A challenge to the king: Audio Research 5se vs Cary SLP05
Comments
-
Dang it
I stare at it and it is gorgeous.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Synergy is where it's at. It's both the most elusive and rewarding part of the hobby and one has to really spend some time achieving it. Plus, the balance can be thrown off by changing just one piece.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I'd love to hear your main rig. I'm sure nothing short of amazing."if it's not fun, it's not worth it & remember folks, "It's All About The Music"!!
***************************** -
My daughter enjoys it very much
She listens to it as if it were just a soundbar
“Moana again” she would request on Tidal.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
What are your main rig speakers now or is that a secret?2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
stangman67 wrote: »What are your main rig speakers now or is that a secret?
I’ll post some pics.
It’s not as impressive as you would think.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I wish it were these
Magico M6 (with a Boulder)
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
SCompRacer wrote: »
As do I. -
My daughter enjoys it very much
She listens to it as if it were just a soundbar
“Moana again” she would request on Tidal.
Hey man that title track from Moana is fantastically recorded! I know from experience as well.Just a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
" I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
^^^ I know!
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Congrats on the new preamp Joey! A friend of mine has A 5se.We have been trying to get together a have a pre-amp shootout. I remember watching your tube roll adventure, but from what I remember you only had the Pope’s in the cary’s positions 6 and 3, which are the balanced input buffers. Which in my opinion make the least difference on the sonic signature of the preamp. It is positions 1,4,2, and 5 that bring this preamp to another level! I don’t mean to rain on your parade. Just an observation, as I found the stock tubes to be a major bottleneck with the 05.
But the AR is a nice unit. And synergy is the key.
In all fairness the Cary is nicer looking unit!
2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
stangman67 wrote: »What are your main rig speakers now or is that a secret?
Bowers and Wilkins IIRC. D2 or D3?Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10 -
Synergy is where it's at. It's both the most elusive and rewarding part of the hobby and one has to really spend some time achieving it. Plus, the balance can be thrown off by changing just one piece.
H9
Sometimes we just happen to stumble upon a combination that works. That’s where I am now
No matter how you get there, once you’ve got it, flaunt it!
Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10 -
I would say that if you take everything into account, the ARC 5se sounds more real and smooth like butter.
FWIW, ARC switched to the 6H30 tube in the Ref 2 Mk 2 in 2000 ( a year after Balanced Audio Technology used the 6H30 tube) but really optimized it in the release of the Ref 3 (2004 - 2009). The 6H30 transformed the house sound of its preamps to being more neutral and transparent.
The AR 6H30 pre's still have liquidity but there is no midrange fattening as with their 6922 based tube preamps. That didn’t please some folks who liked the fattening and claim the 6H30 pre’s are too SS like. However, you still have tube liquidity, smoothness and dimensionality with what I like to call an honest mid-range.
YMMV and there are pre's available with qualities for everyone.
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
SCompRacer wrote: »
I would say that if you take everything into account, the ARC 5se sounds more real and smooth like butter.
FWIW, ARC switched to the 6H30 tube in the Ref 2 Mk 2 in 2000 ( a year after Balanced Audio Technology used the 6H30 tube) but really optimized it in the release of the Ref 3 (2004 - 2009). The 6H30 transformed the house sound of its preamps to being more neutral and transparent.
The AR 6H30 pre's still have liquidity but there is no midrange fattening as with their 6922 based tube preamps. That didn’t please some folks who liked the fattening and claim the 6H30 pre’s are too SS like. However, you still have tube liquidity, smoothness and dimensionality with what I like to call an honest mid-range.
YMMV and there are pre's available with qualities for everyone.
How does the 6H30P-DR Reflector compare to the top-shelf 6922 or 7308’s like for instance a 1950’s Amperex Holland 7308 d getter or one of the top shelf Amperex 6922? Curious minds want to know why some mfg’s went the 6H30 route? Especially when I’ve heard only the 6H30P-DR are worth considering over top shelf 7308’s or 6922’s. -
How does the 6H30P-DR Reflector compare to the top-shelf 6922 or 7308’s like for instance a 1950’s Amperex Holland 7308 d getter or one of the top shelf Amperex 6922? Curious minds want to know why some mfg’s went the 6H30 route? Especially when I’ve heard only the 6H30P-DR are worth considering over top shelf 7308’s or 6922’s.
That's a good question.
Victor Khomenko of BAT used to have a page devoted to the why he went with the 6H30 tube. As I recall, some reasons for the 6H30 "Super Tube" were higher amplification, higher transconductance, lower impedance and it being more linear compared to the 6922. The low impedance of the 6H30 tube can drive a signal more efficiently than several more common tubes in it's place. IIRC it was also quieter. A year later many of the big names followed suit with 6H30 offerings.
In regards to the Reflector tubes, Reflector is a factory that made the DR tubes. ~ 1992 it was closed, purchased by Americans and reopened ~ 1999. The initial offerings were poor, then they greatly improved by ~2004. I think they make a regular and a DR tube now. The DR was a higher quality tube for military use. However, there are scammers out there that remark the regular 6H30 tubes as DR's. There are web sites devoted to ID'ing the fakes.
The only time I ever paid over $300 a tube was with the ModWright SWLP 9.0 SE pre amp. It used two 5687 tubes. Like the Russian DR 6H30 made for military, Bendix developed a 6900 tube. It was a "Super" 5687 made for the military. It was used in ICBM’s. It had twice the transconductance of the 5687 tube.
Due to needing five 6H30's (one for power supply, four for pre amp) I won't spend $1,500 for DR tubes, even if they were real. You can find two sides in forums, one says the DR's didn't make a difference and others say wow, couldn't live without them. Maybe some folks just got regular 6H30's marked as DR's.
Post edited by SCompRacer onSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
The ARC stuff works well in that it sounds clean even with rotten material.
Tubes with less of the tube sound. And they do it with non-nos tubes.
I miss my vt-60 amp. The McCormack that replaced it is nice, but sometimes
it throws a bad recording out right in your face. The VT-60 was more
forgiving. My old listening space used to get way too warm with the vt-60 after a couple of hours. Other than that. I would of kept it. Bought it used at Audio concepts.
I'll never see another one at the price I paid for it.
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
SCompRacer wrote: »
How does the 6H30P-DR Reflector compare to the top-shelf 6922 or 7308’s like for instance a 1950’s Amperex Holland 7308 d getter or one of the top shelf Amperex 6922? Curious minds want to know why some mfg’s went the 6H30 route? Especially when I’ve heard only the 6H30P-DR are worth considering over top shelf 7308’s or 6922’s.
That's a good question.
Victor Khomenko of BAT used to have a page devoted to the why he went with the 6H30 tube. As I recall, some reasons for the 6H30 "Super Tube" were higher amplification, higher transconductance, lower impedance and it being more linear compared to the 6922. The low impedance of the 6H30 tube can drive a signal more efficiently than several more common tubes in it's place. IIRC it was also quieter. A year later many of the big names followed suit with 6H30 offerings.
In regards to the Reflector tubes, Reflector is a factory that made the DR tubes. ~ 1992 it was closed, purchased by Americans and reopened ~ 1999. The initial offerings were poor, then they greatly improved by ~2004. I think they make a regular and a DR tube now. The DR was a higher quality tube for military use. However, there are scammers out there that remark the regular 6H30 tubes as DR's. There are web sites devoted to ID'ing the fakes.
The only time I ever paid over $300 a tube was with the ModWright SWLP 9.0 SE pre amp. It used two 5687 tubes. Like the Russian DR 6H30 made for military, Bendix developed a 6900 tube. It was a "Super" 5687 made for the military. It was used in ICBM’s. It had twice the transconductance of the 5687 tube.
Due to needing five 6H30's (one for power supply, four for pre amp) I won't spend $1,500 for DR tubes, even if they were real. You can find two sides in forums, one says the DR's didn't make a difference and others say wow, couldn't live without them. Maybe some folks just got regular 6H30's marked as DR's.
Thanks! Very insightful. I would only need one Reflector yet don’t want to shell out three bills on a whim. I’m very happy with my 7308’s. Never understood why they started going to the 6H30. Thanks again -
The 6H30 allowed for different circuit designs Victor could not do with the 6922/7308. I really like the 6H30 sound from my Ref 3.
Victor Khomenko has said he purchased all the remaining NOS DR's when the Reflector factory closed. He claims the newer manufactured DR tubes had as high as a 40% rejection rate that eventually dropped to 20% while ALL the NOS DR's he purchased tested good.
He posts in forums like audio asylum. He also said there are some circuits a poor testing 6H30 will work OK in, but not in a BAT or other high end manufacturers circuit.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
Gary Dodd told me that my selectable gain preamp was designed for the Reflector 6H30P-DR, which he said had an excellent high end, but he also told me that his all-around favorite in the preamp was a 1950's Amperex Holland pinch waist 7308. I wish there was a way to try a real Reflector before shelling out the dough in order to discern the difference between it and a 1950's Amperex 7308. Lol.
-
You may have to do what many do and shell out the money and if it doesn't meet your expectations, re-sell it. Probably the only sure way to know for sure. That's what I've done with many a tubes. Most I've kept even if they didn't work out as well as the hype.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Yeah. Except it’s a steep price! Maybe one of these fine days. Lol
-
Yeah, this tube rabbit hole can get expensive.... "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
