What did you do to your stereo rig today?

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,533
    edited April 2023
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    I have no idea. Those that rely on measurements only are a laughable crowd (to me). The statement in bold below used to be part of my signature;

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    Measurements are overrated IMO and can't tell you how the perception of imaging is changed, it can't offer any information on height, depth or other locational cues of the reproductive effort. Measurements can't tell you how the perception of space or the size of venue is observed/perceived to the listener. They are and can be a very useful tool for those who are not intimately familiar with frequencies, nodes and the like and how they affect the end result as to what hits your ears but along my audio journey, that's it. It's a guide. A useful one but one that has its limits.

    I built my system guided by my ear, tuned it by ear, adjusted everything by ear and while I may not have achieved perfection (I never will), I damned sure have exceeded excellence.

    Our esteemed member, @heiney9 has a quote by Nelson Pass in his signature that really puts a nice focus on this.

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".

    It's like the measurement crowd needs confirmation bias to prove to them that something sounds good. That's why I stated that they are a laughable crowd.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,220
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    I think measurements are important to verify a manufacture is putting out what it says it is putting out.

    To base purchase decisions based solely on measurements makes little sense to me
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 756
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    I am running two ifi power x ,one for cable box and one for router. They say there supposed to be 20 times quieter then lps.
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
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    treitz3 wrote: »
    I have no idea. Those that rely on measurements only are a laughable crowd (to me). The statement in bold below used to be part of my signature;

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    Measurements are overrated IMO and can't tell you how the perception of imaging is changed, it can't offer any information on height, depth or other locational cues of the reproductive effort. Measurements can't tell you how the perception of space or the size of venue is observed/perceived to the listener. They are and can be a very useful tool for those who are not intimately familiar with frequencies, nodes and the like and how they affect the end result as to what hits your ears but along my audio journey, that's it. It's a guide. A useful one but one that has its limits.

    I built my system guided by my ear, tuned it by ear, adjusted everything by ear and while I may not have achieved perfection (I never will), I damned sure have exceeded excellence.

    Our esteemed member, @heiney9 has a quote by Nelson Pass in his signature that really puts a nice focus on this.

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".

    It's like the measurement crowd needs confirmation bias to prove to them that something sounds good. That's why I stated that they are a laughable crowd.

    Tom
    VR3 wrote: »
    I think measurements are important to verify a manufacture is putting out what it says it is putting out.

    To base purchase decisions based solely on measurements makes little sense to me

    My contention is that there is value to be found in both measurementsand subjective listening experiences.

    The laughable crowds (to me) are those who land in either extreme. Polarized views don’t make any sense to me in this regard.

    It often seems that moderates are few in this hobby.
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,302
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    Of course measurements matter, but there is still a big gap between what we can hear and what we can measure.
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
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    invalid wrote: »
    Of course measurements matter, but there is still a big gap between what we can hear and what we can measure.

    Depends…
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,302
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    Depends on what?
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
    edited April 2023
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    invalid wrote: »
    Depends on what?

    Depends on whether what is being measured relates directly to that which may be heard.

    For example, Frequency response variations are audible. The interaction between tube amplification and speaker impedance typically results in these types of variations and may be perceived by human hearing.

    This has often been cited by John Atkinson @ Stereophile in tube amplifier reviews, as well as, speaker reviews.

    It’s the same reason that modern surround receivers include room correction.
    _____

    On the other hand, consensus among persons whom perform measurements seems to be that THD% measurements are far less audible , and chasing infinitesimal THD% isn’t a meaningful exercise.
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,302
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    I agree with what you say about most tube amplifiers, but there are exceptions to that rule, there are quite a few systems that have low impedance speakers that a few tube amplifiers had better bass than big powerful solid state amps. I've heard a few apogee speakers with tube amps that had better bass than my krell amp with my Apogees.
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
    edited April 2023
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    invalid wrote: »
    I agree with what you say about most tube amplifiers, but there are exceptions to that rule, there are quite a few systems that have low impedance speakers that a few tube amplifiers had better bass than big powerful solid state amps. I've heard a few apogee speakers with tube amps that had better bass than my krell amp with my Apogees.

    Well, I didn’t claim better or worse bass. I only said that frequency response variations are audible, as well as, measurable.
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,220
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    Plugged one of these up

    8tps2leh511a.jpg
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,206
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    Levinson?
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,220
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    Si! 335 model, so far sounds excellent at low volumes
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • engie490
    engie490 Posts: 426
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    VR3 wrote: »
    Si! 335 model, so far sounds excellent at low volumes

    That's a beast! Did the 334-336 have the same capacitor problem as the 331-333?
    Sonus Faber Liuto / Coda Continuum / Anthem STR Preamplifier / Oppo BDP-105D / Technics SP-15 w/SAEC WE-308SX & Ortofon AS-309 arms / Ikeda 9C2 & Dynavector XX2 Mk II carts
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,220
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    From my research, not that I'm aware of
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,206
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    VR3 wrote: »
    From my research, not that I'm aware of

    They were hit and miss for a while. If you got a good one or not depended on which batch of caps yours was built with.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,780
    edited April 2023
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    Installed focus rings in my 8TL's midwoofers and thoroughly tested a pair in one channel. Then phase-plugged them and tested again. Got excited about modding these jewels again...

    ye34ojg28j6s.jpg

    irb1dyw54tr8.jpg


    48u47z03zihz.jpg

    to6wzrioxjyw.jpg



    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,780
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    engie490 wrote: »
    I picked up a pair of Unity Audio Pyramid Signature Fountainhead speakers for $200. One mid had separated from the surround. Spent $50 on getting that professionally repaired. So $250 investment for speakers that went for $5600 in the late 90s.

    These are the ones with cabinets made of corian. Apparently that wasn’t dense enough, because they also have the Microscan devices on the back of each.

    These were very filthy when I got them, so I had to clean lots of dirt/dust from the drivers and cabs. The microscan devices I put in the dishwasher and they came out great.

    The genius that I purchased these from decided to get a picture of the bass driver in the bottom of one of the speakers, so he flipped it upside down on his driveway. You can see what happened to the top of the cabinet.

    22631ucjglz2.jpeg
    7w0waylabeyd.jpeg
    l3pgwgovzu5p.jpeg
    nxynqg2y42oj.jpeg

    Now have them in the main rig. Wow do they sound good! Wide, deep soundstage. Lovely tone. Bass is really good and plentiful. Tone is beautiful. In other words, very musical.




    Are those Audax tweeters? Unique looking speakers there.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • engie490
    engie490 Posts: 426
    edited April 2023
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    Agreed on the looks. I'd heard of the company, but never actually heard one of their products before I got these home.

    I don't know who makes the tweeter. Now I've got a good excuse to pull it and report back. I'll also take a couple of pics of the midrange while I have it out.
    Sonus Faber Liuto / Coda Continuum / Anthem STR Preamplifier / Oppo BDP-105D / Technics SP-15 w/SAEC WE-308SX & Ortofon AS-309 arms / Ikeda 9C2 & Dynavector XX2 Mk II carts
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,670
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    engie490 wrote: »
    Finished up replacing the battery packs for my Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena. I couldn't find the packs for sale anywhere and Musical Surroundings offered no help. Found a suitable battery pack on Tenergy.com. Ordered 2 for less than $90.

    Michael Yee is definitely one of the good guys of this business. We exchanged numerous emails and he responded quickly and enthusiastically without any hope of remuneration. He helped me figure out how to connect the new batteries without buying a $300 crimping tool and also helped me align the light sensors that control the battery mode.

    Now it's making very nice music in battery mode being fed by an Audio Technica ART-1 MC cart.

    dijzk9bmje45.jpeg

    How did you join the wires on your new battery packs? I haven't seen splices like that before.
    I disabled signatures.
  • engie490
    engie490 Posts: 426
    edited April 2023
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    Sonus Faber Liuto / Coda Continuum / Anthem STR Preamplifier / Oppo BDP-105D / Technics SP-15 w/SAEC WE-308SX & Ortofon AS-309 arms / Ikeda 9C2 & Dynavector XX2 Mk II carts
  • engie490
    engie490 Posts: 426
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    xschop wrote: »
    engie490 wrote: »
    I picked up a pair of Unity Audio Pyramid Signature Fountainhead speakers for $200.

    Are those Audax tweeters? Unique looking speakers there.

    And the winner is...Morel!

    bwxe63b07v4g.jpeg

    BTW, this is a 3-way design with the woofer in the bottom of the cabinet.

    s64oii9h7udf.jpeg


    Sonus Faber Liuto / Coda Continuum / Anthem STR Preamplifier / Oppo BDP-105D / Technics SP-15 w/SAEC WE-308SX & Ortofon AS-309 arms / Ikeda 9C2 & Dynavector XX2 Mk II carts
  • newbie308
    newbie308 Posts: 690
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    uiu8vg9jozob.jpg

    The Oracle turntable I purchased recently needs some love before I set it up, so I pulled the Monstercable alpha cartridge from the arm and after a liberal scrubbing with a stylus cleaner brush and some alcohol I was able to expose the stylus. What a mess this thing was. I don't think it was ever cleaned.

    I mounted the cartridge on a new headshell and set it up on my SL1200 turntable. I had to make a significant change to the VTA to get the cartridge body level. That's when I realized that the arm was riding on the cue lifter, so I adjusted that down until the arm cleared. I dialed in the cartridge position with the protractor, adjusted the anti-skate with a test record, set the tracking force with a digital scale, and moved the preamp inputs to MC and set the loading.

    I'd like to say that this effort led to a great musical experience, but to be honest, I don't care for what I'm hearing. There are tons of details in the midrange, Vocals are clear and precise, but the bass is rounded off, and the high frequency is tizzy and harsh. I'm sadly disappointed.

    This cartridge was $400 in 1983. I don't know what that equates to in 2023 dollars, but I definitely want something better than this.
    Sources: Technics SL1200MKII | SME3009 Tonearm | Monster Alpha 1 MC cartridge | Oppo UDP203 disk player | Nikko NT-790 analog tuner | Musical Fidelity Trivista 21 DAC | Preamp: Threshold SL-10 | Amplifier: Threshold Stasis 2 | Speakers: Snell Acoustics C/V | Kimber 12-TC bi wire speakers | Analysis plus Oval 1 preamp to amp | Wireworld Eclipse 7 DAC to Preamp | Wireworld eclipse digital IC Oppo to DAC | Audioquest Quartz tuner to preamp |
  • newbie308
    newbie308 Posts: 690
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    xschop wrote: »
    Installed focus rings in my 8TL's midwoofers and thoroughly tested a pair in one channel. Then phase-plugged them and tested again. Got excited about modding these jewels again...

    ye34ojg28j6s.jpg

    irb1dyw54tr8.jpg


    48u47z03zihz.jpg

    to6wzrioxjyw.jpg



    When you rebuild these speakers, have you ever considered the idea of machining new rear pole pieces that are more precise than the stock parts, or adjusting the diameter of the pole 🤔 I wonder if that would have any effect on the performance of the speakers. Maybe a naive question, but speaker building is not my field and seeing all those components in the photos set me to thinking along those lines.
    Sources: Technics SL1200MKII | SME3009 Tonearm | Monster Alpha 1 MC cartridge | Oppo UDP203 disk player | Nikko NT-790 analog tuner | Musical Fidelity Trivista 21 DAC | Preamp: Threshold SL-10 | Amplifier: Threshold Stasis 2 | Speakers: Snell Acoustics C/V | Kimber 12-TC bi wire speakers | Analysis plus Oval 1 preamp to amp | Wireworld Eclipse 7 DAC to Preamp | Wireworld eclipse digital IC Oppo to DAC | Audioquest Quartz tuner to preamp |
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,780
    edited April 2023
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    They can be made more precise or even larger diameter for a bigger coil if you wanted to go down that rabbit boulevard.
    I'll be converting the opposite channel speaker this weekend. From observational testing, the rings control the cone movement much better at high SPL. I can shine a flashlight and clearly see the non-ringed drivers veering off axis, whereas the ringed drivers do not.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,780
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    engie490 wrote: »
    xschop wrote: »
    engie490 wrote: »
    I picked up a pair of Unity Audio Pyramid Signature Fountainhead speakers for $200.

    Are those Audax tweeters? Unique looking speakers there.

    And the winner is...Morel!

    bwxe63b07v4g.jpeg

    BTW, this is a 3-way design with the woofer in the bottom of the cabinet.

    s64oii9h7udf.jpeg


    Morel sticky domes are excellent.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,533
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    So, I got in my first Shunyata RCA IC today. It's the Alpha RCA and it will be going head to head with the Transparent Reference IC's that have been in my system for some time.

    I might play around with switching the locations of the Snake River IC's, Transparent's and the Shunyata IC's just to see what combo/configuration works best. First up? I'll try it from the Canary pre to the KW-750 amp just to see hear how she does.

    I have always heard good things about them and curiosity got the better of me. I have read that it's a lateral move (more like a different flavor), so I'm not expecting much...but who knows. I guess it will depend on the synergy within my rig. I tried MIT's a while back and wasn't too enamored with them in my rig. They had a "house sound" type of thing going on (may not be the right/perfect description, but roll with it) and the "flavor" was a tad bit too much for my liking.

    One thing dragging me down? My workload, so it probably won't be tonight or tomorrow night. Idgit (me). Should still be some fun when I can find the time to play around with them though.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,302
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    Have you ever tried one line of one brand of cables throughout your entire system? I've always been Curious about this, but have never tried it.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,533
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    I did with the Transparent Reference IC's. They have been in the rig for quite some time now. Only recently have I wandered off again with different companies. It started with the Snake River cables a couple of months ago for the streaming portion of the rig.

    I have had a couple of different IC looms over the years. Not saying I have a preference to all IC's being the same or not but I have tried some looms before.

    But, I suppose your question was for ALL of the cables from one company? Heck no man. IMO/IME, no cable company does the best or has the best synergy with every PC, E cable, IC, SC and the like that they offer IMO/IME. All my PC's are from different companies, with the exception of the two subs. Those two PC's are matched. Same with the IC's going to them. Everything else (PC's) earned their respective spot because they sounded the best in that particular location.

    I am not concerned in the slightest that all my cables don't match. I'm only concerned with the end result as to what hits these ears.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~