LSIM tweeter issues
Comments
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well that Aragon should of had plenty. For gets and shiggles what is the most DB in room while you are driving them? 100? 120? .... It sure sounds like they are driven to concert level loudness to me.
Something is amiss plain and simple
I asked already and never seen him answer yet either @Clipdat
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On the Ma 6900 it's about the midway or the 12 o'clock position.
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That is clipping range. Turn it down and you'll stop blowing the tweeters.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Clipdat,I don't know the exact dB I'm running them at ,if I did I would say.I'm looking for help to try to determine what I may be doing wrong.I'm certainly not hereven to disagree by any means,I appreciate everybody's input.
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F1nut,I appreciate you being straight foward,what do you think about a amp.with more power /headroom ?
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The Aragon has plenty of power. Just turn it down. If you need to listen to it at those kind of levels, you must have some pretty serious hearing damage.2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
Curious what the Db reading is at that level? If you don't have a meter the phone app ones work well enough, usually within a couple Db in my experience.Up
LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
Down
LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500 -
When I have the system on next I will try out the dB meter app with my B&W speakers.
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F1nut,I appreciate you being straight foward,what do you think about a amp.with more power /headroom ?
Tough question to answer.......depends on the amp to a large degree. Keep in mind that for every 3dB increase in the sound pressure level requires double the power.
In theory with your Krell you should be able to safely obtain a SPL of 106dB, which is pretty darn loud. Your volume knob will be at less than the 12 o'clock position, maybe 11 o'clock. A loud rock concert is around 117dB, which in theory with the Polk speakers would require about 1100wpc.
Post edited by F1nut onPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
F1nut,I appreciate you being straight foward,what do you think about a amp.with more power /headroom ?F1nut,I appreciate you being straight foward,what do you think about a amp.with more power /headroom ?
The problem is your lack of control with the volume dial. Like I said, more power doesn't necessarily equate to more loudness. Speakers have limitations too.
Maybe if you like it that loud on a constant basis, a PA type of speaker may be more up your alley or a horn speaker like Klipsch.
As a rule of thumb, to be on the safe side, the 10 o'clock position on the dial or below. Anything above that requires a good ear to listen for the music collapsing or starting to sound shrill. That's a sign your overdriving and need to turn it down pronto.
Another aspect is, you could have an impedance mismatch between the gear your using causing you to have to turn it up to get any volume from them. Sometimes even cables can play a role in that as well.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I guess I'm trying to reach a happy medium and protect my equipment. I don't like to listen to my Klipsch Cornwalls for a extended period of time because of the horn tweeters.I switch over to the 707s because I like the smoothness of the dome tweeter.Does anyone think the tweeter protector may be helpful in my situation? Looks like a fuse...
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Phone db meter apps are not accurate. The microphone on your phone is also not meant for 100+db either. The only thing those apps are good for is measuring *difference* while calibrating a surround sound setup and even then only because it's better than nothing.
12 o'clock is too high, as been stated.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
The Klipsch Cornwalls may be part of the problem with the LSiMs oddly enough. The Cornwalls are super efficient at above 100dB from what I remember. Getting accustomed to the output on those horn loaded speakers and then stepping over to much less efficient speakers may be resulting in asking too much of the Polks on the volume knob. They simply won’t play as loud.
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Phone db meter apps are not accurate. The microphone on your phone is also not meant for 100+db either. The only thing those apps are good for is measuring *difference* while calibrating a surround sound setup and even then only because it's better than nothing.
12 o'clock is too high, as been stated.
Totally, and I'm sure they vary phone to phone and app to app. I use this one, it's usually within a couple Db of the trusty Radio Shack meter, at least to 100-105ish range, haven't compared above that.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/spl-meter/id309206756Up
LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
Down
LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500 -
The Type of music being played factors in also.
Certain types of music, especially rock have huge amounts of high frequencies, and simply playing it too loud even with no clipping will be too much for most average tweeters.
As Tony said, mabye just playing them too loud.
They are not known as a "very high" output speaker, maybe just pushing too far...? -
I calibrated my app to an actual $60 db meter I bought from Amazon. I had to set the phone app to +10db to match what the actual meter was showing. But now I feel that it's accurate.
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I would have to assume the crossovers are already damaged. This weakens the circuits for over heating. Now any spike causes tweeters to over heat and blow.2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »I would have to assume the crossovers are already damaged. This weakens the circuits for over heating. Now any spike causes tweeters to over heat and blow.
Chicken or the egg, which one goes first?
Up
LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
Down
LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500 -
I would expect if the crossover was damaged then the speaker would sound bad even if all the drivers were perfect.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I did some evidence of the resistor heated up for sure
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I did some evidence of the resistor heated up for sure
A sure sign of clipped signals.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I did some evidence of the resistor heated up for sure
Maybe you should get it fixed before dropping in another tweeter. Just sayin'....and after it's all fixed, keep the volume dial down a few notches and you shouldn't have any problems going forward.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I would expect if the crossover was damaged then the speaker would sound bad even if all the drivers were perfect.
Not always, sometimes there is simply an "open" circuit and no sound at all. -
Or he was simply playing music rich in high frequencies, at loud levels.
Clipping is not the only way to ruin a tweeter.....FYI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJFTjX7rQeY
That song at 55 seconds did it to some of our speakers, from simply blasting it too loud.
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That's clipping......hello!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I used to more or less routinely pop the 1 amp tweeter fuses on my Monitor Series Model 7As when Won't Get Fooled Again got to Daltrey's scream (and I was being a tad un-judicious with volume levels).
Nope, not proud of that.
The issues were partly amp-related (45 wpc Yamaha CA-610II, a fine sounding amplifier but not up for concert levels with the moderate sensitivity of the 7A) and partly medium-related (IGD on the last moments of the last track on a 12 inch LP).
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The first and only tweeters I fried were on a pair of Sansui speakers with the song “Time” from a CD of Dark Side of the Moon around 1987. Easy enough to replace those thanks to Radio Shack. Although the dynamic range of the clocks on the track played a role, the problem was clipping the output from an early Akai AVR with Dolby Prologic by having the volume up too loud.
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Well, it can’t sound worse than that.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I'm 62 and previously played the YouTube video "How Old Are Your Ears?" with the TV speakers. The needle began dropping at 20,000 hz and as expected for my age (throw in Mind-Blower speakers in my car in the 80's, man how I liked throwing that switch, plus about 500 concerts Van Halen, The Who, Pink Floyd, AC/DC, The Boss, Rush, you name it never with ear protection) I only began hearing sound at 12,500 hz. Well I guess with my vanity about my age I thought I'd give the test another try with the volume of my receiver cranked up (Marantz SR8012, 2 LSiM 707's, 2 LSiM 703's and 1 LSiM 706). Now this time, amazingly I started hearing sound at 19,000 hz and thought wow, my ears aren't so bad after all, UNTIL, at about 15,000 hz I saw a brief flash of light, but I thought I may have been seeing things. So I stopped the test and hopped over to Tidal and began playing 'Wish You Were Here'. The song started playing and I thought "Hey, where's Gilmour's guitar?", I could barely hear it. So as you probably guessed, yep 4 out of 5 tweeters smoked. You see, now that I'm old I still do stupid things, I just do them a little slower lol. Btw, Polk was wonderful and the kid didn't even laugh at me when he wrote up my order.
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I have replaced mine at least 2x. If someone knows of a replacement that will fit in the cabinet, love to know about them. I have a BAT 200 WPC with their VK30 tube preamp. I love the look and sound but not sure about the tweeters
