new integrated amp

124

Comments

  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,899
    edited August 17
    F1nut wrote: »
    Doing a little spec research shows a damping factor of 2000!!! That's extremely high. In fact, I cannot recall seeing a rating that high before. I might be wrong, but that seems to indicate a ton of global feedback, which is not a good thing.

    That's a pretty common side effect of lots of feedback. More than 100 is really not necessary. But it really depends on the design. More stages = more feedback to get all the stages to act nicely.

    Those Crown amps have a ton of feedback and that's bad juju.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,899
    Sure if pretty....glad you're enjoying it.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    i've got the question out about the high damping factor negative feedback thing.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    here is the answer to your questions about the high damping factor and negative feedback.


    The damping factor is a calculated value of the engineering design. The calculation may differ from one to another manufacturer.

    The THD+N 0.006% was measured using A-Weighting method whereby the measurement naturally lowered (favorable to the readers?).

    In Srajan review, the published AP report shows THD+N at 0.02321%. This is direct measurement without A-Weighting filter in the Audio Precision machine.
    This tells us that there is no large local/global feedback. EX-M1 uses a relatively small feedback loop at stage one amplification. Kinki Studio chief Mr. Liu comment was, large local/global feedback loop is undesirable as the sound will be muffled or overly smoothen - this is definitely not Kinki Studio house sound.

    My reply previously to a guy.

    Many thanks.

    Best regards,
    Alvin

    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,563
    edited August 18
    That's an interesting answer.

    I'll stop pickin' at this after one more comment.
    It's hard to reconcile the very low THD levels and high DF (i.e., low output impedance) reported for these amps with the notion of very limited amounts of feedback... although low feedback is compatible with early comments on these amps of very high levels of gain.


  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    the new gain switch on the does come in handy, as when I first turned the amp on and played music the amp was set on high gain. at 12 the volume was as loud as I like to listen. putting it on low gain 40 was loud but still lower than the high gain setting of 12.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,627
    LMAO.....
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    preview.

    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,161
    Nice Marv, don't worry too much about the DF, or global feedback. If it sounds good to you, meshes well with it's playmates, that's all that matters. Congrats on the new toy.

    That faceplate though, makes my eyes go buggy. :)
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
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    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
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    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
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    Cables-
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  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    edited August 21
    i mentioned to them that you can't read the name from your chair and suggested to back light it or paint it with a metallic paint. how about red or gloss black.
    you don't like playing with two ole knobs >:)
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,415
    Always liked integrateds, but only owned 1 way back in the early 80's; it was a Pioneer A-9, and sadly it actually went up in smoke one day.
    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD | Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2L | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Signal Cable XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; Belden 1694A Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 2,909
    I really like intergrateds also. I have an Anthem that is great. This Kinki is interesting.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk Signature S60's;Cables: Wireworld Eclipse IC; Audioquest Big Sur IC; LAT International speaker cables; PS Audio AC-3 power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; SDA2BTL's, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb and dumber.
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    i started out with kenwood integrateds.

    i was listening to a jazz cut that started out with a sax solo and in between notes and breath breaks i could hear this sort of reverb harmonics lowly in the background. i was sitting there trying to figure out what it was, then a piano and drums joined in. it was the sax causing the strings of the piano to vibrate and create harmonic overtones to the tunes of the sax. this amp is pulling in some weird (nice) stuff.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,563
    I long felt that the best bang for buck was to be found in integrated amplifiers -- especially when I was severely finance constrained.

    FWIW, I started with one, too, of which I am still quite fond (although, I'm sure, not strictly objectively).

    12312777693_480440b67e_b.jpgP1020541 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    some kinki fun.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,502
    edited August 25
    That video was something good to watch for sure. I know being there would be the best way to judge.

    The Kinki seemed like a great power amp pushing what was fed to it. It seemed to be a great match for his components and speakers for sure.

    I loved how much better the sound, sounded when he used the clock in the CD player instead of the one in the DAC. I heard the sound IMPROVE!

    But from his phone being the microphone source for us to listen by, I found the sound from that stupid cheap outlet block and generic power cords to be better sounding than the $11k ( total) power block and power cords. I'm saying, I did hear a difference but...

    Also, that magnetic plug thing did affect the sound in a negative way for sure. So that sure tells me, power from the outlet itself , CAN change a stereo's sound. I was a skeptic but still believed all the people WITH EXPERIENCE that you do, or can get improvement of sound ( that comes out of speakers way down the chain ) from upgrading a power cable sometimes.

    That was very cool to watch! B)

    Thanks
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,657
    That’s a lot of DF.

    I don’t think even my Boulder has that much

    Good to hear it sounds good, that’s all that matters anyway
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,340
    maxward wrote: »
    Not sure if I care for the faceplate either, but it probably doesn’t show fingerprints.

    The remote control should negate the need for touching the controls. I avoid going near my gear...that's how cosmetic accidents happen.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 13,947
    maxward wrote: »
    Not sure if I care for the faceplate either, but it probably doesn’t show fingerprints.

    The remote control should negate the need for touching the controls. I avoid going near my gear...that's how cosmetic accidents happen.

    How do you clean? Or better yet how often?

  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    light dusting and I use this company for covers.
    https://www.digitaldeckcovers.com/
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • RobbyKYRobbyKY Posts: 38
    Price seems to be climbing based on demand. Website shows it at $2,898 today and they claim a 3-4 week shipping delay. Looking for something interesting to give my son to upgrade his system. The Parasound A21 at $2,495 for his modded out 3.1's is at the top of my list right now. Replacing his Emotiva PT-100 with a Carver C-1 I just finished rebuilding from the ground up so not so sold in the integrated aspect.
    SDA SRS 1.2TL x2 - SDA SRS 3.1 x2 - SDA 2BTL
    Adcom - Carver - McIntosh amps
    HT = Polk RTi A9s, CSi-A6, RT-65 -RTi-A3's - Marantz SR5012 - XPA3 - Epson 5040UB


  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    RobbyKY wrote: »
    Price seems to be climbing based on demand. Website shows it at $2,898 today and they claim a 3-4 week shipping delay. Looking for something interesting to give my son to upgrade his system. The Parasound A21 at $2,495 for his modded out 3.1's is at the top of my list right now. Replacing his Emotiva PT-100 with a Carver C-1 I just finished rebuilding from the ground up so not so sold in the integrated aspect.

    that 2898 is sgd not usd. it's $2122 us
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • RobbyKYRobbyKY Posts: 38
    Ahh, missed that little detail. Thanks for pointing this out. Now it's looking a whole lot more attractive for sure.
    SDA SRS 1.2TL x2 - SDA SRS 3.1 x2 - SDA 2BTL
    Adcom - Carver - McIntosh amps
    HT = Polk RTi A9s, CSi-A6, RT-65 -RTi-A3's - Marantz SR5012 - XPA3 - Epson 5040UB


  • That Amp is absolutely beautiful, Congrats!
    2 Channel:
    Jbl Lx44
    Optonica Sa 5105
    Blue Jean 12 gauge cable
    Audioquest evergreen 3.5mm to rca cable
    Technics Sl BD22 TT
    Randomness:
    Klh model 26's
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    Random cables
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    Lafayette Lr-200a amplifier
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • SIHABSIHAB Posts: 282
    edited October 5
    Wobbly knobs right out of the box?
    I figured time and gravity might do it but...

    Quality parts part caught my attention...
    Love the XLR inputs.

    No phono, tuner, headphone jack or DAC....

    S/N is just over the wire. I'll be interested to hear what you hear.

    Maybe better to drop some of the inputs or move the IEC...
    the money goes into the interconnects.

    Muting? Clipping protection, overheating protection?

    Warranty?
    Post edited by SIHAB on
  • SIHABSIHAB Posts: 282
    edited October 5
    No Mono bridging...

    Clean layout. Could it benefit from isolating the amps?

    I don't like the looks of the binding posts. I'd be interested to know
    how you like them.

    12v trigger?

    Sensitivity? How does it sound with various components?
    Be cool to have a sensitivity switch seeing as how this is
    a multiport amp. (at least for the XLR input)
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 3,212
    edited October 5
    All this stuff you're asking for costs money. This amp is about sound. Find an amp with all the features you mention and let me know how much it costs.
    I don't find my knobs wobbly, you don't use the knobs with the remote in hand.
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800, Usher R1.5
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro, MG Audio Design Planus Cu2,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • SIHABSIHAB Posts: 282
    It's not personal, it audio. Please forgive me if it was taken that way.
    I'm just suggesting options the potential buyer might consider.
    This amp reads like an amp for tough to drive speakers or floorstanders.
    An integrated amp is usually considered when there is space
    considerations. (or easy of use)



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