RD0 Billet Faceplate Upgrade

Sound_Recluse

So here is the latest and greatest visual upgrade for my sda 2.3s and I like the looks of it. Very easy to install and the billet is a very big improvement over the oem plastic plates. Very good craftsmanship. I can't thank xschop enough for these beauty's.


So I started by removing the rdos from the speakers then I removed the 4 screws from the tweeters themselves. Then I removed the magnet from the tweeter coil. The tweeter coil and dome remained attached to the plastic faceplate. Remembering the orientation I removed it and placed it on the magnet. Pretty simple. They are easy to pull off.


Cover the wire leads on each side of the tweeter dome with electrical tape.




I added the billet faceplate which fit perfectly. Installed the 4 original screws. Installed original gasket. Then installed back into speaker cabinet.



The finished results are some very sophisticated looking 2.3s
Nice job xschop!!!

pitdogg2

Looks very nice.
I'm left wondering if painting the recess with the 3m or other electrical paint or even a few layers of plastic dip would work as well or better.

https://www.google.com/search?source=android-browser&q=Liquid+Electrical+Tape&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDta7iyqLrAhVzds0KHctuDzkQ1QIwB3oECAsQBg&biw=360&bih=598

Sound_Recluse

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Looks very nice.
I'm left wondering if painting the recess with the 3m or other electrical paint or even a few layers of plastic dip would work as well or better.

https://www.google.com/search?source=android-browser&q=Liquid+Electrical+Tape&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDta7iyqLrAhVzds0KHctuDzkQ1QIwB3oECAsQBg&biw=360&bih=598

If I would have had some of that liquid tape on hand I would have definitely used it. Don't really want to take them all apart again though lol.

pitdogg2

Sound_Recluse wrote: »

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Looks very nice.
I'm left wondering if painting the recess with the 3m or other electrical paint or even a few layers of plastic dip would work as well or better.

https://www.google.com/search?source=android-browser&q=Liquid+Electrical+Tape&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDta7iyqLrAhVzds0KHctuDzkQ1QIwB3oECAsQBg&biw=360&bih=598

If I would have had some of that liquid tape on hand I would have definitely used it. Don't really want to take them all apart again though lol.

OH NO I wouldn't do that either, I was just really thinking out loud so to speak

xschop

My new favorite SDAs right there. Wish I could hear Pink Floyd's Time on them.

You're right. Larger billet spikes with the same patina will indeed tie it all in.

motorstereo

I just finished one of my 1.2tls and I agree; these plates are the real deal. They look great and I've gained a full second on my passive returning to normal vs the old plastic plates.
I also like your idea SR of taping the tweeter leads as opposed to taping the plates which is how I installed half of mine. I used gorilla outdoor tape as it's very sticky; much more so than regular duct tape or plastic electrical tape.

Sound_Recluse

xschop wrote: »

My new favorite SDAs right there. Wish I could hear Pink Floyd's Time on them.

You're right. Larger billet spikes with the same patina will indeed tie it all in.

Waiting on you for the spikes!!! Paypal is ready

Outlaw9

Guys you need to look at the rubber 3m splice tape. Absolutely excellent for gaskets, amongst other things. I have a set of these on order. I think the only way to seal the cabinets tighter would be to seal the silk dust caps somehow...

Gardenstater

Hmm....self fusing Ethylene Propylene Rubber, 0.75" wide x 30 mills thick. I'm guessing it has no adhesive but stretches and sticks only to itself? What would you use to attach it to the basket flanges? Weatherstrip adhesive? Contact Cement? Ayleens Tacky Glue?

Maybe the dust caps leak a little air by design? Maybe the annular space between the inside of the voice coil and the pole piece restricts air leakage to some extent, or slows it down, along with the dust cap.

JayCee

First and foremost, Rob did an outstanding job on these plates. The aluminum looks sharp. However, I'm kind of a minimalist when it comes to bling and my speakers. Said in another thread I was probably going to hit them w/black. Weather's been near 60F and humidity in range of rattle can specs, so spent the afternoon working on these. Decided to go w/a flat black and used etching primer to ensure adhesion of the paint. Must say, the latest paint formulations in rattle cans are so much better than years past.

Here's the process. Used 2-3 light coats of primer; per the instructions sprayed each a couple of minutes apart. Let dry for 30 minutes and followed with same number of coats of flat black enamel. Didn't paint the backsides just left them naked. Let the newly painted plates dry until the fresh paint gloss disappeared and brought them to my listening room. Currently, sitting above my gear...safe, warm and will cure for 24 hours. Next step will be to cannibalize the RD0's and move the guts to the new plates. Extremely happy with the look and even before swapping out I can tell they look way nicer than Polk's plastic bezels. Will report back when completed. Possibly, there will be positive diffraction/resonance results?

xschop

I like them un-bling'ed too.
I'm hoping someone with a fancy laser makes some nice new gaskets to take advantage of the larger sealing area.

pitdogg2

Wait you found black paint 🎨
Incredible!!

JayCee

I still have mil connections. Stealth technology disguised in a Rust-Oleum can and the IR absorption properties will do amazing things. Borrowed from the "range"...area 51/martians. I laugh at CP black paint. This is the elusive black paint times infinity.

xschop

I remember the mil-spec olive drab spray cans we had a ton of in the Air Force. Couldn't get rid of them fast enough.

JayCee

Have to admit, I thought I’d install these and they’d dress up the speakers. At the very least, make me feel better about having metal vs. plastic. I'm floored. The focus/detail these bring out has really taken me by surprise. Rob @xschop, you’re onto something here. Hadn't planned on doing a long post but am so impressed that I took the time to do more. Anyone dropping into this post and not familiar w/my previous post, above, I painted my plates the elusive CP black.

Install
Pics from earlier in the thread show the process of swapping these plates but thought I’d add to it. Decided to do an assembly line after the first dissection. Here’s the setup, OM vs Rob’s plates and disassembled tweeter:

It was hit and miss with each tweeter disassembly. First one, the dome remained on the magnet and I was able to lift it off. Second one, the dome stayed with the plastic bezel. I found it was tack glued in two spots on either side of the dome and under indentations. I was able to insert, slowly rotate and break the seal by using a small flathead jeweler’s screwdriver. Was careful to locate the wire leads running to the dome and ensure I was on the opposite side. Yellow circle(s) on first pic show the wire and the intersection point of the dome…second shot shows where the glue tacks are located:

Electrician’s tape was used to keep the voice coil leads from shorting out on the new metal faceplates; not an issue with the OM plates as they’re plastic. Half-jokingly, but kind of serious, thought about “skin affect” and took the POV that less is more. Trimmed the tape so that it took up no more space than needed. On the dome assembly, lined up an overlength piece of electrician’s tape on the side the wire runs and used it as a guide to ensure a flush install. Trimmed the opposite side and very end with a pair of scissors. Paid close attention to the wire as to not cut or nick it and ensure coverage so it wouldn’t squeeze out and short when reassembled. Pics show a simple breakdown of the process for each cut and the installed dome on the magnet:

Final step after mating the new plate to the dome/magnet was to test for continuity between the positive/negative leads and confirm there were no shorts from the leads to the metal plate. Cheaper insurance than blowing an amp fuse, fubar’ing the XO or frying the tweeter.

Also ensured the tweeters went back to the same speaker position as removed in the off chance there was an XO problem prior to all this. Thought it prudent to prevent chasing multiple problems I may not have known existed.

I assembled the first tweeter, bottom in the array of the right speaker, and tested my assembly. First and second pics (L to R) show the first tweet in comparison to the old faceplate. Third and fourth pics show old plates w/one new vs a full rack of newbies.

Note: the side view of the new plate is immediately after install and appears proud of the cabinet face. Periodic torquing has brought it back to normal.

Test of the first tweeter with the old array…immediately noticed, at medium sound level, how much they reduced the face plate vibration when touched/felt, compared to the second one up that still had the plastic bezel. Resonance was drastically reduced. Tap the new and it's a low thump vs obvious plastic higher pitch sound. Took a short video to demonstrate the difference and the metal tap is so low it doesn’t really show up in the audio. Used same force for each tap.

I don't have a video sharing site, don't use YouTube and Vanilla won't let me upload a video. So, trying a shared folder on Google Drive. This may not work. If a preview doesn't show up....it's safe to click on the link and run the video in the folder. I'll likely take it down in the future.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1y_GREmHQK6jm_o30qgAXnIXL-C_ua7et?usp=sharing

I have Larry's tweeter rings and have been slowly tightening them to compress the DIY Armaflex gaskets. Couldn't get near the same torque with the plastic bezels.

Listening Impression
I did the full swap, 3 days ago, and have 15+ hours of listening on them. There’s a newfound clarity I did not expect. I’ve owned these speakers for ~10 years and have been able to easily determine the improvements made. This one was no different and flat out shocked me from the first song. I won’t go into all the superlatives but this really has fine-tuned the soundstage and instruments. Kind of like when you get an eye test and, for those that wear glasses (I do), the doctor changes the lenses on the prescription machine. Almost dialed in on the final prescription, doc asks, “Which is better, 1 or 2?” You think, “1 looks good” but bam, the second one just has that crisp focus.

Thoughts
Hypothesizing, 8 plastic tweeter bezels between L/R channels is a larger surface area for resonance and, cumulatively, might result in considerable positive change w/the metal, flat rear-mating surface and extremely rigid structure. Also, the curvature is no longer compromised because of screw torque flexing. I have no doubt the combination of Larry’s rings and metal plates are working together and contributing to a newfound rigidity in this area of the speaker.

Rob, without searching through past threads, I’ll paraphrase by saying I believe you thought there was more air and the new plates opened up the sound on your test speakers? I absolutely agree. Another random thought…relatively speaking, as a result my observations in the previous paragraph, I wonder if a single tweeter speaker, vs more, is less obvious w/the change and the cumulative benefit scales to the better with more tweeters.

End Result
I’ll conclude with asking if you (Rob) have more plates for sale? If so, I’d like 4 more for my 3.1tl’s and 4.1tl CRS’s. If not, please put me in line for them.

xschop

When Polk went to the curved bezel to remedy diffraction, they used less dense and less rigid plastic. This obviously introduced resonances and screw torque deformities.
There is a reason why so many people highly regard the early Peerless metal plate tweeters.
You can torque them down and increase baffle stiffness in the tweeter cut-out region.

It's density, In my opinion, is what allows the dome/diaphragm to translate the frequencies more precise without losing the energy back into bezel.

That said, I'm glad you're happy. I know I have been just a surprised as you. When I rebuilt a set of 5Bs recently, I got more clarity and a better stereo image from the exact same dome/diaphragm transferred from factory plastic bezel to the new billet frames. I noticed a stiffer baffle area between tweeter and MW just using hurricane nuts.

Also. Im just as thrilled with the erie precision that these (new to me)RTA 8TLs are exhibiting with the swap. The SL2500s sound pretty good, but the RD0198's with the billet tweeter plates are night and day in soundstage and imaging, not to mention clarity.

I'll make more.

Gardenstater

xschop wrote: »

When Polk went to the curved bezel to remedy diffraction, they used less dense and less rigid plastic. This obviously introduced resonances and screw torque deformities.
There is a reason why so many people highly regard the early Peerless metal plate tweeters.
You can torque them down and increase baffle stiffness in the tweeter cut-out region.

It's density, In my opinion, is what allows the dome/diaphragm to translate the frequencies more precise without losing the energy back into bezel.

That said, I'm glad you're happy. I know I have been just a surprised as you. When I rebuilt a set of 5Bs recently, I got more clarity and a better stereo image from the exact same dome/diaphragm transferred from factory plastic bezel to the new billet frames. I noticed a stiffer baffle area between tweeter and MW just using hurricane nuts.

Also. Im just as thrilled with the erie precision that these (new to me)RTA 8TLs are exhibiting with the swap. The SL2500s sound pretty good, but the RD0198's with the billet tweeter plates are night and day in soundstage and imaging, not to mention clarity.

I'll make more.

It would be interesting to make some curved bezels from your billet aluminum for the Peerless to see if there is any improvement to be gained there. I realize not many would want to go to the trouble of moving over their dome/voicecoil from their original plates so may need to also put new silk dome/voicecoils in at the same time. I think that if the DCR's are lower or different, that you should be able to make the necessary adjustment to the XO resistor value. Not sure. Easy for those (like me) who have external tweeter fuses to experiment and find correct resistance value by substituting small resistors for the fuse to find the best overall resistance.

xschop

I believe VR3's ANTI-diffraction pads will be an easy remedy for the flat peerless plates.

I can say that these billet plates are much stiffer and more dense than the factory Peerless plates even.

Gardenstater

They are without a doubt stiffer. Even when one knows not to over-torque the attachment screws there is considerable bowing of the Peerless bezel. Hopefully this shows in the photo below.

Gardenstater

We all know from architecture that bridges are much stronger and more rigid when they are in the form of an Arch. Polk knew that if they were going to use a low Modulus of Elasticity material like plastic that they would need to arch it as well as rib it, since they weren't about to make it solid plastic.

JayCee

xschop wrote: »

You can torque them down and increase baffle stiffness in the tweeter cut-out region.

It's density, In my opinion, is what allows the dome/diaphragm to translate the frequencies more precise without losing the energy back into bezel.

I noticed a stiffer baffle area between tweeter and MW just using hurricane nuts.

...erie precision...night and day in soundstage and imaging, not to mention clarity.

I'll make more.

I'm pretty sure the MW's benefit from the stiffer area and it translates to the entire frequency spectrum, not just the highs. Low bass appears to improve from the increased clarity, too. Plates need to be used in conjunction with hurricane's or rings; original screws/holes will strip without it. I'm able to apply unbelievable torque.

You can see the outline from the plastic bezel and how it creates an air void on the gasket. Now, it's 100% compressed. There's also a slight gasket overhang on the edge of the cabinet the tweeter passes through and it results in a glove-like/snug fit around the magnet. Any thoughts on if/what the Armaflex might be doing?


There's an internal brace in the area of the two tweeters I show above. I wonder if an even stiffer brace design throughout the cabinet might be beneficial? From memory, there is/are one...maybe two more. The carbon fiber musings from the new CP member might be something to consider???

Thanks, glad to see you'll make more plates. Trey's diffusion pads/rings should be delivered, today. Hoping they'll continue the improvements with the off-axis diffraction and room reflections.

xschop

Because of the thin offshoots of those integral ribs of the plastic bezels, I can see where air escapes along their paths to the bezel perimeters near where the tab cutouts are located.

I've been using 1mm thick PVA foam as it can be reused multiple times, but the armaflex should compress really thin, wouldn't you say?

I've started the work on the steel MW backing rings. The 1/4" aluminum prototypes were good enough, but steel will be the cat's meow.

xschop

Curious...How thick is the flat sheet Armacell?

Gardenstater

0.125". Closed cell foam on a roll, 2" wide. Since they don't market it for gasket purposes but for pipe insulating, they don't seem to think they need to tell us what the material is exactly or compression properties but they do market lots of Ensolite closed cell gasketing materials that range in material and properties.

https://www.armacell.us/fileadmin/user_upload/Insulation_Submittals-English/AP_ArmaFlex_InsulationTape.Sub.EN.US.2020.pdf

https://www.armacell.us/fileadmin/user_upload/CF_FlyersBrochures/CF_Ensolite.MonarchGasket.Flyer.EN.US.2020.pdf

https://www.armacell.us/categories/ensolite/

https://www.armacell.us/solutions-center/document-downloads/component-foam/ensolite-data-sheets/

Grainger and McMaster Carr have thickness specified:

https://www.grainger.com/category/raw-materials/foam/foam-sheets-strips-and-rolls?attrs=Item+-+Foam|Foam+Sheet&filters=attrs

https://www.mcmaster.com/foam-sheets/backing-type~plain/food-industry-super-cushioning-polyethylene-foam-sheets/

pitdogg2

it compresses very nicely and works great.

xschop

I do have some 1/8" thick PVA, but it doesn't compress far enough. It cuts out really quick with scissors tho.

Gardenstater

What is PVA used for? Is that medical foam? Open cell?

xschop

It's available in hobby/craft stores. Polyvinyl acetate.

Gardenstater

EVA I know about. Apparently also called PEVA (polyethylene vinyl acetate). Is it this?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene-vinyl_acetate

xschop

Probably, being 2 carbon backbone (ethylene)
Ive always called it PVA. I have lots of different thicknesses. The 1mm stuff is like $2 for a 12x12 sheet.

JayCee

xschop wrote: »

...but the armaflex should compress really thin, wouldn't you say?

Yes, it does. I made those gaskets about 8 years ago. Created a cardboard template and did a big run for all my SDA's. Still as pliable as the day they were installed and will compress as much as can be torqued. Your plates are the bees knees for this. Also, experimented back when the rope caulk gasket was the rage on CP. Sealed but big fail for longevity, drying out and tore up the cabinet when trying to remove.

I wasn't clear in what I asked above. I meant to say, what are your thoughts on if the Armaflex might also work to dampen; kind of like Dynamat & work in conjunction with the new bezels? You're absolutely right...air gap on the plastic bezel is channeled and a weak link. Don't really perceive a difference in the driver push test time, but probably is helping the bass.

I asked Trey if he could fabricate the gaskets from Armaflex but, as @Gardenstater looked for, he'd need to know what it's made of to see if the laser is compatible and probably requires a sheet vs the roll.