Dedicated line for amplifiers

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Comments

  • Manticore
    Manticore Posts: 408
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Looks great! Nice choice of protector. Mike holmes is a BOSS!!!!

    Well if he endorses it IT MUST BE GOOD!!!Lol
    Thanks
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    Vincent PHO 701 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk LSim 707
    Polk LSiM706c
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk 80F/X-RT
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,593
    Manticore wrote: »
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Looks great! Nice choice of protector. Mike holmes is a BOSS!!!!

    Well if he endorses it IT MUST BE GOOD!!!Lol
    Thanks

    Do it once... Do it right.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Manticore
    Manticore Posts: 408
    Now all that is left is to run a 10/3 line to the garage and replace that garage panel. Get rid of those old round type fuses.

    At the moment there is no power running to the garage panel. With the power off i have no working outlets or heat blower for the winter & no power to the outside for the RV plug-in. We are hoping to find some space where the hot water pipe runs the length of the house from garage to utility room to run the 10/3

    This is just one of the problems when moving into an previously owned house if the walls are up, ceiling is up and basement is finished and you don't know what they did or didn't do correctly. Oh well

    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    Vincent PHO 701 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk LSim 707
    Polk LSiM706c
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk 80F/X-RT
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,789
    edited August 2018
    Run a 6/4 SER Aluminum cable to that sub panel. That way you will have a separate neutral and ground as required by code for sub-panels. 50A circuit breaker to feed it. That will give you room to grow for future circuits. Especially since you have an RV hook up. That's a heavy load at times.
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  • Manticore
    Manticore Posts: 408
    I will mention this to my kid. I'm sure he will agree. Now all i have to do is get an RV B)

    Is that 6/4 much thicker than the 10/3?
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    Vincent PHO 701 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk LSim 707
    Polk LSiM706c
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk 80F/X-RT
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,789
    :D Assumed you had one....
    6/4 is thicker and has a higher current rating at 60 amps.

    10/3 is good for 30 amps. Future proof installs are the best!
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,593
    edited August 2018
    lightman1 wrote: »
    :D Assumed you had one....
    6/4 is thicker and has a higher current rating at 60 amps.

    10/3 is good for 30 amps. Future proof installs are the best!

    Then why did we only do 12/3 20 amps Russ..... I think those Clone amps like Ryan has need 30 amps lol... :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,789
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    :D Assumed you had one....
    6/4 is thicker and has a higher current rating at 60 amps.

    10/3 is good for 30 amps. Future proof installs are the best!

    Then why did we only do 12/3 Russ :smile:

    Dedicated single outlet runs, Dan......
    Pay attention.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,593
    lightman1 wrote: »
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    :D Assumed you had one....
    6/4 is thicker and has a higher current rating at 60 amps.

    10/3 is good for 30 amps. Future proof installs are the best!

    Then why did we only do 12/3 Russ :smile:

    Dedicated single outlet runs, Dan......
    Pay attention.

    See thats why I let you do all the connecting and stuff....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,789
    That's why I let Skye help me instead of you.....
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,593
    lightman1 wrote: »
    That's why I let Skye help me instead of you.....

    She better at listening and following instructions......
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited August 2018
    Atmos is something I wish I did years ago. I like it better then my upgrade to 4k HDR and Dolby Vision as good as they are. I have always been an audio guy first. Audio makes me happy.
    Glad to see you got into Atmos, it's such an experience. I Do Atmos a lot at work as I usually get called in to calibrate the theaters with 7.2.4 setups. But I never lived with it and just thought it was really cool as I would just run cool clips.
    Once you go Atmos there is no other way to watch movies. Hell I even ran some music today with All channel stereo which I never do and man with the Ceiling speakers it gives a whole new meaning to immersive sound.
    I don't see how 10/2 is going to outperform 12/2 for a 20 amp circuit. Code is 12/2 and doesn't catch on fire due to overload. Can someone chime in on why 10/2 is better then 12/2 for a 20 amp circuit?10/2 is for a 20 amp circuit.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,504
    w3xgp1aatt8m.png

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,108
    With a 10 gauge wire, there will be less likelihood of a voltage drop than with a 12 gauge wire, particularly over long runs, although I am unsure roughly what distance parameters we are talking. People have noted a sonic improvement with 10/2 over 12/2, and I would guess there is certainly some truth to that.

    As far as I can tell, 10/2 romex is acceptable for feeding a receptacle on a 20-amp circuit according to the National Electrical Code. Some municipalities also have various other rules beyond the NEC, and I would bet this very issue is addressed in certain areas.
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,108
    edited August 2018
    HAHAHA When I was an electrician, we always would say: "120, 220, 320, whatever it takes." :p
    Post edited by Viking64 on
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,504
    edited August 2018
    LOL When you crank up aircraft GPU's (Ground Power Unit), you say crank it until it hertz, 400 hertz.


    https://youtu.be/c6si8Xp8P-M
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,465
    80FX RT, nice speakers I just installed a pair replacing the MC80 I was using as my rear surrounds.

    I agree about ATMOS and DTS X, both add a new level to the HT arena.

    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited August 2018
    Viking64 wrote: »
    With a 10 gauge wire, there will be less likelihood of a voltage drop than with a 12 gauge wire, particularly over long runs, although I am unsure roughly what distance parameters we are talking. People have noted a sonic improvement with 10/2 over 12/2, and I would guess there is certainly some truth to that.

    As far as I can tell, 10/2 romex is acceptable for feeding a receptacle on a 20-amp circuit according to the National Electrical Code. Some municipalities also have various other rules beyond the NEC, and I would bet this very issue is addressed in certain areas.
    As I get that 10 gauge wire will be less resistant to voltage drops but at what length are we talking about when a 12/2 gauge rome's wire will start dropping voltage? I'll have to look up these spec's I'm sure there is a distance where the 12 gauge wire starts to lose power. Then at this length I can see the 10 gauge being a benefit. Sounding better would only come into play if there is loss. Not to mention whatever was connected to the the 20 amp circuit would require all 20 amps to work properly.
    I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit at my equipment head end but that run is probably I'd guess maybe 45-50 feet tops. My Electrical panel is in the basement underneath my Son's bedroom which is probably 20 feet from the head end. I'm thinking at that length I couldn't experience any benefits from re running that feed in 10/2. Not to mention my toal system power is under 15 amps. I probably pull at best 7-9 amps total when driving the system hard. Now that I have a LED TV instead of a plasma I'm sure I might not even be pulling that much.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,504
    edited August 2018
    They have fill in the blank calculators or do the math calculations for wire length/volt drop. Wire has resistance per foot, it adds up. IIRC NEC recommends no more than 3% voltage drop at the farthest outlet of power. Audio guys won't want any drop...lol

    My two dedicated audio 20 amp circuits are like 8 feet from breaker panel so I used 12 gauge. My amp pulls a constant near 12 amps, no issues.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 7,108
    mantis wrote: »
    I'll have to look up these spec's I'm sure there is a distance where the 12 gauge wire starts to lose power. Then at this length I can see the 10 gauge being a benefit. Sounding better would only come into play if there is loss.

    Not necessarily. The voltage drop issue is only one issue. There could be others.

    The voltage from an amp to a speaker can travel on both 16 gauge speaker wire and 12 gauge speaker wire. Because both sizes can adequately carry that voltage, would you think that "sounding better would only come into play if there is loss" in this case?

    I don't know enough about electrical engineering to state why A would sound better than B, or vice-versa, but I feel it certainly is reasonable to believe there would be a difference. And the architecture of the amp would likely vary the benefits on a case to case basis.
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  • Manticore
    Manticore Posts: 408
    So now that the amp's have there own dedicated power and are not sharing with the other equipment it seems like they are performing a lot easier (if that makes sense) than they were before. I guess more effortlessly would be a more accurate description.

    Very happy i added the extra lines!!!
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    Vincent PHO 701 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk LSim 707
    Polk LSiM706c
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk 80F/X-RT
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Glad that you are already hearing the benefits!
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,560
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Run a 6/4 SER Aluminum cable to that sub panel. That way you will have a separate neutral and ground as required by code for sub-panels. 50A circuit breaker to feed it. That will give you room to grow for future circuits. Especially since you have an RV hook up. That's a heavy load at times.
    Manticore wrote: »
    I will mention this to my kid. I'm sure he will agree. Now all i have to do is get an RV B)

    Is that 6/4 much thicker than the 10/3?

    yes it is much bigger and resistance will be much lower with big loads when amperage goes up. 10/3 is WAY TOO small to carry all those circuits. You must also consider the length from main panel to sub panel as well. Long runs also make the resistance climb up and things tend to get very warm when that happens.

    Now Russ knows far more than I but I'm a firm believer in copper I'd NEVER use Aluminium in my place. Everything else he said is exactly what I did. All my grounds went back to the main panel as per code in my area. Having two different ground potentials can have very bad circumstances. My first breaker was a 60amp that fed the sub box to all the other brakers
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Manticore wrote: »
    So now that the amp's have there own dedicated power and are not sharing with the other equipment it seems like they are performing a lot easier (if that makes sense) than they were before. I guess more effortlessly would be a more accurate description.

    Very happy i added the extra lines!!!

    Welcome to the real world. :)



    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,789
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Run a 6/4 SER Aluminum cable to that sub panel. That way you will have a separate neutral and ground as required by code for sub-panels. 50A circuit breaker to feed it. That will give you room to grow for future circuits. Especially since you have an RV hook up. That's a heavy load at times.
    Manticore wrote: »
    I will mention this to my kid. I'm sure he will agree. Now all i have to do is get an RV B)

    Is that 6/4 much thicker than the 10/3?

    yes it is much bigger and resistance will be much lower with big loads when amperage goes up. 10/3 is WAY TOO small to carry all those circuits. You must also consider the length from main panel to sub panel as well. Long runs also make the resistance climb up and things tend to get very warm when that happens.

    Now Russ knows far more than I but I'm a firm believer in copper I'd NEVER use Aluminium in my place. Everything else he said is exactly what I did. All my grounds went back to the main panel as per code in my area. Having two different ground potentials can have very bad circumstances. My first breaker was a 60amp that fed the sub box to all the other brakers

    Aluminum SE (service entry) cable is good for panel feeders.... And an economical choice considering how much that same run of copper would cost....

    And yes the 10/3 run would suffer from voltage drop more so than a larger gauge conductor of the same length.
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