Dedicated line for amplifiers

I had a problem with the primary electrical panel caused by the secondary panel in my garage. Seems the previous owner never upgraded the secondary garage panel when the availability of 200amp from 100amp service became available to him. The secondary panel was also never properly grounded. No ground wire back to the main box. So for all the years of this secondary panel trying to find ground, it found ground through the water pipe (shaking head :s ) it caused the main panel to arc and also started to melt so it had to be replaced. (so much for home inspectors)

Since my son is a licensed electrician it cost must less than hiring outside. I went with a Seimens panel for the 200 amp service panel. I am waiting for his return to replace the garage panel & add the whole house surge protector i picked up. Even though this is fairly simple i will let him hook it up.
I find as i am getting older i dont heal as quickly as i used to if something should go awry.

Question is; I will be running (one) dedicated 20 amp line to the AV room. Since i am currently running two amps: 1) parasound 1500a and 2) adcom gfa555 & the other equipment in my profile. Will it be ok to have both these amps on the same 20amp line or should i run two dedicated 20 amp lines, one for each amp?

One day i will have a big boy amp and who knows how much peak amperes it will be/need.
Some photos will follow... when my kid has some free time to finish up. Possibly this week coming up.
Denon AVR X4200W
Parasound HCA 1500A amplifier
Adcom GFA 555 amplifier
LG 65" Ultra HD4k
LG 4kBR - UP970
Denon DVM 4800
Denon DP 3000 turntable
Saec 308sx tonearm w/
Dynavector 10x5 cart
NAD pp 4 Phono Preamp
MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
Polk RTiA 7's
Polk CSi A6
Polk RTiA 3's
Polk SDA 1C's modded
Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
Infinity bu2 sub
"The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
«13

Comments

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,606
    I would go with 2 circuits, particularly if you will be adding a bigger amp in the future.

    At that time, run the big amp directly to the receptacle of one circuit, and everything else through the other circuit. Preferably through a power conditioner. Don't plug your power amps into a power conditioner, even if it has a "high current" receptacle on it. Unless you have one of those power conditioners that cost as much as a car.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,970
    Always better to have than not. If he's already going to make the run, the extra material cost is a no brainer IMHO
    I find as i am getting older i dont heal as quickly as i used to if something should go awry.
    :D :D :D
    This gave me the giggles
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,656
    Run the second line.....heck run three.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,537
    Agree with the above
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 9,939
    Go for three.

    Electrician here.... B)
    I ran three for Dan @EndersShadow and it made a world of difference.
  • haimochaimoc Posts: 1,017
    F1nut wrote: »
    Run the second line.....heck run three.

    Yes, that was what I did. 2 for monoblock amplifiers and 1 for the source and preamplifier..
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,135
    Run as many as you can. Always good to have extras. Worst case perhaps you convert one for a dedicated AC/minifridge, etc.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • honestaquarianhonestaquarian Posts: 2,086
    If you can do it, I say go for it.
    Three makes sense.
    Yes, yes to F1nut and Lightman you listen?!!
    Living room Home theater: Upgrade Company modified Onkyo PR-SC5509,Sunfire Cinema grand Signature 5 channel amp(1st gen),Carver TFM-45,Carver M-400a,Panasonic TC-P50ST60 50" Plasma(last gen before Plasma production stopped)Pioneer Elite DVL-91,Meridian 519 Dolby AC-3 RF Demodulator,Oppo Digital UDP-205,TiVo Bolt VOX,Nakamich BX-300,Technics SL-1200MKII,Shure V15 Type VxMR cartridge,Polk SDA-SRS 3.1 TL(with RD-0198 tweeters, upgraded with Larry's rings, black hole5,an Avel-Lindberg 1000VA isolation transformer, VR3 customer crossovers and internal wiring),Polk CS-1000P(with SL-6506 tweeter),Polk Monitor 5jr(with RD-0194 tweeters),Polk RT-35i (1),Polk Mini Monitors,Polk PSW150(4)Monster Power HTPS 7000 MKII Signature series,Monster Power AVS 2000 Signature Series,Various MIT,Monster,Upgrade Company and Belden interconnect,power,HDMI,Coax and Toslink Digital and speaker cables.

    Bedroom 2 channel system:Integra DTM 40.4,Nakamichi BX-100,TiVo mini,Musical Fidelity X-LPS,X-PSU,Carver TFM-25,Sony KV-34XBR970(last of the widescreen tube sets before production stopped)Technics SL-1200MKII,Shure V15 Type V MR cartridge,Polk RT-55(with SL-6506 tweeters),Polk PSW-200 in plexiglass(2),Sony Playstation 3 slim.Monster Power HTPS-7000,Monster AVS-2000, PowerVarious Kimber,Audioquest and MIT interconnects and speaker cables.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,953
    edited August 4
    I started with one 20 amp circuit then came the day I had to add a second 20 amp circuit just for an amp. So definitely, at least two.

    Since your son is an electrician, he'll know all them pesky rules about box fill and stuff.

    Listen to Lightman, he knows his stuff. He deals with big voltages and is still alive. :D
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 9,939
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    I started with one 20 amp circuit then came the day I had to add a second 20 amp circuit just for an amp. So definitely, at least two.

    Since your son is an electrician, he'll know all them pesky rules about box fill and stuff.

    Listen to Lightman, he knows his stuff. He deals with big voltages and is still alive. :D

    Had a few close calls, Rich!
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,606
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Had a few close calls, Rich!

    Have you ever changed-out a 50-year-old meter pack with a live drop? :o >:) o:) :p
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 9,939
    Viking64 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Had a few close calls, Rich!

    Have you ever changed-out a 50-year-old meter pack with a live drop? :o >:) o:) :p

    Lots of tape....
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,606
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Lots of tape....

    HAHAHA Yes....that, and an ambulance nearby. :D

    9gijhlo7gk4d.jpg
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,834
    Personally went with 4.
    Have duel purpose system, so endgame will be:

    Outlet 1) power conditioner for display, AVR, various other sources

    Outlet 2) amp

    Outlet3) amp

    Outlet 4) subs x 2.
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,257
    I have three 20 amp lines for my stereo, but only one 20 amp dedicated line for the HT. I criticize myself every time I use it for that. Of course, when I did it I only had 1 five channel amp, but now I have two amps for the fronts, and the 5 channel runs the center and rears.

    I will at some point get two more 20 amp lines for the the HT.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • ManticoreManticore Posts: 286
    Viking64 wrote: »
    I would go with 2 circuits, particularly if you will be adding a bigger amp in the future.

    At that time, run the big amp directly to the receptacle of one circuit, and everything else through the other circuit.

    This seems to be the general consensus & overall just plain good advice.
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Always better to have than not. If he's already going to make the run, the extra material cost is a no brainer IMHO

    The cost of wire, receptacles,gang box w/cover is nill. I will not be putting in furutech or high end stuff. Although i will go with hospital grade receptacles.
    F1nut wrote: »
    Run the second line.....heck run three.

    I already have the three original spaced out 15 amp receptacles so a minimum of two additional 20amp circuits makes sense.
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Go for three.

    Electrician here.... B)
    I ran three for Dan @EndersShadow and it made a world of difference.

    Oh your an electrician??? I thought you just lived in the bucket like Oscar does in his can! Thats was why your stuff is all over the East coast. ;) ;) o:)
    haimoc wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Run the second line.....heck run three.

    Yes, that was what I did. 2 for monoblock amplifiers and 1 for the source and preamplifier..

    I think three is overkill (for my setup) but, i will think down the line and keep this in the front of my head before i zip it up and finish.
    haimoc wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Run the second line.....heck run three.

    Yes, that was what I did. 2 for monoblock amplifiers and 1 for the source and preamplifier..

    Point noted. As stated above i will try to think ahead. I will not want to cut into my sheet rock a second or third time.
    Run as many as you can. Always good to have extras. Worst case perhaps you convert one for a dedicated AC/minifridge, etc.

    Oooh a kegerator sounds good.
    If you can do it, I say go for it.
    Three makes sense.
    Yes, yes to F1nut and Lightman you listen?!!

    I will listen. No one on this site has ever led me the wrong way. Actually they have shown me the light & the sound!!
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    I started with one 20 amp circuit then came the day I had to add a second 20 amp circuit just for an amp. So definitely, at least two.
    Listen to Lightman, he knows his stuff.

    I am convinced that two will be the minimum.

    rpf65 wrote: »
    Personally went with 4. Have duel purpose system, so endgame will be:
    Outlet 1) power conditioner for display, AVR, various other sources
    Outlet 2) ampOutlet3) ampOutlet 4) subs x 2.


    BlueFox wrote: »
    I have three 20 amp lines for my stereo, but only one 20 amp dedicated line for the HT. I criticize myself every time I use it for that. Of course, when I did it I only had 1 five channel amp, but now I have two amps for the fronts, and the 5 channel runs the center and rears.

    I will at some point get two more 20 amp lines for the the HT.

    I wish i had your problem. For me my HT setup is also my two channel rig. Its a bit unconventional but, i have to make do. WAF dictates here but, i am ok with that.

    I use the Rtia speakers for HT. Fronts powered by the 555 & the rest by the avr. For music i switch over to the 1500A which powers the SDA 1C's,no subs on. I have the 1500 first in line & take advantage of the pass through loop. I keep the 1500 powered off when i use the HT. I turn off the 555 and power on the 1500 for two channel. As stated above its a bit unconventional but, in my IMHO i feel it sounds perty darn nice!

    Thanks for all the positive feedback! It is appreciated.
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound HCA 1500A amplifier
    Adcom GFA 555 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    NAD pp 4 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk RTiA 7's
    Polk CSi A6
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
  • ManticoreManticore Posts: 286
    I assume the hospital grade receptacles are better than the contractor ones?

    Would 12/2 Romex be the appropriate cable size?

    It seems to be roughly 42 feet in cable for one run. I will pick up a hundred foot roll to do two lines.

    I will also be installing atmos speakers at the same time. The runs for electrical & speaker cables will be running down the same line in between the joists. 16 on center joists will have the speaker wire on the left side and electrical cable on the right. Although technically parallel they will be separated by 16".
    This should be far enough apart????
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound HCA 1500A amplifier
    Adcom GFA 555 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    NAD pp 4 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk RTiA 7's
    Polk CSi A6
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,970
    Yes on all counts
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,135
    edited August 5
    With that said, run all of them at the same time, but I dont know if having only an extra 8' of slack is a good idea.

    Russ and I bought 3 100 foot lines and ran em all at the same time, even though I needed only about 50 feet. It was good to have extra slack to ensure we only had to do it once lol....

    ORRR.... have him put another secondary panel in/near that room so you can run more lines as needed and its not as far.....


    I debated doing this and putting the secondary panel in my loft closet, but in my case it was easier to just run the three and be done. If I need a 4th (for my loft), its relatively easy to get up into the attic and then its just a drop into the loft wall which is on the second floor.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,606
    Manticore wrote: »
    Oh your an electrician??? I thought you just lived in the bucket like Oscar does in his can! Thats was why your stuff is all over the East coast. ;) ;) o:)

    rq5ibff641g8.jpg
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,135
    Is there seriously a pug image for every scenario lol....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,606
    Is there seriously a pug image for every scenario lol....

    HAHAHA Maybe! Someone posted this online just today and then I read this comment. There must be something in The Force. :p

    dfzgciu5bbdp.jpg
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,194
    With that said, run all of them at the same time, but I dont know if having only an extra 8' of slack is a good idea.
    While it exceeds the “10% extra” rule of thumb, unless you were anal measuring for every inch, I’d get extra.
    ORRR.... have him put another secondary panel in/near that room so you can run more lines as needed and its not as far.....
    check my sig, I ran 3 dedicated 20As. If/when I move my system, downstairs, I will do a secondary allowing 4-6 20A plus space for surge suppression.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
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    Samsung BDP, DirecTV Rcvr, Xbox 360, Dennon LDP, Phillips CD chgr

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

    LR: tri-amped RTi A7. Woofers, Rotel 98X amp; M & T, P'sound HCA-1000
    CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
    5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: 1 Evidence at each corner
    Surrounds: Hafler XL280 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3*
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
    *Bi-amped by years end
  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,026
    I used 10 awg for my dedicated lines. It can be difficult to work with but you'll never have to ask what if. For recepticals, there are some Pass & Seymour's that were recommended on audio asylum. Don't recall the model, but they have an iron fist grip which is good for bigger cables.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,656
    I assume the hospital grade receptacles are better than the contractor ones?

    Would 12/2 Romex be the appropriate cable size?

    They are, but the audio grade ones take it further. Some are direct gold plate to copper, so no brass and the body is non-resonant.

    I strongly suggest 10/2, it does make a difference.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,135
    edited August 5
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    With that said, run all of them at the same time, but I dont know if having only an extra 8' of slack is a good idea.
    While it exceeds the “10% extra” rule of thumb, unless you were anal measuring for every inch, I’d get extra.

    I know that was what I was saying lol...
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    ORRR.... have him put another secondary panel in/near that room so you can run more lines as needed and its not as far.....
    check my sig, I ran 3 dedicated 20As. If/when I move my system, downstairs, I will do a secondary allowing 4-6 20A plus space for surge suppression.

    I was talking to the OP..... I cant see your sig so I dont know what you've got. Heck I dont even know what my own sig says...
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • ManticoreManticore Posts: 286
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Yes on all counts

    Thank you.
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound HCA 1500A amplifier
    Adcom GFA 555 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    NAD pp 4 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk RTiA 7's
    Polk CSi A6
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
  • ManticoreManticore Posts: 286
    With that said, run all of them at the same time, but I dont know if having only an extra 8' of slack is a good idea.

    ORRR.... have him put another secondary panel in/near that room so you can run more lines as needed and its not as far...

    Yeah i guess having just +/- 8' left over is cutting it close. So instead of two 50' or one 100' romex bundles i will just pick up a 250' roll and be done with it.

    I never thought about an additional panel. Great idea but, it might be overkill for my application and there would be no place to conceal it properly. Thanks Dan!
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound HCA 1500A amplifier
    Adcom GFA 555 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    NAD pp 4 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk RTiA 7's
    Polk CSi A6
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
  • ManticoreManticore Posts: 286
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    With that said, run all of them at the same time, but I dont know if having only an extra 8' of slack is a good idea.
    While it exceeds the “10% extra” rule of thumb, unless you were anal measuring for every inch, I’d get extra.

    I thought i was careful measuring out the distance but, its not a big deal having some extra and guaranteeing the job gets done correctly.

    My son says in the past he would have just brought some from a job but, now the company wants an accounting for almost every foot.
    Thanks
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound HCA 1500A amplifier
    Adcom GFA 555 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    NAD pp 4 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk RTiA 7's
    Polk CSi A6
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
  • ManticoreManticore Posts: 286
    DaveHo wrote: »
    I used 10 awg for my dedicated lines. It can be difficult to work with but you'll never have to ask what if. For recepticals, there are some Pass & Seymour's that were recommended on audio asylum. Don't recall the model, but they have an iron fist grip which is good for bigger cables.

    That could be a problem since where i have to run the cables is in an already sealed up finished with sheet rock rooms. I already have to cut a hole or two and drill thru a few studs in the wall/ceiling to run this stuff to an outside wall. I will evaluate and make a decision.

    Are those Pass & Seymour's available in big box stores or special order/online purchase?
    Thanks for your input.
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound HCA 1500A amplifier
    Adcom GFA 555 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    NAD pp 4 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk RTiA 7's
    Polk CSi A6
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
«13
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