Legend L800 vs. SDA-SRS 1.2TL...

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  • Hermitism
    Hermitism Posts: 4,205
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    Polk's interpretation of the Human Centipede.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,464
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    dammit, stop that! I just got over that disturbing imagery.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,101
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    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Do you have the Santana Abraxas SACD? or a good recording?

    The quick run through I had with the L800's this was most impressive

    Abraxas on MoFi One-Step is one of my go-to LP's, and it was a no go.... the CD Ultimate Santana was very good. I am still trying to wrap my head around vinyl sounding bad but digital sources sounding better all the time.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
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    10-4...and it was not an SACD, as you mention...it was the Mofi CD of Abraxas
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,342
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    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Abraxas on MoFi One-Step is one of my go-to LP's, and it was a no go.... the CD Ultimate Santana was very good. I am still trying to wrap my head around vinyl sounding bad but digital sources sounding better all the time.
    What this tells me is that you have an issue with your vinyl rig. (Don't shoot the messenger)

    Your vinyl should sound sublime with these speakers. Digital (depending on your source and upstream/downstream components) should come in a very close second to very subpar.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,342
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    John, take the time to listen and describe what "sounds bad" on vinyl. You know I have respect for you and your ears but the things you have presented us tonight make no sense.
    The one thing I have learned is that (through discussion) you can learn from others what you may not know (or have heard before). Something here isn't making sense. Something is amiss.
    Now, it could be that the speakers are in that "weird" phase of break in to where the sounds are literally all over the place. It could be that you disturbed something else within the system. I don't know, nobody knows but you.
    I am NOT being confrontational (and if I seem that way, this is NOT my intention) but it seems as if something is amiss IME/IMO.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,101
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    Nothing else in the rig was mover or otherwise touched when installing the L800's, But my table has been silent for a month. It sounded better than digital back then, and inspection of the Goldfinger shows it is in perfect shape stylus and cantilever wise.

    The only thing that comes to mind is as you said, break-in, or my analog ears are simply not intended for the digital world.

    I ran the L800's in my HT side of my setup, and they blew the TL's out of the water.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,438
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    I think the new Legend series is voiced to enhance digital recordings whereas the SDA's are voiced more for analog. I know my SDA's match well with LP's.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    audioluvr wrote: »
    I think the new Legend series is voiced to enhance digital recordings whereas the SDA's are voiced more for analog. I know my SDA's match well with LP's.

    Out of curiosity, how does a speaker be voiced between an analog or digital source? The signal reaching the speaker is analog regardless of the source.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

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    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
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    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,438
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    In todays music only the signal from the amp to the speakers is analog. Everything else is recorded, mixed, produced, mastered, distributed and processed digitally. Just like everything audio has a sound signature, speakers are developed to produce sound based on the designers and engineers perception of ideal. A speaker designed in the 80's when digital was just getting started and most of us still had turntables and tape will have a different sound signature.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2021
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    Not really buying any of that...

    Look, I’m of the opinion that from what is being described......something is broken.

    There is no way, IMO, on Gods green earth that an mp3 is going to deliver decent resolution/sound on a decent rig. And while I’m a break in believer......I’m reasonably skeptical about wild and chaotic mood swings. It’s generally pretty linear and incremental, in my experience. Not discounting that some days the rig sounds better than others and all that but all of my experiences tend to reinforce the linear and incremental theory.....like a day that the rig is just meh, it usually everything sounds meh. Not, well if I play an mp3 of this, great but the LP sounds awful when yesterday the reverse was true......unless something was not operating as it should.

    Now, voicing speakers....sure, as technology changes things move in that direction. Back in the Golden Age of HIFi.....high frequency response was limited in speakers which was fine because recording technology also limited frequency response and as the recording process improved, so did playback capabilities......and every designer designs with certain goals in mind....but what’s being floated above doesn’t hold much water....

    Now, I have been known to be given to hyperbole from time to time out of sheer excitement and I’m not casting aspersions or doubting sincerity......but none of this makes any sense.
    Post edited by TroyD on
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,049
    edited November 2021
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    treitz3 wrote: »
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Abraxas on MoFi One-Step is one of my go-to LP's, and it was a no go.... the CD Ultimate Santana was very good. I am still trying to wrap my head around vinyl sounding bad but digital sources sounding better all the time.
    What this tells me is that you have an issue with your vinyl rig. (Don't shoot the messenger)

    Your vinyl should sound sublime with these speakers. Digital (depending on your source and upstream/downstream components) should come in a very close second to very subpar.

    Tom

    Or it could be that the L800s reveal the LF and HF limitations of... yes, it is true... the LP record.
    Lots of moving parts there (so to speak) to compromise reproduction from an LP -- foremost above them being thr RIAA curve itself and the rolloff and summing to mono of bass below (usually) 50 Hz on AFAIK all LPs to avoid issues of rumble, platform instability, and system resonances. Neither of these limitations exist in the digital domain -- which (sad but true) is why a properly mastered digital recording , yes, even a redbook CD, really and truly could sound better than an LP.

    And, mind you, I am an LP guy -- but I also have an LP/analog friendly hifi system, tailored (although not specifically by design) to the limitations of analog reproduction.

    Pretty safe to assume the older SDAs were, ahem, voiced to the sources of their time.
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  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,663
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    John, can you put the 1.2's back in just to confirm everything is good? Then at least you would know the vinyl side of the system is still performing as expected.
    2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 3,508
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    Olympic speaker listening team.

    hj9297pim2tg.png
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,101
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    tratliff wrote: »
    John, can you put the 1.2's back in just to confirm everything is good? Then at least you would know the vinyl side of the system is still performing as expected.

    It's a PITA to do, but yes I can. I want to give them some more time to burn in first before swapping things around. To those that say something must be broken, that is absolutely not the case.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
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    Any chance you will be returning these?
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,101
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    motorhead43026 wrote: »
    Any chance you will be returning these?

    Way to early to tell yet.

    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,640
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    I seem to remember some extensive conversation about these.
    And lots of poo pooing about how they were definitely set up wrong and that it definitely couldn’t be the shortcomings of the speakers themselves.

    Not saying you have them set up wrong…more implying that maybe they actually aren’t a worthy successor to the classic SDAs as some of us had suggested.
    🤷‍♂️
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
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    It could be a speaker setup/placement issue. Or poor equipment matching/system synergy. Or you received two L or two R speakers instead of L and R. Or you hooked them up wrong.

    But it's certainly not the speakers themselves. Nope, no way.
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,373
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    I think the real power in the L800s is as home theater speakers which is why they have the Atmos module option. The two channel performance is well above anything Polk has produced in the last 20-25 years and to me an added bonus. The SDA is fun but is more pronounced on the L800s than on previous SDA models. That could be what some are hearing in their systems especially with room and furniture interactions taking place.

    The $6K MSRP on these is fair IMHO if they're just used in a two channel system but I think they were designed for more than that.

    The pair of Magnepan 1.7is I have do stereo imaging and wrap around effects even better than the L800s but they lack dynamics without fast subwoofers added. That just proves there's no perfect speaker.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,101
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    As I said above in a comment, these smoke the 1.2TL's in the HT realm. I did also get the L900 modules and they blew me away at how much better they are. My rig is used 85 percent of the time as a two-channel however, and I am not that much into HT.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,101
    edited November 2021
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    I moved them off the back wall a couple inches, and moved them 18 inches closer to each other. The improvement is noticeable. I will get them spiked this afternoon and see what that does to the sound...

    I am also going to wire the L900 to operate in stereo mode and see of that gives me anything. I think one of the things I am really missing is the sense of scale the TL's provided. In my room, the TL's were almost a line source, and perhaps the Atmos modules can project that.
    Post edited by nooshinjohn on
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,373
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    What I've found is placement is far more forgiving with the L800s in a home theater setup than for two channel music. It's the two channel that's more difficult than usual. For two channel these sound best to me when I'm sitting up and forward and dead center on the sofa. For home theater they sound fine on all three sofa spaces across from the TV. I didn't think the Atmos modules would make much a difference but I find them to be well worth the extra cost.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,052
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    Based on my experience at troys, placement and room design is everything with these
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,608
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    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    I am also going to wire the L900 to operate in stereo mode and see of that gives me anything. I think one of the things I am really missing is the sense of scale the TL's provided. In my room, the TL's were almost a line source, and perhaps the Atmos modules can project that.
    confused-oh-ok.gif


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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,373
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    I'd recommend caution with the power going to the Atmos modules if driving them full range. The drivers are smaller and they don't produce much below 150 Hz. Peak handling is only documented as 100 watts but they do still need a relatively high current amp.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,101
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    Polk's advice was not to run the L900 in stereo mode, so I won't be trying that...

    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,101
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    An update... Playing around with the room and speaker placement, and much of my earlier difficulties appear to be moving behind me as I begin to get acclimated to the new speakers. The one niggling little issue is that the L800 do not really generate that "wall of sound" presence the 1.2TL's had. They are far more accurate, incredibly fast and detailed, but just cant seem to elevate themselves above about 6 feet. whereas the TL's were simply huge in that regard.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
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    As has been eluded to, room placement with the L800's appears (at least it was at PF) much more critical and has a far more pronounced effect than with previous SDA models.

    In terms of the soundstage height.....pretty simple, the 1.2tl is a helluva lot taller so that makes sense. The SDA effect was different from model to model in the old SDA lineup (I think the 2B and CRS's were the sweet spot and the SRS 2's were probably my fave..) so, again, I think it is reasonable to conclude that the presentation is going to be different. I agree, the image specificity and focus with the L800 is very impressive.
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • EJMiller
    EJMiller Posts: 1
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    Am I clear that you are driving your L800s with mono blocks? All the experts reviews that I have read say do not even use your balanced connections use unbalanced connections for the best results. The SDA's need the unbalanced signal for sda to function optimally. I have had my L800s for a few months and still waiting on my anthem 70 processor to balance the complete system
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