound once you actually start playing good music on them!
That is good music......for me to p00p on!Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra -
The review I left on the product page...
I am going to be as honest as I can be in this review... after three days of listening, I very nearly sent them back! My previous speakers were a set of completely updated Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's, which were the very best speakers I have had in my setup. My expectations were incredibly high for these L800's, a speaker that I was hoping Polk would someday build. Out of the box, the build quality was impressive, and I eagerly connected them and sat down to listen. To say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement, and prompted a to call and get a return label! There was no way these speakers could possibly best my 1.2TL's... As fate would have it, I was unable to get them packaged before FedEX came to take them, so I kept playing with them. At about 100 hours in, the L800 finally began to deliver what I was hoping to hear. They are highly accurate, involving and detailed. While very unforgiving of poorly recorded music, they excel at bringing out the smallest details within your music. What caught my attention was the way I could hear the wind in the microphones of the "Get Back" rooftop sessions performed for the The Beatles "Let It Be"... Highs are exactly what they should be, fast, crisp and airy. Mids are superb... I find with my setup, that a nice sub or two elevates listening by allowing increased authority to the bottom end, which frees up the L800 to do what they do best. The SDA functions are sublime and shocking at the same time. The soundstage, especially for music that involves many pieces, like Big Band or Orchestra/Choir music is MASSIVE and enveloping without ever sounding congested or muddy. Bottom line is... I LOVE MY SPEAKERS!!!
Polk's reply...
Brand new speakers are a curious thing. Like a chrysalis, they take a while to reveal their true colors. And even though our new speakers have a break-in time which can take a month or two to occur, we can't help but judge them before that time has expired. When the butterfly eventually spreads it wings however, it can be a beautiful thing well worth waiting for. Thank you for the kind words and being a loyal Polk Audio fan. We are thrilled to be a part of your musical listening experience. Happy listening.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Great review, @nooshinjohn!
"Like a chrysalis..."
I don't know if that means it's a good idea or a bad idea to listen to Jethro Tull records during break-in...
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Wow John I just read this thread!
I'm impressed as to the extent of detail you shared during your journey! Letting it all out there, as you did, creates a sense of vulnerability ripe for criticism.
Please post some pics of your latest setup. Mine are essentially in the same spot my TL's were.
Admittedly, I have less than 20 hours on mine, so I have some work to do!Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
I'm glad you stuck in there and have them a fair shot!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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I'm glad you stuck in there and have them a fair shot!
Juggling a family while trying to figure things out is the only reason they are still here. By that, I mean I just did not have time to pack them off, but I did run them as background music while I went about caring for the kids. Towards the end of the week, I sat down finally for a sandwich and give them a final listen before pulling them out. That is when I started to hear their potential.
I am going to make some more changes, like upgrading my DAC, AVR, and some other moves. I think there is far more they are capable of than what the current rig can give them. Just like their older siblings, these L800’s will really shine when the gear feeding them is of exceptional quality.
Let me know when you get the crossover mods mapped out!
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
It's a doozy:
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I kind of have an idea what it is based off the L200.
The sda and stereo array looks like the L200 crossover x2 based on that Pic plus a low pass circuit for the bass.
None the less a **** load of parts... You would absolutely have to go external- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
It looks like there is much room for upgrades over stock. Do you have an idea as to cost?
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Using csa, mox, Jantzen inductors.. You would be looking at atleast 3 to 4k in parts, assuming you cna keep it internal... Which is doubtful
Using cmr and path audio... Maybe closer to 8k when you factor in the enclosure custom umbilical etc etc- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
If you were to focus on the weakest link in this, where would us start, or is it best to just do it all at once.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Biggest weak links would be the iron core inductors in the main path of the midrange... I would guess there are 4 total counting the sda circuit
Next would be the sand cast resistors
Following the caps- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
So foil inductors would be the way to go here then?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
