Efficient Speakers For a Set Amp

2

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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Thanks everyone for the input. The Dirty Weekends deal sounds very interesting. Especially with the 60 day return policy. Has anyone had the opportunity to get some ears on a pair? Also, Dskip, I appreciate the possible offer on the Klipsch, but I am not a big Klipsch fan.
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Seems like most of those prices are the prices you can buy them for just about any time. The Dirty Weekend at $999 is for the hickory model only. All others add at least $300 or more. Only ones in stock are hickory, all others are special order.

    Is that a problem?
    (or, to put it another way, I don't see a problem with that)

    :)

    From my perspective, it's like saying, hey, this Lamborghini is only $75,000, but you can only get them in iridescent purple.

    PS I would apply the same logic to buying clothes, too -- which is why I don't share many photos of myself...

    It's not anything to me, problem or otherwise. A couple of folks posted exclamations of excitement about the good prices of this sale. Guess that's relative. Seems those are the prices and not really a sale...more marketing probably. I was attracted to the pricing and ordered a pair. Then wanted to upgrade to sangria color. Those were several hundred more and not in stock. That led to the cancelling of my order as it wasn't nearly as attractive to me then. Just passing my experience along.

    As far as the Lamborghini for $75,000, well, a **** is a **** no matter what gaudy color you use. I'll save my 75k.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    edited October 2018
    This thread has led me to drag out my Bob Brines designed mass loaded folded, tapered quarter-wave tube (ML TQWT) enclosures, equipped with slightly modified Radio Shack 40-1354 5-1/4" twincone drivers and hook 'em up to the 2A3 amp.

    9601793718_286e8ec09a_b.jpgDSC_6398 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    (obviously an old photo!)

    The 40-1354 IMO is one of the best sounding things ever to come out of a Radio Shack store, and one of the best values for which they were ever responsible when they were closed out for five bucks a pop in the mid 1990s (or thereabouts)! :)

    YMMV, of course. B)

    Further details as circumstances warrant.

    12289315386_cf252f4e11_b.jpgDSCN5289 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    (another legacy photo)
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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Looks like big brother and little brother. And the sound Mhardy?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    Well, I think they sound quite good, but I am very biased.
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Well, I think they sound quite good, but I am very biased.

    Auto bias or self bias?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    cathode biased :)
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,993
    Well daggum, I've GOT to get busy building those boxes for my Radio Shacks now.
    @mhardy6647 :
    - How much Polyfill should I plan to use?
    - 3" dia x 4.5" L port tube as per the drawerings?
    - Anything else besides Dynamat to baskets?

    Thanks for any help!
    Craig
    b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
    Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
    Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
    Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
    Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
    Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
    Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet
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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Sigh. You all are making me think about a DIY speaker. But winter is right around the corner and I should have some extra time on my hands. Hmm......
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    edited October 2018
    vcwatkins wrote: »
    Well daggum, I've GOT to get busy building those boxes for my Radio Shacks now.
    @mhardy6647 :
    - How much Polyfill should I plan to use?
    - 3" dia x 4.5" L port tube as per the drawerings?
    - Anything else besides Dynamat to baskets?

    Thanks for any help!
    Craig

    Ya kind of have to stuff 'em to taste. I think I used long-fiber wool, but I'd have to pull out a driver and check. I know I have a piece of that egg-crate foam back behind the driver on the 'back wall', so to speak, but I don't remember about the stuffing. Built these a long time ago, during the/my full range driver craze :)
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,993
    Gotcha, many thanks!
    b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
    Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
    Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
    Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
    Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
    Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
    Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Seems like most of those prices are the prices you can buy them for just about any time. The Dirty Weekend at $999 is for the hickory model only. All others add at least $300 or more. Only ones in stock are hickory, all others are special order.

    Colors other than Rustic Hickory are a $100 - $300 upcharge.

    Rustic Hickory N/C
    Rustic Hickory Black $100
    Maple Natural $200
    Maple Ghost Black $300
    Maple Sangria $300
    Maple Electric Blue $300
    Walnut American $300
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    I was thinking about karma-ing another pair of unprepossessing (mrhspeak for cheap) FR drivers sometime soon...

    Just thought that worth mentioning.

    A high-ish Qts "fullrange" driver and some plywood can be turned into open baffle loudspeakers that can be surprisingly good.

    Again, just sayin'.

    :)

    http://jelabsarch.blogspot.com/2012/06/open-baffle.html

    OBs can be aesthetic, too, if one is inclined to invest a little effort into 'em.


    4oaac1hz0j6t.png

    w2e6aq9749xs.png


    PS So... if you're OB-curious ;) and if you want to go totally out into the deep space of open baffleism, there's always this thread at AK. All 133 pages of it. :|

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/open-baffle-epiphany.566879/

    N.B. Not all OBs use full range drivers and not all OBs are meant for low-power/fleapower amplification, as that AK thread will amply demonstrate :) Indeed, some of the OB implementations in that thread are, to put it kindly, sort of Byzantine in their complexity. You have been warned. :)
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    edited October 2018
    Listenin' (finally) to the aforementioned ML TQWTs "properly". Slight toe-in, about 10 feet apart. Grateful Dead's aoxomoxoa (the expanded, remastered version of the remix) via single-ended 2A3 and the sound is excellent. I had forgotten how transparent is the sound from these speakers.

    Less dynamic than the Big Boys, of course, but very very nice tone and presentation overall. No tweeters needed (at least for my aged ears) with Dave "Planet10" Dlugos' phase plugs installed on the 40-1354s.

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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I was thinking about karma-ing another pair of unprepossessing (mrhspeak for cheap) FR drivers sometime soon...

    Just thought that worth mentioning.

    A high-ish Qts "fullrange" driver and some plywood can be turned into open baffle loudspeakers that can be surprisingly good.

    Again, just sayin'.

    :)

    http://jelabsarch.blogspot.com/2012/06/open-baffle.html

    OBs can be aesthetic, too, if one is inclined to invest a little effort into 'em.


    4oaac1hz0j6t.png

    w2e6aq9749xs.png


    PS So... if you're OB-curious ;) and if you want to go totally out into the deep space of open baffleism, there's always this thread at AK. All 133 pages of it. :|

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/open-baffle-epiphany.566879/

    N.B. Not all OBs use full range drivers and not all OBs are meant for low-power/fleapower amplification, as that AK thread will amply demonstrate :) Indeed, some of the OB implementations in that thread are, to put it kindly, sort of Byzantine in their complexity. You have been warned. :)

    So, just a quick update. Mr Hardy was kind enough to karma a pair of 8" full range drivers to me and I am in the process of building a pair of open baffle speakers per the above mentioned jelabsarch blog. We ( Mr Hardy and I) are not sure what the specs for the drivers are, but for the cost of a sheet of plywood and some time I am excited about this project. I will be posting some pics and details in the next couple of weeks as I work on them. I have looked at full range speakers that others here have mentioned/recommended and I am intrigued by them. That said, I think my next project when the current OB project is done is to put together a set of DIY bass reflex, full range speakers together. I am very interested in the FR drivers that Audio Nirvana manufactures, sells and markets. I like working/creating things like this, and if I can put together a pair of FR speakers for a fraction of the cost of say, Zu, Decware, Omega etc, I am in. Any input etc in regards to full range speakers is greatly appreciated.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    All I ask is that you manage your expectations when it comes to those little 8" twincones :) We ain't talkin' WE755c here. :|

    If you find anything about them intriguing, we just might have to find you some better drivers.

    Meanwhile, there're a coupla threads on the EV "Wolverine" LS-8 goin' at AA lately.

    https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/18/181986.html
    https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/18/181973.html

    and honorable mention:
    https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/18/181956.html

    oh, and... speaking of AA and speaking of OBs :)
    This just popped up there today:

    https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/18/182008.html

    3bxs9cc2ytz2.png
    553w234q7nug.png

    (looks like this thing may've already been sold...)
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  • codycatalist
    codycatalist Posts: 2,662
    Doc is indeed a stand up guy. Hope you like the sound of those FR drivers enough to dive in. I pondered the idea as well but need to get my current system up snuff before I pivot in a different direction.

    Still want to try a Tube pre and SS amp before I go full tube.
    Just a dude doing dude-ly things

    "Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
    " I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
    "Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
    "Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
    "Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    FWIW, I feel like a freeloader here @ Club Polk.
    So many folks here have done so many above & beyond things for me -- and, unlike some folks here, it's not like I cannot afford to buy stuff on the open market.

    I won't name names or even mention specific items here (neither the right place nor
    time) but there are so many kind and generous people here. It's a wonderful place (Vanilla forum s/w notwithstanding ;) ).

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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Open baffle speaker update will be here sometime tomorrow. :D
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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Oh, Mhardy, yes you are a freeloader. Some day you will step up to the plate and offer something of significence. Did I spell that correctly?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    I've got a nice little 1970s Technics receiver downstairs to karma... I need to clean the controls and make sure it'll pass the Smoke Test for more than the 5 minutes or so I ran it when I picked it up! :p

    Maybe something with those glowwy little firebottles in it, sometime, too?!

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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    So I have been working on a pair of open baffle speakers to experiment with. A sheet of 4' x 8' maple plywood and away we go. I don't have the proper table saw to handle large pieces of wood, so I used a circular saw with a good "new" blade and a guide to run the saw along. Most of the cuts came out good, but a few not perfect. Got things put together yesterday afternoon and did a quick audition. Surprising as to how relatively good they sound. Big soundstage and the mids were very nice. Highs were so so. Some of the bass on a few songs was pretty flubby. I have no idea as to the quality or specs of the 8" drivers Mhardy karma'ed to me, but all in all it is a very nice sound. Next up I am going to look for some other higher quality drivers to take it up a notch. w9s1d24nyg05.jpg
    su2jcrftp8cf.jpg
    25fcmvzs4u9k.jpg
    o22tfhd5k6ul.jpg
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    edited November 2018
    Maple plywood?! nice.

    I see you started right out with the supertweeter shelves. :) Good idea -- that'll help with the highs, pretty much no matter what drivers you end up trying next.

    Your OBs turned out very nicely!
    Time to start searching for a pair of Altec 755c drivers, I guess.

    :)

    lm1rsbic8aeq.png

    http://jelabsarch.blogspot.com/2012/06/wealtec-755-part-1.html

    PS It's OK to augment with a subwoofer, too, if you have one handy :)
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  • tonyp063
    tonyp063 Posts: 1,088
    I'd like to hear a Wild Burro Betsy in those.
    Nicely done.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Faustin wrote: »
    So I have been working on a pair of open baffle speakers to experiment with. A sheet of 4' x 8' maple plywood and away we go. I don't have the proper table saw to handle large pieces of wood, so I used a circular saw with a good "new" blade and a guide to run the saw along. Most of the cuts came out good, but a few not perfect. Got things put together yesterday afternoon and did a quick audition. Surprising as to how relatively good they sound. Big soundstage and the mids were very nice. Highs were so so. Some of the bass on a few songs was pretty flubby. I have no idea as to the quality or specs of the 8" drivers Mhardy karma'ed to me, but all in all it is a very nice sound. Next up I am going to look for some other higher quality drivers to take it up a notch. w9s1d24nyg05.jpg
    su2jcrftp8cf.jpg
    25fcmvzs4u9k.jpg
    o22tfhd5k6ul.jpg

    Very nice work sir! Question though, the size of the face of the plywood? Is it performance based, or just aesthetic?
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,653
    verb wrote: »
    Very nice work sir! Question though, the size of the face of the plywood? Is it performance based, or just aesthetic?

    Performance based. You want a baffle large enough to block as much of the rear waves and front waves as possible to avoid cancellation but at the same time, you obviously can't go TOO big or they just aren't practical.

    Some of the methods to reduce the baffle size is to build them 3 sided so that that extra area has the same effect without looking like large panels of wood. Hehe.

    That being said, there is something about the large panel open baffle designs I dig.

    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Here is the info on the baffle design. I have something in mind to try next with the current design.

    http://jelabsarch.blogspot.com/2012/06/open-baffle.html
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    I just happened to see this at AA, so I figured I'd just kind of drop it over here...

    :)

    https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/18/182086.html

    37rz8kv9jbo0.png

    A different approach to doing an OB ("Wings" -- same net effect, though, at least more or less) and a better (although still quite modest, and modestly priced) vintage "fullrange" driver... but it sounds like the AA poster's having fun.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Interesting examples of OB's. Is there a formula, or rule of thumb, as to the size? In general, it looks like the OB is at least 10X the size of the driver. I'm an engineer, after all. :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,911
    See the chart on the baffle width vs. cutoff frequency in the link @Faustin posted from Joseph Esmilla's blog archive.

    There are multiple schools of thought, though, down to and including designs using no baffles at all.

    There is a mammoth thread at AK on open baffles -- and I am sure there are others scattered about in cyberspace.
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/open-baffle-epiphany.566879/

    Personally, I like simple, and with a decent and appropriate driver, the ones described in the JE Labs blog (which originated in a Japanese hifi magazine or book) are good.

    OBs, to my way of thinking, are a good way to experiment. A good extended range driver that gets the midrange right and a single-ended amplifier can be pretty surprising. It's a very different listening experience than the traditional "audiophile" boom and sizzle. It's not gonna do the job for everybody, though, of course. :)
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