PMC twenty.22

124

Comments

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,056
    stangman67 wrote: »
    Andy suggests trying psvanes although I never went that route. Since you have some on hand, might be a good option. The stock jjs are not worthy but they certainly create plenty of bass

    Mine is the "Extreme" version, so it came with the Psvane stock instead of the JJs. I'll give them a go soon.
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • halohalo Posts: 5,154
    Clipdat wrote: »

    Thanks. I'm familiar with and have had conversations with both of those guys.

    I thought these looked pretty interesting: https://tubedepot.com/products/black-sable-jj-ecc82-12au7-gold-pin

    "The BLACK SABLE process is far more than putting tubes in a chamber and lowering the temperature. The BLACK SABLE process starts with tube selection. Only the best preamp, power and rectifier tubes are chosen to undergo this arduous process. All tubes undergo a 24 hour burn-in under load. The tubes are then placed in the Cryo-Processor where a computer-controlled proprietary system lowers the temperature to -300 Fahrenheit / -184 Celsius for 24 hours and then slowly ascends back to room temperature. Preamp tubes are tested and rated for Gain, Microphonics and Noise. Next, all 7/9 pin tubes have their pins cleaned for a better electrical connection. Power tubes are matched to within 3% for both Ip (Plate Current) and Gm (Transconductance)."

    I would avoid cryo tubes if it were me. @SCompRacer purchased a bunch of them years ago and, IIRC, he said they burned out pretty quickly. Perhaps he can chime in. I think he got them from Tube World. Kühl tubes?
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,056
    I was curious about the polarity/phase of the PMCs, so I decided to test both them and my 703s using a AAA battery.

    On the PMCs, negative terminal attached to battery's - and positive attached to + caused the woofer to move outward, as expected.

    On the 703s, negative terminal attached to battery's - and positive attached to + caused the woofer to move inward. Unexpected.

    Does this mean that the polarity for the woofer is reversed on the 703s, or is it something to do with it's crossover circuitry that would cause this?
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,346
    edited January 25
    Sorry. Wrong thread .
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 8,280
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I was curious about the polarity/phase of the PMCs, so I decided to test both them and my 703s using a AAA battery.

    On the PMCs, negative terminal attached to battery's - and positive attached to + caused the woofer to move outward, as expected.

    On the 703s, negative terminal attached to battery's - and positive attached to + caused the woofer to move inward. Unexpected.

    Does this mean that the polarity for the woofer is reversed on the 703s, or is it something to do with it's crossover circuitry that would cause this?

    VERY interesting!

    I can see a lot of people doing your testing method on their 703s soon. Maybe even the 705s and 707s also.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,056
    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,056
    edited January 26
    Earlier this evening, I hooked up my old Audioquest Bedrock speaker cables to the lower set of binding posts of the PMCs, utilizing the stock jumpers from the 703s to link to the upper set of posts.

    As soon as I started playing some music, I realized that the bass response of the speaker had completely changed! The bass at lower listening levels that I was missing was back!

    So, I'm not entirely sure how or why, but the Audioquest speaker cables are allowing the PMCs to give me bass at lower listening levels, whereas the MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire cables that I had hooked up previously simply were not.

    The cables are the only thing I changed, aside from testing the PMC's woofers last night with a AAA battery, which I doubt had any effect on their performance.

    Perhaps the passive electronics in the MITs didn't get along with the PMCs for some reason, specifically in regards to bass performance at 60-70db listening levels. Is it simply an issue of synergy?

    Regarding the performance of the highs tonight with the AQ cables, I noticed I wasn't getting that "center locked in" super clear and coherent imaging effect, and super detailed treble like I was getting previously with the MIT cables hooked up. I did start to get some spatial effects happening later on, but nothing as dramatic and obvious as I was getting with the MITs.

    So, perhaps now I just need to find a speaker cable that gives me that extremely detailed treble, and imaging performance, along with the bass performance that the AQs have!

    Anyway, very interesting turn of events. Would love to hear any and all thoughts on this!
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,346
    Either that, or keep the MIT’s and run them to the high pass binding posts (dbl them up on the upper ones) and the bedrock the the low pass. See if you get the best of both worlds.
    I am glad you have more bass performance. While your particular setup might have its challenges, I was hoping there would be some synergy down the road with some tweaks. Looks like this is it. Congrats.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,595
    Sometimes when you change something in your system you have to reposition the speakers.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • halohalo Posts: 5,154
    marvda1 wrote: »
    Sometimes when you change something in your system you have to reposition the speakers.

    Yup. Try to toe in the PMC for a more locked in center image.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,346
    PMC’s have a very wide dispersion
    Reviewing the placement (3ft apart) and distance to listening position, wires are going to make the most difference with regards to image at this point.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • halohalo Posts: 5,154
    joecoulson wrote: »
    PMC’s have a very wide dispersion
    Reviewing the placement (3ft apart) and distance to listening position, wires are going to make the most difference with regards to image at this point.

    That may be but it co$t'$ him nothing to try them in a different position or with additional toe in ;)
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,346
    You are right. Wire suggestion I made will cost a fat $0 too!
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,207
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Earlier this evening, I hooked up my old Audioquest Bedrock speaker cables to the lower set of binding posts of the PMCs, utilizing the stock jumpers from the 703s to link to the upper set of posts.

    As soon as I started playing some music, I realized that the bass response of the speaker had completely changed! The bass at lower listening levels that I was missing was back!

    So, I'm not entirely sure how or why, but the Audioquest speaker cables are allowing the PMCs to give me bass at lower listening levels, whereas the MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire cables that I had hooked up previously simply were not.

    The cables are the only thing I changed, aside from testing the PMC's woofers last night with a AAA battery, which I doubt had any effect on their performance.

    Perhaps the passive electronics in the MITs didn't get along with the PMCs for some reason, specifically in regards to bass performance at 60-70db listening levels. Is it simply an issue of synergy?

    Regarding the performance of the highs tonight with the AQ cables, I noticed I wasn't getting that "center locked in" super clear and coherent imaging effect, and super detailed treble like I was getting previously with the MIT cables hooked up. I did start to get some spatial effects happening later on, but nothing as dramatic and obvious as I was getting with the MITs.

    So, perhaps now I just need to find a speaker cable that gives me that extremely detailed treble, and imaging performance, along with the bass performance that the AQs have!

    Anyway, very interesting turn of events. Would love to hear any and all thoughts on this!

    My AZ Satori cables I have for sale in the FM will give you what your looking for. You can even take advantage of the TONYB try it before you buy it program....with the only cost to you being shipping back to me in the event they don't tickle your fancy.

    Just a suggestion....
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • stangman67stangman67 Posts: 1,241
    Satoris are excellent cables if I must say so myself. They are one part of my system that will never change
    2 Channel - Major reduction complete

    KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs


  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,207
    edited January 27
    Amen brotha, they are definitely not bass shy. Couple them with the Matrix IC's, it gets even better.

    I guess Victor wants to test drive the cables, so the offer I made here still stands in the event he sends them back to me.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,056
    Thanks @tonyb. I looked up the price of a new pair of Satori bi-wires, about $1,500 for a 8ft pair. Yikes.
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • halohalo Posts: 5,154
    tonyb wrote: »
    Amen brotha, they are definitely not bass shy. Couple them with the Matrix IC's, it gets even better.

    I guess Victor wants to test drive the cables, so the offer I made here still stands in the event he sends them back to me.

    I don't think that they're going to work in my humble little setup but thank you kindly for the offer @tonyb

    @Clipdat - Drew, you should take Tony up on his try before you buy offer. Very generous and your setup can accommodate these bad boys.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,056
    halo wrote: »
    @Clipdat - Drew, you should take Tony up on his try before you buy offer. Very generous and your setup can accommodate these bad boys.

    I think I need bi-wire cables though.
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • halohalo Posts: 5,154
    Clipdat wrote: »
    halo wrote: »
    @Clipdat - Drew, you should take Tony up on his try before you buy offer. Very generous and your setup can accommodate these bad boys.

    I think I need bi-wire cables though.

    Do you prefer bi-wire cables? You can always use jumpers instead of bi-wires.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,056
    I like bi-wire with bananas on all ends. I dislike jumpers for some reason.
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,346
    I agree completely
    My Op is that jumpers do not give level input to both sets of posts.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,566
    edited February 1
    apropos of this thread and these loudspeakers -- @Clipdat have you heard of/heard these loudspeakers (kits) or the drivers they employ?
    Might be your kinda thing.

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-kits/satori-ara-2-way-speaker-kit-pair/

    Available with the great regular flavor Satori dome or now, in beryllium. :)

    https://www.audioxpress.com/files/attachment/2645
    (the Ara and its bigger sibling)

    Pretty earnest discussion goin' on at
    https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/can-you-build-a-truly-great-diy-british-monitor.4476/

    Looks like a lotta little loudspeaker for the money.

    62r5t22vqcf8.png
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    adprr0k0c3z1.png
    pevfv1dx65q6.png

    Post edited by mhardy6647 on
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,346
    Very cool looking tweeter.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 8,280
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Very cool looking tweeter.

    All tweeters should come with protection like that. B)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,346
    Agreed. Or this:

    :#

    j2ok808ffqm1.jpeg
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 8,280
    Oh yea! I hope it's Stainless Steel or Titanium! :D

    I've seen way too many damaged tweeters in my life!! :s :'(
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,615
    This is another good option.
    5mhfhwjtmdw7.jpg
    Not Tom or Trey or Jim just Micah
    KEF Q150s, NAD 1152 preamp and 4452 tuner courtesy of DaddyJT, NAD C352 playing power amp, BJC Belden cables, Technics SL3200, Marantz CD6004 courtesy of Clipdat, Salamander Archetype rack, Millenium Falcon :)
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.

    Resident Child of Club Polk
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,346
    That’s a great protective barrier. Wonder what it does to the sound?
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
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