Polk LSiM703 - harsh treble vs LSi9 or in general? How to fix?
Comments
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i did not suggest going to the 225 watt option because of the power but to get away from the type of bi-amping being used.
It's 225W bridged, so the bump in output does not occur by default when foregoing the bi-wiring option. I completely defer to the OP's right to self-determination. But what confuses me is why suddenly it is so taboo to allude to a wattage deficiency when time and again on this forum so many LSiM owners have said at least 200wpc is needed for this series to sound its best.
Denon X7200WA
LSiM 705 703 704c
Denon DP 400
Yamaha CDC 775 -
The LsiM line simply has a boosted treble compared to the Lsi line.
You either like that sound or like the flatter Lsi sound. -
EXACTLY!!!I've had the 703's and a friend had the LSi9's years earlier. The LSi are more laid back and easy to listen to speaker.
LSi9 Measurements
The goals Polk had for the LSiM ring radiator tweeter over the LSi was to improve the top end response, dispersion, and eliminated horn loading. The LSiM line is more revealing and the 703's have a 5dB rise on the top end. The sound and interaction with the room may create a totally different experience...good or bad.
LSiM703 Measurements
Myself, I never found the tweeters harsh or distorted sounding. However, in some rooms maybe room treatments might be needed? or possibly a little 2-3dB padding on the tweeters like the switch that some vintage speakers have. Or maybe even a little EQ on the top end. Your TX-8050 receiver has treble control centered at 20KHz. Have you tried to reduce the level some?
Occam's Razor.....
The most obvious answer is usually the reason.
Nothing to do with power or cables.
One speaker clearly has about 3.5-4 db more treble, so it will sound LIKE it has more treble.
It is up to the listener if they prefer that sound.
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While one speaker has more treble, it only becomes more exaggerated by the associated gear and source material being used.
A more revealing speaker will reveal your other shortcomings, possibly not as audible on a lessor speaker. So you have 2 choices here.
1- Start upgrading the other areas of your system. Doesn't have to be done all at once but you will notice better sound after every incremental change in things already suggested.
2- go back to a lessor revealing speaker and keep everything as is, if you like that sound you had, then you've lost nothing and invested nothing.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Good points!While one speaker has more treble, it only becomes more exaggerated by the associated gear and source material being used.
A more revealing speaker will reveal your other shortcomings, possibly not as audible on a lessor speaker. So you have 2 choices here.
1- Start upgrading the other areas of your system. Doesn't have to be done all at once but you will notice better sound after every incremental change in things already suggested.
2- go back to a lessor revealing speaker and keep everything as is, if you like that sound you had, then you've lost nothing and invested nothing.
Hearing acuity factors in also. Between my husband and I, we notice I prefer a bit less treble than he does over the last several years.
years back we had the exact same preference, and I would imagine over time, what is too much to one person would become just right perhaps.
Lots of variables for sure. -
Shameless plug:
Your LSiMs would come to life and sound SO much better with this:
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184812/peachtree-audio-nova-integrated-amplifier-dac#latest
It does not offer a ton of power, but that is not your problem. The clinical and sterile power and preamp and lack of a good DAC (and of course, starting with MP3s) are the problems. This would fix everything but the source in one component...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
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Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
Shameless plug:
Your LSiMs would come to life and sound SO much better with this:
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184812/peachtree-audio-nova-integrated-amplifier-dac#latest
It does not offer a ton of power, but that is not your problem. The clinical and sterile power and preamp and lack of a good DAC (and of course, starting with MP3s) are the problems. This would fix everything but the source in one component...
I was going to post this, but decided to mind my own business
I enjoyed by 703 with the Peachtree. Sound was very good and I personally love the looks of the Nova. Even though I've moved on to better integrates, this is a piece that I sometimes wish I still had.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
So I was playing my ole Alice Cooper redbook CD...
My wife asked me if was live!
703's -> wire world speaker cable ->class d SS amp
Digging the 703's. Nice everyday speaker. Mrs. likes them.Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears -
That doesn't help the OP's situation at all. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on your 703s and letting us know that your wife likes them.
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Um, I was interrupted. Thanks for calling me out. You could just ignore my post
@clipdat as it wasn't directed towards you. Wait a sec, ignore...
The point is the OP might have to play with them to trying different things
upstream to get them to where he/she is happy. (As mentioned)
I wouldn't just give up on them.
OTOH, if you don't like them you don't like them...That doesn't help the OP's situation at all. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on your 703s and letting us know that your wife likes them.Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears -
Um, I was interrupted. Thanks for calling me out. You could just ignore my post
@clipdat as it wasn't directed towards you. Wait a sec, ignore...
Why are you even using any Polk products? I thought you swore off anything to do with Polk Audio due to this forum which you detest, but yet for some reason still visit daily. -
What are you going on about?
How do your posts help the OP?
Why don't you start your own thread?
Why don't you mind your own business?Um, I was interrupted. Thanks for calling me out. You could just ignore my post
@clipdat as it wasn't directed towards you. Wait a sec, ignore...
Why are you even using any Polk products? I thought you swore off anything to do with Polk Audio due to this forum which you detest, but yet for some reason still visit daily.
Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears -
Come on guys let's not start nothing
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Um, I was interrupted. Thanks for calling me out. You could just ignore my post
@clipdat as it wasn't directed towards you. Wait a sec, ignore...
Why are you even using any Polk products? I thought you swore off anything to do with Polk Audio due to this forum which you detest, but yet for some reason still visit daily.
rednedtugent only came here to troll -
Tons of responses here but no report on what you've tried.CottageChz wrote: »I appreciate all of the feedback here. If anyone has other ideas or has had a similar issue I'd love to hear them. In the meantime I am going to play around with some of the suggestions here and see if I can notice any differences.
1) Use the best source that you have, so pull out that CD player.
2) Rule out a problem with a tweeter or crossover. Play music that causes the brightness, distortion, etc. and see if it is on one side or both. Switch the speakers if you have to or play one speaker at a time, etc. Also, listen to high frequency test tones and pan left right with the balance control.
3) Are the speakers toed in? If so, you might prefer a less toed in high end response.
4) Does a little treble adjustment help?
I think the above is a good starting point. Report back what you find.
2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
More resolving speakers require better equipment and source music upstream.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Tons of responses here but no report on what you've tried.CottageChz wrote: »I appreciate all of the feedback here. If anyone has other ideas or has had a similar issue I'd love to hear them. In the meantime I am going to play around with some of the suggestions here and see if I can notice any differences.
1) Use the best source that you have, so pull out that CD player.
2) Rule out a problem with a tweeter or crossover. Play music that causes the brightness, distortion, etc. and see if it is on one side or both. Switch the speakers if you have to or play one speaker at a time, etc. Also, listen to high frequency test tones and pan left right with the balance control.
3) Are the speakers toed in? If so, you might prefer a less toed in high end response.
4) Does a little treble adjustment help?
I think the above is a good starting point. Report back what you find.
Yes, I know. Will be trying a lot of this stuff when I have time, possibly this weekend. I appreciate the number and variety of responses. I wanted to have a good idea of a bunch of things to try before I made any changes. -
Shameless plug:
Your LSiMs would come to life and sound SO much better with this:
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184812/peachtree-audio-nova-integrated-amplifier-dac#latest
It does not offer a ton of power, but that is not your problem. The clinical and sterile power and preamp and lack of a good DAC (and of course, starting with MP3s) are the problems. This would fix everything but the source in one component...
This is an interesting option. If I were to make some changes in my gear, I would really like to retain some optical digital inputs if possible, because I also run my TV audio through the speakers, and the connection is optical digital. And the price isn't too bad. Could probably sell my existing gear and add a little money on top and get one. -
Think of highly resolving equipment like its a microscope on your system. Remember the last time you watched standard def TV on a HDTV? Awful, right? Grainy, fuzzy. Same with audio. The better your equipment is, the better it has to be.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Think of highly resolving equipment like its a microscope on your system. Remember the last time you watched standard def TV on a HDTV? Awful, right? Grainy, fuzzy. Same with audio. The better your equipment is, the better it has to be.
Gotcha. That seems to be the general consensus here. Still going to play around with my existing equipment, but most seem to think that some upgrades in equipment and music source would work wonders. -
That's why they call the hi-fi hobby a "rabbit hole."Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Update: So I played around with some different sources and higher quality files (FLAC and CD) on my old equipment, changed up the way I had wired the speakers to using a single wire for each, and couldn't get away from the treble problems I described in my original post. I really appreciate the suggestions and feedback I received here, there were a lot of good things for me to try.
I bit the bullet and made a big upgrade to a Parasound Halo Integrated (used from ebay), and WOW, now I see what I've been missing! The problems I was having with the harsh treble/distorted treble are totally gone, and everything sounds amazing! The difference the new integrated amplifier made is pretty incredible. I know it is a huge step up in terms of quality, but I was still amazed.
The other thing that I'm really happy about is the sound of vinyl on the new amplifier. Through the Onkyo, records almost always sounded really flat, boring, muddy and kind of muted(?) maybe... best way I can describe it. I always preferred digital because my vinyl always sounded like crap through the Onkyo, which was very disappointing, because I do enjoy collecting and listening to vinyl. Must have been a pretty bad phono stage, in addition to the amplifier just being not as good in general. Now the vinyl sounds much clearer, more detailed, and dynamic.
Thanks again for all of the input here! Looking forward to remaining on this forum and learning more, seeing everyone's systems, and sharing my own future upgrades. -
Good call on the Parasound Halo Integrated. Solid stuff! Congrats!Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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@CottageChz Have to ask, but what age range are you?
Obviously someone younger will have better high frequency acuity, and that combined with the Lsim being voiced with more treble than the Lsi series, could simply be a bit too hot sounding for you. -
@CottageChz Have to ask, but what age range are you?
Obviously someone younger will have better high frequency acuity, and that combined with the Lsim being voiced with more treble than the Lsi series, could simply be a bit too hot sounding for you.
So the guy solves his problems by taking the advice of experienced members and is now completely happy with his choices, and you come up with this?
Be careful around K_M... the brilliance is just blinding.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I have lsim 705 paired with parasound hint (and oppo-205) and sometimes also find highs (or mids?) somewhat harsh or hoarse/husky or something like thatCottageChz wrote: »I bit the bullet and made a big upgrade to a Parasound Halo Integrated (used from ebay), and WOW, now I see what I've been missing! The problems I was having with the harsh treble/distorted treble are totally gone, and everything sounds amazing
Parasound Halo Integrated, Pioneer SC-LX 901, Oppo-205, Revel F208 + Heco Aurora Center 30 + Heco Victa Prime 202 -
I have lsim 705 paired with parasound hint (and oppo-205) and sometimes also find highs (or mids?) somewhat harsh or hoarse/husky or something like thatCottageChz wrote: »I bit the bullet and made a big upgrade to a Parasound Halo Integrated (used from ebay), and WOW, now I see what I've been missing! The problems I was having with the harsh treble/distorted treble are totally gone, and everything sounds amazing
It's not the speakers or the integratedPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
@K_M I am early 30s. I still find that the speakers can sound kind of bright to me, but i don't have a ton of experience with other high end audio equipment to compare the sound of my system to. And it's not a terrible thing, it doesn't bother me, just an observation. What I was finding before was that the treble was overly harsh to the point that it sounded distorted to me, and that is certainly not the case anymore. I know what you are saying about high frequency acuity... it's obvious when I can hear some high or low pitched noise that drives me nuts and my parents are like, "what are you talking about?"
@nooshinjohn It's ok man! I am still really happy with my choices, and the great feedback I got here! -
Not worried @Cottagechz... and welcome aboard. My comments to K_M will be understood better as you hang out on the forum. They have a habit of posting things which are not helpful and contrary to the extensive knowledge and experience of many here. They just cannot help themselves.
Glad you were able to find the solution to your problem and that you expand d your experience by picking up the Parasound. You have the makings of a sweet setup.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
CottageChz wrote: »@K_M I am early 30s. I still find that the speakers can sound kind of bright to me, but i don't have a ton of experience with other high end audio equipment to compare the sound of my system to. And it's not a terrible thing, it doesn't bother me, just an observation. What I was finding before was that the treble was overly harsh to the point that it sounded distorted to me, and that is certainly not the case anymore. I know what you are saying about high frequency acuity... it's obvious when I can hear some high or low pitched noise that drives me nuts and my parents are like, "what are you talking about?"
@nooshinjohn It's ok man! I am still really happy with my choices, and the great feedback I got here!
Cool to hear. My husband and I have different hearing acuity possible due to our age difference.
He hears the LsiM series as just about right, I hear them as having boosted treble.
With the lsi line I hear them as just right, he hears them as a bit dull sounding.
So your hearing seems more in line with how mine, or at least more similar.
