Dedicated line for amplifiers

Manticore

F1nut wrote: »

I assume the hospital grade receptacles are better than the contractor ones?

Would 12/2 Romex be the appropriate cable size?

They are, but the audio grade ones take it further. Some are direct gold plate to copper, so no brass and the body is non-resonant.

I strongly suggest 10/2, it does make a difference.

I understand that buying stuff with better conductors will produce less line noise and such but, some of the audio grade stuff is a hard sell to the misses. $8, $12 or $20 dollars for a receptacle she will go for but, say +/- $135.00 for one receptacle is not going to fly.

Please understand i really like sleeping indoors with both eyes closed!

Also where i am with my equipment will i really see any improvement. I mean i do not have anything resembling like what Drew had seen/listened to at the audio show that would in her eyes justify the added expense. I will consider some better alternatives to the 99cent big store stuff. I will definitely consider the 10/2 cable.


Thanks for your input.

Hermitism

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PS-AUDIO-POWER-PORT-CLASSIC-POWER-CONDITIONER-MCINTOSH-AUDIORESEARCH-AUDIOQUEST/292648723463?hash=item4423392407:g:vQgAAOSwYBRbN7vj&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=PS+Audio+Power+Port+Classic&_from=R40&rt=nc

Auction with Best Offer!

If you end up using a thick heavy power cord, you'll appreciate the tight grip this receptacle offers.

pitdogg2

I used these, they were hidden so I didn't mind the orange color but I see they come in other colors as well. I bought mine at the local hardware box store.

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-8300-R-125-Volt-Receptacle-Grounding/dp/B002090BBC

Manticore

Hermitism wrote: »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PS-AUDIO-POWER-PORT-CLASSIC-POWER-CONDITIONER-MCINTOSH-AUDIORESEARCH-AUDIOQUEST/292648723463?hash=item4423392407:g:vQgAAOSwYBRbN7vj&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=PS+Audio+Power+Port+Classic&_from=R40&rt=nc

Auction with Best Offer!

If you end up using a thick heavy power cord, you'll appreciate the tight grip this receptacle offers.

Now that i could probably swing past her. Of course there is only one left,at this seller.
Thanks for the link & input.

Manticore

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I used these, they were hidden so I didn't mind the orange color but I see they come in other colors as well. I bought mine at the local hardware box store.

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-8300-R-125-Volt-Receptacle-Grounding/dp/B002090BBC

This product is also available at my local box store. More things to consider.
Thanks for yet another idea.

Hermitism

If you're not in a hurry, keep an eye out on eBay. In one bulk auction I bought two new in box PS Audio Power Port Classics & one used VooDoo Cable Outlet for $45 + $7.75 shipping. In all honesty, I couldn't hear any difference with the new outlets, but at the time all I had was a home theater system and a lot of people here will say you are less likely to hear subtle differences on a HT system because they aren't as revealing as a dedicated two channel system. I did notice the tighter grip.

DaveHo

Manticore wrote: »

DaveHo wrote: »

I used 10 awg for my dedicated lines. It can be difficult to work with but you'll never have to ask what if. For recepticals, there are some Pass & Seymour's that were recommended on audio asylum. Don't recall the model, but they have an iron fist grip which is good for bigger cables.

That could be a problem since where i have to run the cables is in an already sealed up finished with sheet rock rooms. I already have to cut a hole or two and drill thru a few studs in the wall/ceiling to run this stuff to an outside wall. I will evaluate and make a decision.

Are those Pass & Seymour's available in big box stores or special order/online purchase?
Thanks for your input.

They were not available at the big box stores. I called a couple supply houses in the area & they were more expensive than online. IIRC, I bought them from Newark Electronics.

After a quick AA search they were models 5262 & 5362. The 5362 is the 20A version of the 5262. At the time the were less than $10 each, but it looks like the price has gone up. Also, they might have been Hubbell, not P&S. This was over 10 years ago so memory is a little fuzzy.

CoolJazz

While the electrical work is being done, do yourself a huge favor and...

- Balance the load. Look for things that can easily move between the legs that will even out the loading. Good loading reduces distortions.

- Move noisy loads (motors in HVAC in particular) to the opposite leg.

- Make sure what you are feeding to your audio system is from the same leg. Don't cross over between the phases.

- Make sure in the original that all lugs are tight. Simple but important! At the same time, especially for the known higher load items, go the outlet end and also check for tightness at that end.

-Get rid of bad switch mode supplies. Walk around with an AM radio tuned between stations and look for radiated higher levels of noise in proximity to the wall warts. This includes the hazmat curly Q bulbs (get rid of 'em before they burn down the house) and some LED bulbs. All this noise goes back on the line plus radiates.

These things along with the newly installed nice low impedance dedicated supply of AC to the rig will get you way down the path to a low noise base to build the audio delivery from!

CJ

pitdogg2

CoolJazz wrote: »

While the electrical work is being done, do yourself a huge favor and...

- Balance the load. Look for things that can easily move between the legs that will even out the loading. Good loading reduces distortions.

- Move noisy loads (motors in HVAC in particular) to the opposite leg.

- Make sure what you are feeding to your audio system is from the same leg. Don't cross over between the phases.

- Make sure in the original that all lugs are tight. Simple but important! At the same time, especially for the known higher load items, go the outlet end and also check for tightness at that end.

-Get rid of bad switch mode supplies. Walk around with an AM radio tuned between stations and look for radiated higher levels of noise in proximity to the wall warts. This includes the hazmat curly Q bulbs (get rid of 'em before they burn down the house) and some LED bulbs. All this noise goes back on the line plus radiates.

These things along with the newly installed nice low impedance dedicated supply of AC to the rig will get you way down the path to a low noise base to build the audio delivery from!

CJ

This made a heck of a difference when I did my work. All appliances were moved to one side all audio was the very top circuit and the opposite side of the appliances. Dedicated circuits for audio and video only.

Yes this is not really available to some as the wire may be too short to move to the other side of the box.

verb

I’m glad that you avoided what could have been much worse. I had a minor issue compared to yours earlier this year. An outlet box had loose wiring in it, when discovered the wire insulation, receptacle, and box all had indications of high temperatures (blackened melted plastic).

Manticore

Hermitism wrote: »

If you're not in a hurry, keep an eye out on eBay. In one bulk auction I bought two new in box PS Audio Power Port Classics & one used VooDoo Cable Outlet for $45 + $7.75 shipping. In all honesty, I couldn't hear any difference with the new outlets, but at the time all I had was a home theater system and a lot of people here will say you are less likely to hear subtle differences on a HT system because they aren't as revealing as a dedicated two channel system. I did notice the tighter grip.

I think i will keep my eyes open on the bay & other online stores for some reasonably priced/sale outlets.

I am basically restricted to the room downstairs so its my HT & what i will call my quasi two channel room. Its the best i can do for now.

Manticore

DaveHo wrote: »

They were not available at the big box stores. I called a couple supply houses in the area & they were more expensive than online. IIRC, I bought them from Newark Electronics.

After a quick AA search they were models 5262 & 5362. The 5362 is the 20A version of the 5262. At the time the were less than $10 each, but it looks like the price has gone up. Also, they might have been Hubbell, not P&S. This was over 10 years ago so memory is a little fuzzy.

Thanks for the heads up. Another reference for me to look into.

Manticore

CoolJazz wrote: »

While the electrical work is being done, do yourself a huge favor and...

- Balance the load. Look for things that can easily move between the legs that will even out the loading. Good loading reduces distortions.

- Move noisy loads (motors in HVAC in particular) to the opposite leg.

- Make sure what you are feeding to your audio system is from the same leg. Don't cross over between the phases.

- Make sure in the original that all lugs are tight. Simple but important! At the same time, especially for the known higher load items, go the outlet end and also check for tightness at that end.

-Get rid of bad switch mode supplies. Walk around with an AM radio tuned between stations and look for radiated higher levels of noise in proximity to the wall warts. This includes the hazmat curly Q bulbs (get rid of 'em before they burn down the house) and some LED bulbs. All this noise goes back on the line plus radiates.

These things along with the newly installed nice low impedance dedicated supply of AC to the rig will get you way down the path to a low noise base to build the audio delivery from!

CJ

Now this is a whole lot of info worthwhile looking into. My son has already replaced the main box and its almost all done. He left two slots open on the top for the whole house surge protector & two slots on the opposite leg for the proposed 20 amp runs.

I would have to take a look but, its possible the wiring is staggered like you described. I do get it, keep the central air, central vac, wash & dry, fridge, range & so on together. Makes sense. Possible less line noise. I will mention it to him but, i will probably get a take a long walk off a short pier look!!!

Thanks for the info.

Manticore

verb wrote: »

I’m glad that you avoided what could have been much worse. I had a minor issue compared to yours earlier this year. An outlet box had loose wiring in it, when discovered the wire insulation, receptacle, and box all had indications of high temperatures (blackened melted plastic).

The previous owners brother was an electrician. After living here for several years and getting more familiar with the home my son says the old owners brother was a hack!

Many shady things electrically were done over the years that he has seen/found in the house and is slowly correcting. The main panel was an immediate fix though. He spent all day Fathers day here instead of home with his child. This shows me the urgency that this problem needed fixing.

Funny when he was living at home we couldn't get him to change a light bulb. Now hes a parent and i guess he has seen the light. Lol

SCompRacer

Our first house had mixture of K&T (knob and tube) and BX. No grounds on most boxes. Metal kitchen cabinets. The wife tells me she gets a shock when she touches cabinets while at sink. I'm like no way, stick my hand on sink and cabinet, ZAP. Bare wire from switch touching metal wall plate that rested against metal cabinets above sink.

I never doubted her again...lol

Joey_V

Just make sure theyre in phase.

leftwinger57

You guys are not going to like this. But I agree as long as your son is running the romex run multiples. Now my nightmare. I live in a 70 y/0 garden apt w/ a 15 amp breaker for my entire living room. If that’s not bad enough it was wired w/ aluminum 3 conductor rapped in a tight horse hair type of insulation , nothing like the plastic jacket of today’s romex

mantis

I use only 1 Dedicated 20 amp feed to my Surround system. I have 1 dedicated 15 amp to my whole house audio system.
In the surround system I use a PS Audio 20 amp outlet. The wiring is 12/2 in the wall which is the correct wiring for 20 amp circuits. 14/2 wiring is designed for 15 amp circuits.
When you run multiple dedicated circuits as long as they all share a common ground you should eliminate any possibility of getting a 60 hz hum due to the electrical system.
Another way hum is introduced into ones system is over service lines like Ethernet or Cable feeds. If those systems are on another grounding polarity, you can introduce a hum. I hate trouble shooting these issues as they always seem to take much longer then expected.

gp4jesus

@ mantis: for reasons that are too many and too detailed, your last post suggested to me where to look &, possibly & easily, solve my system’s hum problem.

Up until now the “fix” is run/ground my DirecTV feed through my power conditioner. Otherwise late night viewing of any source isn’t possible - too noisy. One for another day as, right now I have “bigger fish to fry.”

Thanks, Tony

Manticore

Well after a short absence here are the results.
First off here is the culprit; the secondary non grounded garage panel.


This non grounding panel "except through the water pipe" caused the main panel to arc and it started melting over the years.

I assure you it is worse than it looks in the photo.

lightman1

Get rid of that panel!

Manticore

I took some of your advice a ran two dedicated 20 amp lines. I did go with the 10/2 romex instead of what my son said to get "12/2" and i took a little what the heck in return. I believe i understood the why for the 10/2 but it is against code. Oh well!!!

I needed help with the run so i had a friend help a bit. We had to cut into the wall to snake the wires and ran into stacked 2x4's going up.


After reading @mantis last atmos post i also have been itching for atmos so i ran some in wall speaker wire...while i was there of course and cut out some holes. They want a lot of money for the sheetrock cutter that catches all the mess. I was not going to pay for those so while eating the last half of an apple pie i had a brain ****.


Why not use the top half of the pie cover and save $60 to $100 plus bucks. Hey the pie was delicious and it worked like a charm.

Manticore

I kept the low voltage speaker wire separate from the 20 amp lines and installed a speaker plate for four speakers even though i was only installing two speakers. No harm no foul if i dont use the extra connections. I am sure i will

Manticore

The atmos speakers were a snap to install. They not only look nice but, add to the sound in a nice way. The cemetery scene in John Wick i found myself looking around for my umbrella. Lol


I have never seen this in my display before...untill now.


I installed these. If i read correctly they match up sound-wise with rti line of speakers so i felt confident they would be a decent match.

Manticore

And to think this all started out with my wanting to install a whole house surge protector. I went with this model.


This is the finished product.



So far i am very pleased with the way everything turned out. I little spackle & a little paint. A quick clean up and the waf of in ceiling speakers, all is good. I will keep my eyes open for some sale prices on some better receptacles in the 20 amp runs so until then i went with some contractor grade ones.



I would like to thank all those with your advice and helping to steer me in the right direction. You folks can help me spend my money anytime!!!!!!!!

Viking64

lightman1 wrote: »

Get rid of that panel!

NO! I reFUSE to get rid of it!

lightman1

Ok then! That gets the "Lightman Seal of Approval"......

Viking64

lightman1 wrote: »

Ok then! That gets the "Lightman Seal of Approval"......

10-4, breaker.

EndersShadow

Looks great! Nice choice of protector. Mike holmes is a BOSS!!!!

Clipdat

Very nice, Joe!