Northern CA Wildfire

tonyb

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I’m sorry, but I fail to see how pollution has anything to do with this? It is dead brush and trees that should have been properly managed in the first place, combined with what appears to be a failure of some PG&E equipment that created the mess up north. Pollution at the site of the SoCal fire has made a bad situation worse, but unless there was another uncontrolled meltdown at SSFl, pollution didn’t start that fire either.

It's a cause and effect thing John. The cause is the fire, the effect is the smoke and pollution that smoke makes. Kinda like mold is an effect of flooding. You can't complain about the effect without dealing with the cause first.

One can also say the cause is incompetence in the leadership, and everything after that is the effect. I'll circle back to the 3 choices I gave earlier.

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

While the firefighters are certainly deserving of any and all respect and appreciation, I would save the prayers for humanity in general. We have created this mess with our pollution, and now we have to somehow save ourselves.

A pollution-less society ? Tell me where that is. Maybe a small island in the south pacific....naaah, they did nuclear testing there too.

Every living thing creates waste/pollution, naturally or by manufacturing things society needs. We could all go back to the stone age, give up your Iphones, computers, indoor plumbing, heat and electricity, running water, stop manufacturing building products or making roads. Stop flying, get rid of airports. No cars or trucks either. Even if we did, pollution would still occur, not at the same rate as now, but it still would.

Even mother nature creates pollution, volcanos, earthquakes, Hurricanes, fires. The planet is a perpetual cleaning machine though, mother nature eventually cleans up her own messes. May take hundreds, even thousands of years, but nature is always working to mop up after herself.

Are we ?

At the rate we create pollution, not on purpose, just as a by-product of 6 billion humans and what it takes to house, feed, manufacture products to sustain them all, we don't do a good job of mopping up after ourselves. No money in it, no power in it, no votes in it.

Morally speaking, we should....but who needs morals these days....so we are told.

motorhead43026

afterburnt wrote: »

Who says you can't ? https://www.tdworld.com/intelligent-undergrounding/ladwp-completes-construction-largest-underground-transmiss

Yes there is and will always be underground transmission in congested/urban areas. That is not what the discussion is about. It is about areas prone to fires like CA. Example, how do you traverse the Sierras, the Cascades, the Rockies, Smokies with underground? Not to mention rivers, lakes and other natural barriers. Well you can't, and because underground transmission cables have to be insulated from each other and the elements, this causes capacitance problems over long distances. Again, underground does not work for transmission, except @ shorter distances.

If you build a new generation plant in or close to an urban area, sure underground transmission would be practical. And as long as the topography allows it and the distance is not too great.

Btw, I cant bring this link up. It keeps giving me an OOPS.


Map of transmission in the US, lets bury it...…..LOL.

Tony M

tonyb wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

While the firefighters are certainly deserving of any and all respect and appreciation, I would save the prayers for humanity in general. We have created this mess with our pollution, and now we have to somehow save ourselves.

A pollution-less society ? Tell me where that is. Maybe a small island in the south pacific....naaah, they did nuclear testing there too.

Every living thing creates waste/pollution, naturally or by manufacturing things society needs. We could all go back to the stone age, give up your Iphones, computers, indoor plumbing, heat and electricity, running water, stop manufacturing building products or making roads. Stop flying, get rid of airports. No cars or trucks either. Even if we did, pollution would still occur, not at the same rate as now, but it still would.

Even mother nature creates pollution, volcanos, earthquakes, Hurricanes, fires. The planet is a perpetual cleaning machine though, mother nature eventually cleans up her own messes. May take hundreds, even thousands of years, but nature is always working to mop up after herself.

Are we ?

At the rate we create pollution, not on purpose, just as a by-product of 6 billion humans and what it takes to house, feed, manufacture products to sustain them all, we don't do a good job of mopping up after ourselves. No money in it, no power in it, no votes in it.

Morally speaking, we should....but who needs morals these days....so we are told.

Your post reminded me of this sadness in Mumbai India. I think it's the worst on the planet.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Mumbai+India+Water+Pollution&FORM=IDINTS

nooshinjohn

So long as you let Tony bury you in wet concrete first....

tonyb

nooshinjohn wrote: »

So long as you let Tony bury you in wet concrete first....

Hey now....we don't use concrete all that much anyway. Too hard to be carrying bags of sacrete around with ya all the time.....then you gotta find water, mix it....too much trouble. Cinder blocks are pre made, rope is easy to carry.

tonyb

California...since burying the lines would be costly and maintenance hard, what do you do then with the earthquakes and shifting grounds with buried cable ? It's just one of those areas where your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

California... It's just one of those areas where your damned.

Fixed it for you Tony. It's shorter and more to the point this way.

charley95

tonyb wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

While the firefighters are certainly deserving of any and all respect and appreciation, I would save the prayers for humanity in general. We have created this mess with our pollution, and now we have to somehow save ourselves.

A pollution-less society ? Tell me where that is. Maybe a small island in the south pacific....naaah, they did nuclear testing there too.

Every living thing creates waste/pollution, naturally or by manufacturing things society needs. We could all go back to the stone age, give up your Iphones, computers, indoor plumbing, heat and electricity, running water, stop manufacturing building products or making roads. Stop flying, get rid of airports. No cars or trucks either. Even if we did, pollution would still occur, not at the same rate as now, but it still would.

Even mother nature creates pollution, volcanos, earthquakes, Hurricanes, fires. The planet is a perpetual cleaning machine though, mother nature eventually cleans up her own messes. May take hundreds, even thousands of years, but nature is always working to mop up after herself.

Are we ?

At the rate we create pollution, not on purpose, just as a by-product of 6 billion humans and what it takes to house, feed, manufacture products to sustain them all, we don't do a good job of mopping up after ourselves. No money in it, no power in it, no votes in it.

Morally speaking, we should....but who needs morals these days....so we are told.

Nailed it Tony! I don't think I've read a more logical explanation of pollution,global warming...

txcoastal1

Compared to the industrial revolution per capita we're not even close to the pollution we caused in the early 20th century. Add the WWII and cold war era with nuclear testing ...pffft

Germany and the USA have discovered more uses in recycling in the past 4 decades to overcome the numbers from the 1900's. The major pollution today is from the 2nd and 3rd world that doesn't have the funds, laws, nor the technology.

Viking64

"If I like you, please feel free to make jokes in this thread and I will laugh at them. If I don't like you, this is probably not the best thread for your jokes. Yours truly, the not so anonymous."

pitdogg2

Viking64 wrote: »

"If I like you, please feel free to make jokes in this thread and I will laugh at them. If I don't like you, this is probably not the best thread for your jokes. Yours truly, the not so anonymous."

What?

Viking64

pitdogg2 wrote: »

What?

You ain't seen it?

pitdogg2

Guess not

verb

Clipdat wrote: »

I'm not a religious man. AT ALL. But, I'm even at the point where I'm saying a few "Our Fathers" (the prayer I know by heart thanks to my Grandma when I was a kid) for all the firefighters putting their asses on the line right now.

I encourage you to do the same, if you please.

Prayers for you and your wife my brother. I know that He’ll keep you safe.

tonyb

txcoastal1 wrote: »

Compared to the industrial revolution per capita we're not even close to the pollution we caused in the early 20th century. Add the WWII and cold war era with nuclear testing ...pffft

Germany and the USA have discovered more uses in recycling in the past 4 decades to overcome the numbers from the 1900's. The major pollution today is from the 2nd and 3rd world that doesn't have the funds, laws, nor the technology.

This is true Ron, we've made great steps today in comparison to the early/mid parts of the last century. Our recyclables though, most gets shipped out to china for the actual recycling, then sold back to us and who knows with what added chemicals and junk.

We at least try, which is more than can be said for 50 years ago. None the less, we'll never be able to keep up with mopping up after ourselves, in comparison to the rate we create it these days. Part of it is, we just don't have the technology yet. Our needs keep growing though so we live for today, deal with things as best we can with what we have available today.

A good example of that would be Fracking. The oil is used in part to help make us energy independent, to address our needs today. However the solution used in this process is very contaminating to ground water of which many still use in whole or in part for their drinking water. We just don't have the know how, the tech, to make that process better.

You want to see real pollution ? Go to India, as someone pointed out earlier. In comparison to other developed nations, and given our size/population , we do fairly well. It will never be enough though, can't control what these 2nd and 3rd world nations do....and there are a lot of 'em. At some point, the more developed nations are going to have to start annexing these lands. These minute things we do, like banning straws, wood burning pits/grills, farm animals, even car exhausts, is so minimal to the big picture but it makes us feel good about ourselves. Big pollution is controlled by the big money, that won't change anytime soon.

I chuckle sometimes, bad as that sounds, because some think that when you go to the store, here in the most developed nation on the planet, that those products you see on the shelf are safe for you because somebody has declared them to be so. After all, we pay people to make sure of that, right ?

…...you couldn't be more wrong about that assumption.

tonyb

I'll give you an example too, of what I mean by "big pollution is controlled by the big money".

Your all familiar with that red tide in the Gulf, right ? Was even bigger this year and worked it's way around to Florida's east coast. As it turns out, Florida has a many sugar factories on the gulf side Their chemical wastes were being dumped guess where. If I'm not mistaken, some was also dumped into the everglades. The sugar lobbyists just so happen to contribute heavily to Florida's governor. Sort of a look the other way, wink, wink, kinda deal.

Those chemicals fed that algae bloom and boom...a problem just became an even bigger one.

So while you may feel good because your local Starbucks has changed their cups to be more environmentally friendly, it's meaningless in reality.

F1nut

Tony hits two out of the park!!!

nooshinjohn

F1nut wrote: »

Tony hits two out of the park!!!

Tony is the Babe Ruth of Club Polk...

nooshinjohn

la2vegas wrote: »

And it looks like he even has his very own cheer squad.

I think you have him confused with Russ. Tony’s cheer squad look and sound like they are all on the Real Housewives of New Jersey.

tonyb

nooshinjohn wrote: »

la2vegas wrote: »

And it looks like he even has his very own cheer squad.

I think you have him confused with Russ. Tony’s cheer squad look and sound like they are all on the Real Housewives of New Jersey.

LOL, might be right on both accounts.

Anyway, back to the fires. Hopefully nobody here lost a home, or a loved one. Stuff can be replaced, people not so much.

tonyb

It seems, California Gov. Jerry Brown now kinda admits what everyone else already knew. He's proposing easing up on California's logging rules, allowing some to do a better job managing the lands.

Wanna guess who's not on board with that ?

Environmentalists obviously.

tonyb

la2vegas wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

It seems, California Gov. Jerry Brown now kinda admits what everyone else already knew. He's proposing easing up on California's logging rules, allowing some to do a better job managing the lands.

Wanna guess who's not on board with that ?

Environmentalists obviously.

He's a lame duck. Who cares what he proposes.

kinda the point, who cares ya get burnt up out there then. If nobody who lives there is willing to make changes to help themselves, why should anyone else care ?

Not to bag on environmentalists, because some are actually reasonable and do a good job. Others advocate the extremist end of it, where the safety and well being of a rare Dragonfly is more important than the safety and well being of humans. Have to draw that distinction otherwise things get painted with too broad a brush.

nooshinjohn

Some of these celebrities that lost homes are setting up GoFund me pages for donations to help t(em rebuild.... REALLY??? Some of them make more for five minutes of screen time than most of us make in a lifetime, and they need a handout from me to rebuild?

The level of self-importance and entitlement some of these people have is staggering. I feel bad for everybody that lost their homes, but to expect the have nots of the world to replace everything for you is arrogant beyond belief.

motorhead43026

^^Who are they, I assume you have names?

motorhead43026

^^I guess he could use that defense and not post any names.

nooshinjohn

LOL... An Australian director is one of them, a record exec is another, but there are more. I saw a news report about it.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/woolsey-fire-destroys-australian-directors-home-burns-savings-kept-in-fire-proof-safe
He started off seeking 200k! Then it dropped to 100k and now he wants 20 grand and the wording has changed to make it appear as though the daughter is seeking the funds for her mom, with no mention of the director at all....

https://www.gofundme.com/tracey-birdsall-rebuild-her-life

The very notion that celebs, or anyone else for that matter, with mega millions for a home, needs handouts from a workaday shlub like me, when they are insured to the nines against a loss is disgraceful IMHO... just shows how far out in left field most of these people are.

motorhead43026

Oh well takes all kinds.

When did you start working? That's good, what are you doing?

nooshinjohn

Raising a boy to become a man is work. Best job I have ever had. I would have expected you to understand that Motor... compassionate left and all. Instead just belittlement and insults.

motorhead43026

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Raising a boy to become a man is work. Best job I have ever had. I would have expected you to understand that Motor... compassionate left and all. Instead just belittlement and insults.

I understand, I am a widower and finished raising my kids on my own. Yep it is a great job. I raised men and women. But they had a real good head start, which I can't take credit.

Sorry I hurt your feelings. Not sure what was I said to do so.

You could use a little compassion, yourself.