PMC twenty.22

1246

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,953
    I was curious about the polarity/phase of the PMCs, so I decided to test both them and my 703s using a AAA battery.

    On the PMCs, negative terminal attached to battery's - and positive attached to + caused the woofer to move outward, as expected.

    On the 703s, negative terminal attached to battery's - and positive attached to + caused the woofer to move inward. Unexpected.

    Does this mean that the polarity for the woofer is reversed on the 703s, or is it something to do with it's crossover circuitry that would cause this?
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    edited January 2019
    Sorry. Wrong thread .
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,169
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I was curious about the polarity/phase of the PMCs, so I decided to test both them and my 703s using a AAA battery.

    On the PMCs, negative terminal attached to battery's - and positive attached to + caused the woofer to move outward, as expected.

    On the 703s, negative terminal attached to battery's - and positive attached to + caused the woofer to move inward. Unexpected.

    Does this mean that the polarity for the woofer is reversed on the 703s, or is it something to do with it's crossover circuitry that would cause this?

    VERY interesting!

    I can see a lot of people doing your testing method on their 703s soon. Maybe even the 705s and 707s also.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,933
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Sorry. Wrong thread .

    Never stopped me ;)

    On topic -- I actually wrote a reply to the "polarity" post above... but it ain't here.

    Either:
    1) It got editorially deleted (possible, but I don't think it was inflammatory!).
    2) I am on time out (at least as possible, I'll find out when I post this!).
    3) I never actually managed to post it (this seems to get ever more likely with each passing day :( ).
    4) I am on drugs. (well -- I do like the Grateful Dead...).

    :|
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,953
    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,953
    edited January 2019
    Earlier this evening, I hooked up my old Audioquest Bedrock speaker cables to the lower set of binding posts of the PMCs, utilizing the stock jumpers from the 703s to link to the upper set of posts.

    As soon as I started playing some music, I realized that the bass response of the speaker had completely changed! The bass at lower listening levels that I was missing was back!

    So, I'm not entirely sure how or why, but the Audioquest speaker cables are allowing the PMCs to give me bass at lower listening levels, whereas the MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire cables that I had hooked up previously simply were not.

    The cables are the only thing I changed, aside from testing the PMC's woofers last night with a AAA battery, which I doubt had any effect on their performance.

    Perhaps the passive electronics in the MITs didn't get along with the PMCs for some reason, specifically in regards to bass performance at 60-70db listening levels. Is it simply an issue of synergy?

    Regarding the performance of the highs tonight with the AQ cables, I noticed I wasn't getting that "center locked in" super clear and coherent imaging effect, and super detailed treble like I was getting previously with the MIT cables hooked up. I did start to get some spatial effects happening later on, but nothing as dramatic and obvious as I was getting with the MITs.

    So, perhaps now I just need to find a speaker cable that gives me that extremely detailed treble, and imaging performance, along with the bass performance that the AQs have!

    Anyway, very interesting turn of events. Would love to hear any and all thoughts on this!
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    Either that, or keep the MIT’s and run them to the high pass binding posts (dbl them up on the upper ones) and the bedrock the the low pass. See if you get the best of both worlds.
    I am glad you have more bass performance. While your particular setup might have its challenges, I was hoping there would be some synergy down the road with some tweaks. Looks like this is it. Congrats.
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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,903
    Sometimes when you change something in your system you have to reposition the speakers.
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    marvda1 wrote: »
    Sometimes when you change something in your system you have to reposition the speakers.

    Yup. Try to toe in the PMC for a more locked in center image.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    PMC’s have a very wide dispersion
    Reviewing the placement (3ft apart) and distance to listening position, wires are going to make the most difference with regards to image at this point.
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    joecoulson wrote: »
    PMC’s have a very wide dispersion
    Reviewing the placement (3ft apart) and distance to listening position, wires are going to make the most difference with regards to image at this point.

    That may be but it co$t'$ him nothing to try them in a different position or with additional toe in ;)
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    You are right. Wire suggestion I made will cost a fat $0 too!
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,983
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Earlier this evening, I hooked up my old Audioquest Bedrock speaker cables to the lower set of binding posts of the PMCs, utilizing the stock jumpers from the 703s to link to the upper set of posts.

    As soon as I started playing some music, I realized that the bass response of the speaker had completely changed! The bass at lower listening levels that I was missing was back!

    So, I'm not entirely sure how or why, but the Audioquest speaker cables are allowing the PMCs to give me bass at lower listening levels, whereas the MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire cables that I had hooked up previously simply were not.

    The cables are the only thing I changed, aside from testing the PMC's woofers last night with a AAA battery, which I doubt had any effect on their performance.

    Perhaps the passive electronics in the MITs didn't get along with the PMCs for some reason, specifically in regards to bass performance at 60-70db listening levels. Is it simply an issue of synergy?

    Regarding the performance of the highs tonight with the AQ cables, I noticed I wasn't getting that "center locked in" super clear and coherent imaging effect, and super detailed treble like I was getting previously with the MIT cables hooked up. I did start to get some spatial effects happening later on, but nothing as dramatic and obvious as I was getting with the MITs.

    So, perhaps now I just need to find a speaker cable that gives me that extremely detailed treble, and imaging performance, along with the bass performance that the AQs have!

    Anyway, very interesting turn of events. Would love to hear any and all thoughts on this!

    My AZ Satori cables I have for sale in the FM will give you what your looking for. You can even take advantage of the TONYB try it before you buy it program....with the only cost to you being shipping back to me in the event they don't tickle your fancy.

    Just a suggestion....
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,294
    Satoris are excellent cables if I must say so myself. They are one part of my system that will never change
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,983
    edited January 2019
    Amen brotha, they are definitely not bass shy. Couple them with the Matrix IC's, it gets even better.

    I guess Victor wants to test drive the cables, so the offer I made here still stands in the event he sends them back to me.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,953
    Thanks @tonyb. I looked up the price of a new pair of Satori bi-wires, about $1,500 for a 8ft pair. Yikes.
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    tonyb wrote: »
    Amen brotha, they are definitely not bass shy. Couple them with the Matrix IC's, it gets even better.

    I guess Victor wants to test drive the cables, so the offer I made here still stands in the event he sends them back to me.

    I don't think that they're going to work in my humble little setup but thank you kindly for the offer @tonyb

    @Clipdat - Drew, you should take Tony up on his try before you buy offer. Very generous and your setup can accommodate these bad boys.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,953
    halo wrote: »
    @Clipdat - Drew, you should take Tony up on his try before you buy offer. Very generous and your setup can accommodate these bad boys.

    I think I need bi-wire cables though.
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    Clipdat wrote: »
    halo wrote: »
    @Clipdat - Drew, you should take Tony up on his try before you buy offer. Very generous and your setup can accommodate these bad boys.

    I think I need bi-wire cables though.

    Do you prefer bi-wire cables? You can always use jumpers instead of bi-wires.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,953
    I like bi-wire with bananas on all ends. I dislike jumpers for some reason.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    I agree completely
    My Op is that jumpers do not give level input to both sets of posts.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,933
    edited February 2019
    apropos of this thread and these loudspeakers -- @Clipdat have you heard of/heard these loudspeakers (kits) or the drivers they employ?
    Might be your kinda thing.

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-kits/satori-ara-2-way-speaker-kit-pair/

    Available with the great regular flavor Satori dome or now, in beryllium. :)

    https://www.audioxpress.com/files/attachment/2645
    (the Ara and its bigger sibling)

    Pretty earnest discussion goin' on at
    https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/can-you-build-a-truly-great-diy-british-monitor.4476/

    Looks like a lotta little loudspeaker for the money.

    62r5t22vqcf8.png
    a9hjrngsr5jd.png
    adprr0k0c3z1.png
    pevfv1dx65q6.png

    Post edited by mhardy6647 on
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    Very cool looking tweeter.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,169
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Very cool looking tweeter.

    All tweeters should come with protection like that. B)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    Agreed. Or this:

    :#

    j2ok808ffqm1.jpeg
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,169
    Oh yea! I hope it's Stainless Steel or Titanium! :D

    I've seen way too many damaged tweeters in my life!! :s:'(
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    This is another good option.
    5mhfhwjtmdw7.jpg
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    That’s a great protective barrier. Wonder what it does to the sound?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,933
    joecoulson wrote: »
    That’s a great protective barrier. Wonder what it does to the sound?

    I would like to think :) that in 2019 they've kinda taken that into account.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,933
    edited February 2019
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    This is another good option.
    5mhfhwjtmdw7.jpg

    m3uqenfbyiwj.png

    or...

    j31421gpu69w.png


    ;)
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