Polk LSiM703 - harsh treble vs LSi9 or in general? How to fix?

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Comments

  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,921
    edited January 8
    Get rid of the horrid MP3's and using Apple streaming. The source is most likely the issue. These speakers are more revealing than the LSi9's.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,058
    Are you sure you don't have a bad tweeter? The QC on my first set of 705's was terrible. One of the issues was a scratchy tweeter, most noticeable with piano. This sounds like what you are describing.
  • spongersponger Posts: 306
    marvda1 wrote: »
    i did not suggest going to the 225 watt option because of the power but to get away from the type of bi-amping being used.

    It's 225W bridged, so the bump in output does not occur by default when foregoing the bi-wiring option. I completely defer to the OP's right to self-determination. But what confuses me is why suddenly it is so taboo to allude to a wattage deficiency when time and again on this forum so many LSiM owners have said at least 200wpc is needed for this series to sound its best.

    Denon AVR 3312CI
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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,143
    The LsiM line simply has a boosted treble compared to the Lsi line.

    You either like that sound or like the flatter Lsi sound.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-
    Epos-
    Infinity-
    Advent-

  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,143
    WLDock wrote: »
    I've had the 703's and a friend had the LSi9's years earlier. The LSi are more laid back and easy to listen to speaker.

    LSi9 Measurements



    The goals Polk had for the LSiM ring radiator tweeter over the LSi was to improve the top end response, dispersion, and eliminated horn loading. The LSiM line is more revealing and the 703's have a 5dB rise on the top end. The sound and interaction with the room may create a totally different experience...good or bad.

    LSiM703 Measurements
    912Polkfig3.jpg


    Myself, I never found the tweeters harsh or distorted sounding. However, in some rooms maybe room treatments might be needed? or possibly a little 2-3dB padding on the tweeters like the switch that some vintage speakers have. Or maybe even a little EQ on the top end. Your TX-8050 receiver has treble control centered at 20KHz. Have you tried to reduce the level some?
    EXACTLY!!!
    Occam's Razor.....

    The most obvious answer is usually the reason.
    Nothing to do with power or cables.

    One speaker clearly has about 3.5-4 db more treble, so it will sound LIKE it has more treble.
    It is up to the listener if they prefer that sound.

    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-
    Epos-
    Infinity-
    Advent-

  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,257
    K_M wrote: »
    WLDock wrote: »
    I've had the 703's and a friend had the LSi9's years earlier. The LSi are more laid back and easy to listen to speaker.

    LSi9 Measurements



    The goals Polk had for the LSiM ring radiator tweeter over the LSi was to improve the top end response, dispersion, and eliminated horn loading. The LSiM line is more revealing and the 703's have a 5dB rise on the top end. The sound and interaction with the room may create a totally different experience...good or bad.

    LSiM703 Measurements
    912Polkfig3.jpg


    Myself, I never found the tweeters harsh or distorted sounding. However, in some rooms maybe room treatments might be needed? or possibly a little 2-3dB padding on the tweeters like the switch that some vintage speakers have. Or maybe even a little EQ on the top end. Your TX-8050 receiver has treble control centered at 20KHz. Have you tried to reduce the level some?
    EXACTLY!!!
    Occam's Razor.....

    The most obvious answer is usually the reason.
    Nothing to do with power or cables.

    One speaker clearly has about 3.5-4 db more treble, so it will sound LIKE it has more treble.
    It is up to the listener if they prefer that sound.

    The obvious issue is that the LSi has no real treble extension to speak of so these issues don't present themselves. The LSiM are not bright speakers by any means.

    Quit parading around like getting a few members hands slapped has somehow validated your extreme lack of understanding. Don't think your new profile picture hasn't gone unnoticed and should be reported for the obvious trolling that it is.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,397
    While one speaker has more treble, it only becomes more exaggerated by the associated gear and source material being used.

    A more revealing speaker will reveal your other shortcomings, possibly not as audible on a lessor speaker. So you have 2 choices here.

    1- Start upgrading the other areas of your system. Doesn't have to be done all at once but you will notice better sound after every incremental change in things already suggested.

    2- go back to a lessor revealing speaker and keep everything as is, if you like that sound you had, then you've lost nothing and invested nothing.
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  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,143
    tonyb wrote: »
    While one speaker has more treble, it only becomes more exaggerated by the associated gear and source material being used.

    A more revealing speaker will reveal your other shortcomings, possibly not as audible on a lessor speaker. So you have 2 choices here.

    1- Start upgrading the other areas of your system. Doesn't have to be done all at once but you will notice better sound after every incremental change in things already suggested.

    2- go back to a lessor revealing speaker and keep everything as is, if you like that sound you had, then you've lost nothing and invested nothing.
    Good points!
    Hearing acuity factors in also. Between my husband and I, we notice I prefer a bit less treble than he does over the last several years.
    years back we had the exact same preference, and I would imagine over time, what is too much to one person would become just right perhaps.
    Lots of variables for sure.
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-
    Epos-
    Infinity-
    Advent-

  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,915
    Shameless plug:

    Your LSiMs would come to life and sound SO much better with this:
    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184812/peachtree-audio-nova-integrated-amplifier-dac#latest

    It does not offer a ton of power, but that is not your problem. The clinical and sterile power and preamp and lack of a good DAC (and of course, starting with MP3s) are the problems. This would fix everything but the source in one component...
    HT Rig:
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    ;
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  • PSOVLSKPSOVLSK Posts: 3,814
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    Shameless plug:

    Your LSiMs would come to life and sound SO much better with this:
    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184812/peachtree-audio-nova-integrated-amplifier-dac#latest

    It does not offer a ton of power, but that is not your problem. The clinical and sterile power and preamp and lack of a good DAC (and of course, starting with MP3s) are the problems. This would fix everything but the source in one component...

    I was going to post this, but decided to mind my own business ;)

    I enjoyed by 703 with the Peachtree. Sound was very good and I personally love the looks of the Nova. Even though I've moved on to better integrates, this is a piece that I sometimes wish I still had.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • SIHABSIHAB Posts: 480
    edited January 8
    So I was playing my ole Alice Cooper redbook CD...
    My wife asked me if was live!
    703's -> wire world speaker cable ->class d SS amp

    Digging the 703's. Nice everyday speaker. Mrs. likes them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,235
    That doesn't help the OP's situation at all. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on your 703s and letting us know that your wife likes them.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • SIHABSIHAB Posts: 480
    edited January 8
    Um, I was interrupted. Thanks for calling me out. You could just ignore my post
    @clipdat as it wasn't directed towards you. Wait a sec, ignore...

    The point is the OP might have to play with them to trying different things
    upstream to get them to where he/she is happy. (As mentioned)
    I wouldn't just give up on them.

    OTOH, if you don't like them you don't like them...
    Clipdat wrote: »
    That doesn't help the OP's situation at all. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on your 703s and letting us know that your wife likes them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,235
    edited January 8
    SIHAB wrote: »
    Um, I was interrupted. Thanks for calling me out. You could just ignore my post
    @clipdat as it wasn't directed towards you. Wait a sec, ignore...

    Why are you even using any Polk products? I thought you swore off anything to do with Polk Audio due to this forum which you detest, but yet for some reason still visit daily.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • SIHABSIHAB Posts: 480
    edited January 8
    What are you going on about?
    How do your posts help the OP?
    Why don't you start your own thread?
    Why don't you mind your own business?
    Clipdat wrote: »
    SIHAB wrote: »
    Um, I was interrupted. Thanks for calling me out. You could just ignore my post
    @clipdat as it wasn't directed towards you. Wait a sec, ignore...

    Why are you even using any Polk products? I thought you swore off anything to do with Polk Audio due to this forum which you detest, but yet for some reason still visit daily.

  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,238
    Come on guys let's not start nothing
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Tributaries Optical, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Rotel RDV 1045 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Marantz DV 4200 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 12,125
    Clipdat wrote: »
    SIHAB wrote: »
    Um, I was interrupted. Thanks for calling me out. You could just ignore my post
    @clipdat as it wasn't directed towards you. Wait a sec, ignore...

    Why are you even using any Polk products? I thought you swore off anything to do with Polk Audio due to this forum which you detest, but yet for some reason still visit daily.

    rednedtugent only came here to troll
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,268
    CottageChz wrote: »
    I appreciate all of the feedback here. If anyone has other ideas or has had a similar issue I'd love to hear them. In the meantime I am going to play around with some of the suggestions here and see if I can notice any differences.
    Tons of responses here but no report on what you've tried.

    1) Use the best source that you have, so pull out that CD player.
    2) Rule out a problem with a tweeter or crossover. Play music that causes the brightness, distortion, etc. and see if it is on one side or both. Switch the speakers if you have to or play one speaker at a time, etc. Also, listen to high frequency test tones and pan left right with the balance control.
    3) Are the speakers toed in? If so, you might prefer a less toed in high end response.
    4) Does a little treble adjustment help?

    I think the above is a good starting point. Report back what you find.

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  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,506
    More resolving speakers require better equipment and source music upstream.
    Source: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD/flac | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • WLDock wrote: »
    CottageChz wrote: »
    I appreciate all of the feedback here. If anyone has other ideas or has had a similar issue I'd love to hear them. In the meantime I am going to play around with some of the suggestions here and see if I can notice any differences.
    Tons of responses here but no report on what you've tried.

    1) Use the best source that you have, so pull out that CD player.
    2) Rule out a problem with a tweeter or crossover. Play music that causes the brightness, distortion, etc. and see if it is on one side or both. Switch the speakers if you have to or play one speaker at a time, etc. Also, listen to high frequency test tones and pan left right with the balance control.
    3) Are the speakers toed in? If so, you might prefer a less toed in high end response.
    4) Does a little treble adjustment help?

    I think the above is a good starting point. Report back what you find.

    Yes, I know. Will be trying a lot of this stuff when I have time, possibly this weekend. I appreciate the number and variety of responses. I wanted to have a good idea of a bunch of things to try before I made any changes.
  • rooftop59 wrote: »
    Shameless plug:

    Your LSiMs would come to life and sound SO much better with this:
    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184812/peachtree-audio-nova-integrated-amplifier-dac#latest

    It does not offer a ton of power, but that is not your problem. The clinical and sterile power and preamp and lack of a good DAC (and of course, starting with MP3s) are the problems. This would fix everything but the source in one component...

    This is an interesting option. If I were to make some changes in my gear, I would really like to retain some optical digital inputs if possible, because I also run my TV audio through the speakers, and the connection is optical digital. And the price isn't too bad. Could probably sell my existing gear and add a little money on top and get one.
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,506
    Think of highly resolving equipment like its a microscope on your system. Remember the last time you watched standard def TV on a HDTV? Awful, right? Grainy, fuzzy. Same with audio. The better your equipment is, the better it has to be.
    Source: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD/flac | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • steveinaz wrote: »
    Think of highly resolving equipment like its a microscope on your system. Remember the last time you watched standard def TV on a HDTV? Awful, right? Grainy, fuzzy. Same with audio. The better your equipment is, the better it has to be.

    Gotcha. That seems to be the general consensus here. Still going to play around with my existing equipment, but most seem to think that some upgrades in equipment and music source would work wonders.
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,506
    That's why they call the hi-fi hobby a "rabbit hole."
    Source: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD/flac | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
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