Why are Tube Pre-Amps so Expensive?

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    edited August 2018
    Where are you seeing preamps for "well under" a grand on Aric's site?

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  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 764
    What are the thoughts on preamps with surface mounted and "micro parts"? A few of the preamps mentioned have them. But lets keep this in the context of upper midfi sound.

    I have an idea they can't compete......but can they be "good enough" if on a budget? I guess I am biased and like "real" resistors and caps. Something you can fix if they break.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    edited August 2018
    Unrelated: I don't like the term "Mid-Fi".
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,062
    I don't like the phrase "back in the day".
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  • WagnerRC
    WagnerRC Posts: 2,157
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Where are you seeing preamps for "well under" a grand on Aric's site?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/153130665777
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    Thank you, sir! I find it amusing how many line level preamps fail to provide that elusive 5th input. ;)
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    A balance control (or L and R volume controls or trimmers) is a very good thing to have. I wish I had one sometimes.
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  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 764
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Unrelated: I don't like the term "Mid-Fi".

    I don't like it either......I want good sound too but sometimes you need to draw an arbitrary line sometimes.

    Reading some reviews online (not here thankfully) spending under a grand on any piece of equipment isn"t even close. "It sucks and is not even close to my $10,000 (fill in the blank). Get get that instead"

    That's why I like it here. A lot of people that know true Hi-Fi and appreciate good sound. But these same people also understand reality and can give you an unbiased opinion. Does it sound good for the price or not.

    I value this kind of input.


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  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 764
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    A balance control (or L and R volume controls or trimmers) is a very good thing to have. I wish I had one sometimes.

    I have to agree with you there. Every now and then you think something is messed up and doesn't sound right. A quick R-L sweep can quickly narrow it down.

    Usually it is nothing but it is a quick check. Then you can get back to listening.

    I can do without it but I will eventually miss it too.

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    I certainly understand the functional purpose and real world situations where a balance control would be useful.

    I'm simply stating that for my own preference of a minimalist preamp design, I would prefer to not have a balance control in the signal path.
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  • stretchl
    stretchl Posts: 1,334
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I like everything about it except the fact that it has a balance control on the front panel.

    Bc you don’t like balance controls or bc you don’t like the placement? With the tinnitus in my right ear I’m very thankful for the balance control on my Joule.

    Just curious.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    - Isaac Asimov
    Hi-Fi
    Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
    Cabling by Groneberg
    Visuals
    https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
    bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
    http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto
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  • stretchl
    stretchl Posts: 1,334
    edited August 2018
    Woops. Just saw the answer to this, above. Carry on...
    stretchl wrote: »
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I like everything about it except the fact that it has a balance control on the front panel.

    Bc you don’t like balance controls or bc you don’t like the placement? With the tinnitus in my right ear I’m very thankful for the balance control on my Joule.

    Just curious.

    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    - Isaac Asimov
    Hi-Fi
    Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
    Cabling by Groneberg
    Visuals
    https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
    bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
    http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto
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  • stretchl
    stretchl Posts: 1,334
    I remember my first bad acid trip.
    Viking64 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    no one says you have to use them. Many have a switch that take them out of circuit as well.
    NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!! :p

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqJgCUmP6DQ

    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    - Isaac Asimov
    Hi-Fi
    Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
    Cabling by Groneberg
    Visuals
    https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
    bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
    http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    I like that!
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    "Why are Tube Pre-Amps so Expensive?"

    Cause folks keep buying them.... :D
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • TEAforONE
    TEAforONE Posts: 1,026
    Aric Audio has the Unlimited w/phono stage for $950. If you contact Aric,you can get the Unlimited without phono for about $100 less. That puts a brand new tube pre at $850.
    See my profile for list of gear.
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    I've had surprisingly many situations where I found the balance control to be very handy. I can understand the minimalist approach though. My opinion is I wouldn't let that get in the way of a good deal on a tube pre if it had a balance control bo matter what the brand might be, but obviously your mileage may vary.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    stretchl wrote: »
    Woops. Just saw the answer to this, above. Carry on...
    stretchl wrote: »
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I like everything about it except the fact that it has a balance control on the front panel.

    Bc you don’t like balance controls or bc you don’t like the placement? With the tinnitus in my right ear I’m very thankful for the balance control on my Joule.

    Just curious.
    Yup, his position is fair enough.


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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    edited August 2018
    FWIW -- and semi-on-topic :p -- I think it's a darned shame that so many components, even pretty chi-chi ones, use resistive attenuators instead of a transformer or autoformer volume control. A normal resistive volume control is not a constant impedance device -- and the effects of that can be audible, even if only as a maximum in hum or noise (however slight!) near mid-level attenuation of the pot(s). :(

    Now, it is possible to make "pad" type resistive volume controls (of course!) and in fairness I do think some components use constant-impedance attenuators... but many don't.

    All this being said, I'd encourage any and all of y'all who may not have heard a TVC or AVC to give one a listen some time (ideally on your own hifi). I'm a big fan.

    http://www.intactaudio.com/
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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,901
    edited August 2018
    Before I bought my DeHavilland Ultraverve 3 preamp a local guy had a mint $7k active placette preamp for $1500. he let me bring it home to put into my system and as much as I wanted to fall in love with this super bargain I had a demo DeHavilland in house at the same time and decided to pay double the amount for my new pre.

    for whatever reason it didn't float my boat.
    https://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/1107pla/index.html
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    stretchl wrote: »
    With the tinnitus in my right ear I’m very thankful for the balance control on my Joule.


    To invoke Chaka Khan, I feel for you... I get it in my left ear before a migraine sets in.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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