LSIM tweeter issues

2

Comments

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,008
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    well that Aragon should of had plenty. For gets and shiggles what is the most DB in room while you are driving them? 100? 120? .... It sure sounds like they are driven to concert level loudness to me.

    Something is amiss plain and simple

    I asked already and never seen him answer yet either @Clipdat

  • On the Ma 6900 it's about the midway or the 12 o'clock position.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,088
    That is clipping range. Turn it down and you'll stop blowing the tweeters.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Clipdat,I don't know the exact dB I'm running them at ,if I did I would say.I'm looking for help to try to determine what I may be doing wrong.I'm certainly not hereven to disagree by any means,I appreciate everybody's input.
  • F1nut,I appreciate you being straight foward,what do you think about a amp.with more power /headroom ?
  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 1,307
    The Aragon has plenty of power. Just turn it down. If you need to listen to it at those kind of levels, you must have some pretty serious hearing damage.
    2 Channel - Dual Purpose system in the works

    Polk LSIM707 I Polk LSIM 706C I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I B&K Ref 200.7 I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs throughout I Streamer and surrounds TBD


  • Curious what the Db reading is at that level? If you don't have a meter the phone app ones work well enough, usually within a couple Db in my experience.
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • When I have the system on next I will try out the dB meter app with my B&W speakers.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,088
    edited September 2019
    jg17512 wrote: »
    F1nut,I appreciate you being straight foward,what do you think about a amp.with more power /headroom ?

    Tough question to answer.......depends on the amp to a large degree. Keep in mind that for every 3dB increase in the sound pressure level requires double the power.

    In theory with your Krell you should be able to safely obtain a SPL of 106dB, which is pretty darn loud. Your volume knob will be at less than the 12 o'clock position, maybe 11 o'clock. A loud rock concert is around 117dB, which in theory with the Polk speakers would require about 1100wpc.
    Post edited by F1nut on
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,296
    jg17512 wrote: »
    F1nut,I appreciate you being straight foward,what do you think about a amp.with more power /headroom ?
    jg17512 wrote: »
    F1nut,I appreciate you being straight foward,what do you think about a amp.with more power /headroom ?

    The problem is your lack of control with the volume dial. Like I said, more power doesn't necessarily equate to more loudness. Speakers have limitations too.

    Maybe if you like it that loud on a constant basis, a PA type of speaker may be more up your alley or a horn speaker like Klipsch.

    As a rule of thumb, to be on the safe side, the 10 o'clock position on the dial or below. Anything above that requires a good ear to listen for the music collapsing or starting to sound shrill. That's a sign your overdriving and need to turn it down pronto.

    Another aspect is, you could have an impedance mismatch between the gear your using causing you to have to turn it up to get any volume from them. Sometimes even cables can play a role in that as well.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

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  • I guess I'm trying to reach a happy medium and protect my equipment. I don't like to listen to my Klipsch Cornwalls for a extended period of time because of the horn tweeters.I switch over to the 707s because I like the smoothness of the dome tweeter.Does anyone think the tweeter protector may be helpful in my situation? Looks like a fuse...
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 8,963
    edited September 2019
    Phone db meter apps are not accurate. The microphone on your phone is also not meant for 100+db either. The only thing those apps are good for is measuring *difference* while calibrating a surround sound setup and even then only because it's better than nothing.

    12 o'clock is too high, as been stated.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,588
    The Klipsch Cornwalls may be part of the problem with the LSiMs oddly enough. The Cornwalls are super efficient at above 100dB from what I remember. Getting accustomed to the output on those horn loaded speakers and then stepping over to much less efficient speakers may be resulting in asking too much of the Polks on the volume knob. They simply won’t play as loud.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,305
    edited September 2019
    Nightfall wrote: »
    Phone db meter apps are not accurate. The microphone on your phone is also not meant for 100+db either. The only thing those apps are good for is measuring *difference* while calibrating a surround sound setup and even then only because it's better than nothing.

    12 o'clock is too high, as been stated.

    Totally, and I'm sure they vary phone to phone and app to app. I use this one, it's usually within a couple Db of the trusty Radio Shack meter, at least to 100-105ish range, haven't compared above that.

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/spl-meter/id309206756
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    The Type of music being played factors in also.
    Certain types of music, especially rock have huge amounts of high frequencies, and simply playing it too loud even with no clipping will be too much for most average tweeters.

    As Tony said, mabye just playing them too loud.
    They are not known as a "very high" output speaker, maybe just pushing too far...?
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
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    Advent-Now gone
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    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,758
    edited September 2019
    I calibrated my app to an actual $60 db meter I bought from Amazon. I had to set the phone app to +10db to match what the actual meter was showing. But now I feel that it's accurate.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,135
    I would have to assume the crossovers are already damaged. This weakens the circuits for over heating. Now any spike causes tweeters to over heat and blow.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • txcoastal1 wrote: »
    I would have to assume the crossovers are already damaged. This weakens the circuits for over heating. Now any spike causes tweeters to over heat and blow.

    Chicken or the egg, which one goes first?
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,060
    I would expect if the crossover was damaged then the speaker would sound bad even if all the drivers were perfect.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • I did some evidence of the resistor heated up for sure
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,088
    jg17512 wrote: »
    I did some evidence of the resistor heated up for sure

    A sure sign of clipped signals.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,296
    jg17512 wrote: »
    I did some evidence of the resistor heated up for sure

    Maybe you should get it fixed before dropping in another tweeter. Just sayin'....and after it's all fixed, keep the volume dial down a few notches and you shouldn't have any problems going forward.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I would expect if the crossover was damaged then the speaker would sound bad even if all the drivers were perfect.

    Not always, sometimes there is simply an "open" circuit and no sound at all.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,617
    edited September 2019
    F1nut wrote: »
    jg17512 wrote: »
    I did some evidence of the resistor heated up for sure

    A sure sign of clipped signals.

    Or he was simply playing music rich in high frequencies, at loud levels.
    Clipping is not the only way to ruin a tweeter.....FYI



    That song at 55 seconds did it to some of our speakers, from simply blasting it too loud.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Electro Voice EV-SIX
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,088
    That's clipping......hello!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 24,923
    edited September 2019
    I used to more or less routinely pop the 1 amp tweeter fuses on my Monitor Series Model 7As when Won't Get Fooled Again got to Daltrey's scream (and I was being a tad un-judicious with volume levels).

    Nope, not proud of that.

    The issues were partly amp-related (45 wpc Yamaha CA-610II, a fine sounding amplifier but not up for concert levels with the moderate sensitivity of the 7A) and partly medium-related (IGD on the last moments of the last track on a 12 inch LP).

  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,588
    The first and only tweeters I fried were on a pair of Sansui speakers with the song “Time” from a CD of Dark Side of the Moon around 1987. Easy enough to replace those thanks to Radio Shack. Although the dynamic range of the clocks on the track played a role, the problem was clipping the output from an early Akai AVR with Dolby Prologic by having the volume up too loud.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,060
    K_M wrote: »
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I would expect if the crossover was damaged then the speaker would sound bad even if all the drivers were perfect.

    Not always, sometimes there is simply an "open" circuit and no sound at all.

    Well, it can’t sound worse than that. :)


    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • I'm 62 and previously played the YouTube video "How Old Are Your Ears?" with the TV speakers. The needle began dropping at 20,000 hz and as expected for my age (throw in Mind-Blower speakers in my car in the 80's, man how I liked throwing that switch, plus about 500 concerts Van Halen, The Who, Pink Floyd, AC/DC, The Boss, Rush, you name it never with ear protection) I only began hearing sound at 12,500 hz. Well I guess with my vanity about my age I thought I'd give the test another try with the volume of my receiver cranked up (Marantz SR8012, 2 LSiM 707's, 2 LSiM 703's and 1 LSiM 706). Now this time, amazingly I started hearing sound at 19,000 hz and thought wow, my ears aren't so bad after all, UNTIL, at about 15,000 hz I saw a brief flash of light, but I thought I may have been seeing things. So I stopped the test and hopped over to Tidal and began playing 'Wish You Were Here'. The song started playing and I thought "Hey, where's Gilmour's guitar?", I could barely hear it. So as you probably guessed, yep 4 out of 5 tweeters smoked. You see, now that I'm old I still do stupid things, I just do them a little slower lol. Btw, Polk was wonderful and the kid didn't even laugh at me when he wrote up my order.
  • nac722nac722 Posts: 1
    I have replaced mine at least 2x. If someone knows of a replacement that will fit in the cabinet, love to know about them. I have a BAT 200 WPC with their VK30 tube preamp. I love the look and sound but not sure about the tweeters
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