SVS vs JL AUDIO

Hello everyone,
Has anyone done a side by side? I know it makes no sense as JL AUDIO is extremely more expensive. I have a pair of JL AUDIO Fathom V2 10 inch models here that I'm demoing.
Thoughts?
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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Comments

  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,296
    Doesn’t SVS have 45 day trial with free shipping both ways? No excuse not to do your own comparison!
    Living Room 2.1: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Musical Fidelity A308; NAD M51 DAC; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
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  • I honestly can't imagine any SVS products that are going you out perform a pair of Fathoms, but that demo rooftop mentioned certainly would be interesting.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,290
    I'm pretty excited to get them all setup and start demoing. I'm gonna run the Internal calibration and then tune them to the system. Should be pretty badass.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,290
    edited February 2020
    fez4xd7bc93x.jpeg
    I gotta admit these are the fastest Subwoofers I ever had in my home. They are so damn quick it's not funny. They start and stop so amazingly fast. Tight is an understatement. Geez the control these Sub's have is off the charts.
    When you hear thins in other peoples rooms your impressed in all kinds of levels. It's very different when you hear it in your room that your use to hear certain responses. I have many many Subwoofers and none of them perform like these do.

    z9qws7tob8ic.jpeg
    vz3f63ytza3j.jpeg
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 7,815
    I have dual Fathom v2 13”

    If there is something better, it’s gonna be hard to find.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Primary:
    Digital: Torus RM15 -> Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x/TSDx
    Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
    Pre/Amp/Speakers: Audio Research Ref40 -> Boulder 2060 (w/ AQ WEL Signature) -> ??? + JL F113v2 x2 + JL CR1
    Secondary:
    Rotel RA1592 -> SF Olympica 3
    Tertiary:
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570/RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,290
    It's the speed that really impresses me. These 10 inch drivers are so fast and clean.
    I just did a full frequency sweep and found some peaks and dips in my room. I ran the Auto EQ again , adjust placement just a tad and got a smoother response in room.
    I can play down to 22hz clean and strong then these woofer start to really loose output. 20hz it's down -5 DB from 22HZ which is a pretty big drop off. At 18hz it's -8 and keeps dropping each hz I go. No real useable output under 20hz with these woofer unless your running reference volumes then maybe with the drop it's not that bad. BUT everything above 20hz is spectacular.
    Yes I know I know these subs are pretty damn expensive and they should perform at a certain level but in the market the Rave is not JL audio it's SVS. I gotta assume due to their amazingly low price per performance ratio. JL Audio doesn't not perform above its price. You get what you pay for yes super high quality but I feel value maybe low here.
    I really want to bring home a pair of SB2000 PRO models which are the newest models and are getting a lot of attention for ONLY $799 which is stupid low for a quality sub. These bad boys are $3500 each so there is absolutely no price match at all.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 2,928
    edited February 2020
    I honestly can't imagine any SVS products that are going you out perform a pair of Fathoms, but that demo rooftop mentioned certainly would be interesting.
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I have dual Fathom v2 13”
    If there is something better, it’s gonna be hard to find.

    The JL's are SO good for music! Those that can afford them grab a couple and are set for life.

    However, one has to define performance and what they are looking for. There's so many opinions about SVS Ultra, Seaton, Rythmik, Funk, JTR, etc that are liked as much or more than the Fathom.

    SVS is known as the home theater sub but they stepped up their game with the Ultra line. Especially the newer SB-3000, SB-4000, and SB16-Ultra. All have great linear low distortion performance. Audioholics measured the SB16 at+/- 3 dB between 18 Hz to 330 Hz and +/- 1 dB between 30 Hz to 200 Hz. Audiophile performance for both music and movies! Should integrate with any speaker out there.

    I had a chance to pick up a a Fathom with a bad amp that I'm sure I could have fixed for not a lot of money. I missed out but have briefly listen to them and the SVS but not side by side.
  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,470
    Are the JL subs servo controlled?
    Forget “Build Back Better” - Just put it back the way you found it… ~ Anonymous


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,296
    daddyjt wrote: »
    Are the JL subs servo controlled?

    No!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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    President of Club Polk

  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,127
    edited February 2020
    I am running dual SVS SB4000 Ultra's. if there is anything at that price point that can outperform them I would like to hear them. I am sure the JL's are awesome but price/performance doesn't seem to be their forte.
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,296
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I have dual Fathom v2 13”

    If there is something better, it’s gonna be hard to find.

    https://soundapproach.com/velodyne-dd-10-subwoofer.html
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,216
    edited February 2020
    I have a feeling you are going to have a hard time beating the JLs.

    The SVS is nice but not in the same category. And geared more towards theater.

    Give a listen to some of the upper RELs.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE's, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables

    Vintage
    Pioneer SA-9800, Pioneer TX-9800, Pioneer PL-630 w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Technics RS-1500, PSB Imagine T2's
  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,216
    You should also test out subs that use high-level inputs.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE's, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables

    Vintage
    Pioneer SA-9800, Pioneer TX-9800, Pioneer PL-630 w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Technics RS-1500, PSB Imagine T2's
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,290
    F1nut wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I have dual Fathom v2 13”

    If there is something better, it’s gonna be hard to find.

    https://soundapproach.com/velodyne-dd-10-subwoofer.html
    Funny you Posted the DD10+, I have one and I'm gonna do a shootout with it against 1 of the F110V2 JL's. I think one or the other was designed to compete with the other. I just don't remember if it was Velodyne who made the DD10+ Before the F110, The F110V2 is a current model.
    I might be able to pick up a used DD10+ but it needs a new Sub amp so I can have 2 of them. I gotta find out what they cost to repair or replace.

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,290
    WLDock wrote: »
    I honestly can't imagine any SVS products that are going you out perform a pair of Fathoms, but that demo rooftop mentioned certainly would be interesting.
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I have dual Fathom v2 13”
    If there is something better, it’s gonna be hard to find.

    The JL's are SO good for music! Those that can afford them grab a couple and are set for life.

    However, one has to define performance and what they are looking for. There's so many opinions about SVS Ultra, Seaton, Rythmik, Funk, JTR, etc that are liked as much or more than the Fathom.

    SVS is known as the home theater sub but they stepped up their game with the Ultra line. Especially the newer SB-3000, SB-4000, and SB16-Ultra. All have great linear low distortion performance. Audioholics measured the SB16 at+/- 3 dB between 18 Hz to 330 Hz and +/- 1 dB between 30 Hz to 200 Hz. Audiophile performance for both music and movies! Should integrate with any speaker out there.

    I had a chance to pick up a a Fathom with a bad amp that I'm sure I could have fixed for not a lot of money. I missed out but have briefly listen to them and the SVS but not side by side.

    I gotta agree with the JL's being so good. I want to grab a pair of SVS Subs and see how they sound especially for the money I can get 4 SVS sub's for what these cost. Something tells me they just can't be as good as everyone says or they would cost more. Or maybe I'm stuck in the past and can't see past my web browser LOL.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,290
    tratliff wrote: »
    You should also test out subs that use high-level inputs.


    I have quite a few Subwoofer that have High Level inputs. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do for speakers. I'm in the middle of checking out Monitor Audio and I'm not even sure I can step down to Book shelf speakers. I've had Towers most of my life. These KLH bookies I have are just a pair I have to fool around with. They are by no means ever gonna be my main pair. I have them for the Gym or Music back ground in my Guitar space in the basement.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,470
    Pretty much any high quality sub (SVS, JL, Sunfire, HSU, etc) will work great for HT. The real test is 2ch music. That said, servo subs have a flat-out unfair advantage against non-servo subs. The servo circuit uses an accelerometer that literally tracks the movement of the cone, compares it to the incoming signal, and makes corrections in real time, 1,000’s of times a second. The effect on accuracy can not be overstated. It baffles me that more high-end sub makers do not exploit this technology.

    Anyway, I would highly suggest you give a quality servo sub a whirl, if you’re doing comparisons...

    Just my .02
    Forget “Build Back Better” - Just put it back the way you found it… ~ Anonymous


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 9,554
    I think the yet to be released PS Audio speakers are going to have servo woofers and/or servo built in subs. OT a bit I know.
    afterburnt wrote: »
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 7,815
    I also am intrigued by rel subs. Maybe one day when I have less space constraints.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Primary:
    Digital: Torus RM15 -> Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x/TSDx
    Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
    Pre/Amp/Speakers: Audio Research Ref40 -> Boulder 2060 (w/ AQ WEL Signature) -> ??? + JL F113v2 x2 + JL CR1
    Secondary:
    Rotel RA1592 -> SF Olympica 3
    Tertiary:
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570/RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    Quite happy with the SB16 U here. It’s no JL (specific to music) but it’s also almost half the price of that 10” version. And so would bet the HT performance of the SB16 vs the v2 10” would lean towards the SVS completely. My .02
  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,216
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I also am intrigued by rel subs. Maybe one day when I have less space constraints.

    That is why I went with the Carbon. Same size as an S5 but driver of G2.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE's, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables

    Vintage
    Pioneer SA-9800, Pioneer TX-9800, Pioneer PL-630 w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Technics RS-1500, PSB Imagine T2's
  • tratliff
    tratliff Posts: 1,216
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Quite happy with the SB16 U here. It’s no JL (specific to music) but it’s also almost half the price of that 10” version. And so would bet the HT performance of the SB16 vs the v2 10” would lean towards the SVS completely. My .02

    It seems to me that you really have to decide what it’s main purpose will be. Music or HT. Mine are used 99.99999% for music.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE's, 2 REL Carbon Limited, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables

    Vintage
    Pioneer SA-9800, Pioneer TX-9800, Pioneer PL-630 w/Ortofon 2m Bronze, Technics RS-1500, PSB Imagine T2's
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2020
    tratliff wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I also am intrigued by rel subs. Maybe one day when I have less space constraints.

    That is why I went with the Carbon. Same size as an S5 but driver of G2.

    Not size of the sub itself, room to position it.

    Rels don’t have eq short of the dual parametric of the 25
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Primary:
    Digital: Torus RM15 -> Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x/TSDx
    Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
    Pre/Amp/Speakers: Audio Research Ref40 -> Boulder 2060 (w/ AQ WEL Signature) -> ??? + JL F113v2 x2 + JL CR1
    Secondary:
    Rotel RA1592 -> SF Olympica 3
    Tertiary:
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570/RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    tratliff wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Quite happy with the SB16 U here. It’s no JL (specific to music) but it’s also almost half the price of that 10” version. And so would bet the HT performance of the SB16 vs the v2 10” would lean towards the SVS completely. My .02

    It seems to me that you really have to decide what it’s main purpose will be. Music or HT. Mine are used 99.99999% for music.

    This is true. And I am probably 50/50 so the investment/reward doesn’t justify the extra. I’m only really using 35hz down (sloped) so the towers are doing most of the work in 2ch anyway.
    The sub is fantastic for movies.
    But I am a JL fan, used to run W6’s and then W7’s and Slash amps for comp waaaaaay back.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 2,928
    I am running dual SVS SB4000 Ultra's. if there is anything at that price point that can outperform them I would like to hear them. I am sure the JL's are awesome but price/performance doesn't seem to be their forte.
    That's just it. The SB4000 is such a great performing 13.5" sealed sub in the $1500-$1600 each price range. Most seeking sealed would be satisfied with a pair of them.

    There are other high performing sealed subs out there.

    The Power Sound Audio $1200 15" S1512, and $1550 18" S1812 with the B&C NEO sub driver ($500 driver alone) walk the fine line between low output and quick upper bass transients.

    The $1300-$1450 Rythmik F15HD and $1630-$1850 F18 are crazy good sealed subs.

    Also one can make a case for three-four HSU ULS-15 MK2 subs for around the same money. Room coverage and/or dual stacked for headroom / lower distortion per sub might work better for some.

    Of course it comes down to the room and listening taste but all are very capable and have their own strengths. SVS is absolutely fabulous but other internet direct subs are killing it as well.






  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 2,928
    edited February 2020
    tratliff wrote: »
    I have a feeling you are going to have a hard time beating the JLs.
    The SVS is nice but not in the same category. And geared more towards theater.
    Give a listen to some of the upper RELs.
    - The JL's are the cats meow but SO much can be had for the same money or less. Internet direct companies are making some great subs these days. A well setup and tuned system in the right room can fool even the pickiest of audiophiles out there. Great audiophile worthy bass can be had for less than $3500-$8000 per sub....and don't even add DIY into the discussion.

    - Thinking of SVS as just a HT sub is old thinking. Their top subs are better than years past. A prodigious, powerful, low distortion SB16-Ultra playing +/- 1 dB between 30 Hz to 200 Hz works for any audiophile music system out there any day of the week and twice on the weekend!

    - As far as upper end REL subs.....Great at what they do and the target market. The target market would be those that own buildings with their name on the side! $50K-$250K+ dedicated rooms, etc.
    Post edited by WLDock on
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,290
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Quite happy with the SB16 U here. It’s no JL (specific to music) but it’s also almost half the price of that 10” version. And so would bet the HT performance of the SB16 vs the v2 10” would lean towards the SVS completely. My .02
    It's one of the big down falls of JL Audio Sub's. They are very expensive. The 12 inch V2 Fathom is $4000.00 and the 13 inch is $5000.00 for just one. I like to use 2 as one doesn't cover everything properly.

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 7,815
    mantis wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Quite happy with the SB16 U here. It’s no JL (specific to music) but it’s also almost half the price of that 10” version. And so would bet the HT performance of the SB16 vs the v2 10” would lean towards the SVS completely. My .02
    It's one of the big down falls of JL Audio Sub's. They are very expensive. The 12 inch V2 Fathom is $4000.00 and the 13 inch is $5000.00 for just one. I like to use 2 as one doesn't cover everything properly.

    Yeah buddy

    Pricing is a little high
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Primary:
    Digital: Torus RM15 -> Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x/TSDx
    Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
    Pre/Amp/Speakers: Audio Research Ref40 -> Boulder 2060 (w/ AQ WEL Signature) -> ??? + JL F113v2 x2 + JL CR1
    Secondary:
    Rotel RA1592 -> SF Olympica 3
    Tertiary:
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570/RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,470
    mantis wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Quite happy with the SB16 U here. It’s no JL (specific to music) but it’s also almost half the price of that 10” version. And so would bet the HT performance of the SB16 vs the v2 10” would lean towards the SVS completely. My .02
    It's one of the big down falls of JL Audio Sub's. They are very expensive. The 12 inch V2 Fathom is $4000.00 and the 13 inch is $5000.00 for just one. I like to use 2 as one doesn't cover everything properly.

    $1,000 for ONE INCH...?

    (Insert punchline here...)
    Forget “Build Back Better” - Just put it back the way you found it… ~ Anonymous


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  • Excuse my ignorance.....what is an "REL" subwoofer?
    George / NJ

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