Doing a little spec research shows a damping factor of 2000!!! That's extremely high. In fact, I cannot recall seeing a rating that high before. I might be wrong, but that seems to indicate a ton of global feedback, which is not a good thing.
That's a pretty common side effect of lots of feedback. More than 100 is really not necessary. But it really depends on the design. More stages = more feedback to get all the stages to act nicely.
Those Crown amps have a ton of feedback and that's bad juju.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
here is the answer to your questions about the high damping factor and negative feedback.
The damping factor is a calculated value of the engineering design. The calculation may differ from one to another manufacturer.
The THD+N 0.006% was measured using A-Weighting method whereby the measurement naturally lowered (favorable to the readers?).
In Srajan review, the published AP report shows THD+N at 0.02321%. This is direct measurement without A-Weighting filter in the Audio Precision machine.
This tells us that there is no large local/global feedback. EX-M1 uses a relatively small feedback loop at stage one amplification. Kinki Studio chief Mr. Liu comment was, large local/global feedback loop is undesirable as the sound will be muffled or overly smoothen - this is definitely not Kinki Studio house sound.
I'll stop pickin' at this after one more comment.
It's hard to reconcile the very low THD levels and high DF (i.e., low output impedance) reported for these amps with the notion of very limited amounts of feedback... although low feedback is compatible with early comments on these amps of very high levels of gain.
the new gain switch on the does come in handy, as when I first turned the amp on and played music the amp was set on high gain. at 12 the volume was as loud as I like to listen. putting it on low gain 40 was loud but still lower than the high gain setting of 12.
I can SEE why the DHL guy didn't want to bring the box into your house for you. With KINKI STUDIO in big letters on the side he probably thought you had some crazy $EX stuff in there!
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
Nice Marv, don't worry too much about the DF, or global feedback. If it sounds good to you, meshes well with it's playmates, that's all that matters. Congrats on the new toy.
That faceplate though, makes my eyes go buggy.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
i mentioned to them that you can't read the name from your chair and suggested to back light it or paint it with a metallic paint. how about red or gloss black.
you don't like playing with two ole knobs
I really like intergrateds also. I have an Anthem that is great. This Kinki is interesting.
2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
There are three things that give a man a false sense of courage, a keyboard, alcohol and a firearm.
Motorhead, 4.12.20
tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there
Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb and dumber.
i was listening to a jazz cut that started out with a sax solo and in between notes and breath breaks i could hear this sort of reverb harmonics lowly in the background. i was sitting there trying to figure out what it was, then a piano and drums joined in. it was the sax causing the strings of the piano to vibrate and create harmonic overtones to the tunes of the sax. this amp is pulling in some weird (nice) stuff.
That video was something good to watch for sure. I know being there would be the best way to judge.
The Kinki seemed like a great power amp pushing what was fed to it. It seemed to be a great match for his components and speakers for sure.
I loved how much better the sound, sounded when he used the clock in the CD player instead of the one in the DAC. I heard the sound IMPROVE!
But from his phone being the microphone source for us to listen by, I found the sound from that stupid cheap outlet block and generic power cords to be better sounding than the $11k ( total) power block and power cords. I'm saying, I did hear a difference but...
Also, that magnetic plug thing did affect the sound in a negative way for sure. So that sure tells me, power from the outlet itself , CAN change a stereo's sound. I was a skeptic but still believed all the people WITH EXPERIENCE that you do, or can get improvement of sound ( that comes out of speakers way down the chain ) from upgrading a power cable sometimes.
That was very cool to watch!
Thanks
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
Not sure if I care for the faceplate either, but it probably doesn’t show fingerprints.
The remote control should negate the need for touching the controls. I avoid going near my gear...that's how cosmetic accidents happen.
"So hot it burnsMice!"~DK
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
Price seems to be climbing based on demand. Website shows it at $2,898 today and they claim a 3-4 week shipping delay. Looking for something interesting to give my son to upgrade his system. The Parasound A21 at $2,495 for his modded out 3.1's is at the top of my list right now. Replacing his Emotiva PT-100 with a Carver C-1 I just finished rebuilding from the ground up so not so sold in the integrated aspect.
Price seems to be climbing based on demand. Website shows it at $2,898 today and they claim a 3-4 week shipping delay. Looking for something interesting to give my son to upgrade his system. The Parasound A21 at $2,495 for his modded out 3.1's is at the top of my list right now. Replacing his Emotiva PT-100 with a Carver C-1 I just finished rebuilding from the ground up so not so sold in the integrated aspect.
Clean layout. Could it benefit from isolating the amps?
I don't like the looks of the binding posts. I'd be interested to know
how you like them.
12v trigger?
Sensitivity? How does it sound with various components?
Be cool to have a sensitivity switch seeing as how this is
a multiport amp. (at least for the XLR input)
All this stuff you're asking for costs money. This amp is about sound. Find an amp with all the features you mention and let me know how much it costs.
I don't find my knobs wobbly, you don't use the knobs with the remote in hand.
It's not personal, it audio. Please forgive me if it was taken that way.
I'm just suggesting options the potential buyer might consider.
This amp reads like an amp for tough to drive speakers or floorstanders.
An integrated amp is usually considered when there is space
considerations. (or easy of use)
Comments
That's a pretty common side effect of lots of feedback. More than 100 is really not necessary. But it really depends on the design. More stages = more feedback to get all the stages to act nicely.
Those Crown amps have a ton of feedback and that's bad juju.
H9
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
H9
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
The damping factor is a calculated value of the engineering design. The calculation may differ from one to another manufacturer.
The THD+N 0.006% was measured using A-Weighting method whereby the measurement naturally lowered (favorable to the readers?).
In Srajan review, the published AP report shows THD+N at 0.02321%. This is direct measurement without A-Weighting filter in the Audio Precision machine.
This tells us that there is no large local/global feedback. EX-M1 uses a relatively small feedback loop at stage one amplification. Kinki Studio chief Mr. Liu comment was, large local/global feedback loop is undesirable as the sound will be muffled or overly smoothen - this is definitely not Kinki Studio house sound.
My reply previously to a guy.
Many thanks.
Best regards,
Alvin
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
I'll stop pickin' at this after one more comment.
It's hard to reconcile the very low THD levels and high DF (i.e., low output impedance) reported for these amps with the notion of very limited amounts of feedback... although low feedback is compatible with early comments on these amps of very high levels of gain.
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
I can SEE why the DHL guy didn't want to bring the box into your house for you. With KINKI STUDIO in big letters on the side he probably thought you had some crazy $EX stuff in there!
Vinyl: Fluance RT82 * Nagaoka MP-110 * Bottlehead Reduction + Integration Upgrade * KAB RF1
Video: Hisense 55H8F * Panasonic DMP-UB200 * ROKU Streaming Stick + * Z-line Designs Elektra
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
That faceplate though, makes my eyes go buggy.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
you don't like playing with two ole knobs
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
There are three things that give a man a false sense of courage, a keyboard, alcohol and a firearm.
Motorhead, 4.12.20
tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there
Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb and dumber.
i was listening to a jazz cut that started out with a sax solo and in between notes and breath breaks i could hear this sort of reverb harmonics lowly in the background. i was sitting there trying to figure out what it was, then a piano and drums joined in. it was the sax causing the strings of the piano to vibrate and create harmonic overtones to the tunes of the sax. this amp is pulling in some weird (nice) stuff.
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
FWIW, I started with one, too, of which I am still quite fond (although, I'm sure, not strictly objectively).
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
The Kinki seemed like a great power amp pushing what was fed to it. It seemed to be a great match for his components and speakers for sure.
I loved how much better the sound, sounded when he used the clock in the CD player instead of the one in the DAC. I heard the sound IMPROVE!
But from his phone being the microphone source for us to listen by, I found the sound from that stupid cheap outlet block and generic power cords to be better sounding than the $11k ( total) power block and power cords. I'm saying, I did hear a difference but...
Also, that magnetic plug thing did affect the sound in a negative way for sure. So that sure tells me, power from the outlet itself , CAN change a stereo's sound. I was a skeptic but still believed all the people WITH EXPERIENCE that you do, or can get improvement of sound ( that comes out of speakers way down the chain ) from upgrading a power cable sometimes.
That was very cool to watch!
Thanks
I don’t think even my Boulder has that much
Good to hear it sounds good, that’s all that matters anyway
Current Gear:
Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2
Main speakers system evolution over the years:
Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???
Old Gear:
Speakers:
BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
Source:
Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
Preamplification:
Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
Amplification:
HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
Subwoofer:
Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
The remote control should negate the need for touching the controls. I avoid going near my gear...that's how cosmetic accidents happen.
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
How do you clean? Or better yet how often?
https://www.digitaldeckcovers.com/
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
Game Room: Carver M4.0t, Carver C-4000, Oppo BDP-105, SDA SRS 1.2tl
Bar/Card Room: Carver TFM-55, Carver C-1(BillD), Oppo BDP-93, SDA SRS 3.1
Son's Room: Carver TFM-55, Carver C-1(BillD), Laptop/AQ Dragonfly, SDA SRS 3.1
Bedroom: McIntosh MC150, Cambridge CXN, SDA 2Btl
Outdoor Pool Area: Yamaha R-N803 with four Polk Atrium 6
HT: Polk RTi A9s, CSi-A6, RT-65, RTi-A3's, Marantz SR5012, XPA3, UDP-203, Epson 5040UB
that 2898 is sgd not usd. it's $2122 us
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
Game Room: Carver M4.0t, Carver C-4000, Oppo BDP-105, SDA SRS 1.2tl
Bar/Card Room: Carver TFM-55, Carver C-1(BillD), Oppo BDP-93, SDA SRS 3.1
Son's Room: Carver TFM-55, Carver C-1(BillD), Laptop/AQ Dragonfly, SDA SRS 3.1
Bedroom: McIntosh MC150, Cambridge CXN, SDA 2Btl
Outdoor Pool Area: Yamaha R-N803 with four Polk Atrium 6
HT: Polk RTi A9s, CSi-A6, RT-65, RTi-A3's, Marantz SR5012, XPA3, UDP-203, Epson 5040UB
Jbl Lx44
Optonica Sa 5105
Blue Jean 12 gauge cable
Audioquest evergreen 3.5mm to rca cable
Technics Sl BD22 TT
Randomness:
Klh model 26's
Peavey Pr15's
Gls cables for peaveys
Numark DM1175 Preamp mixer
Random cables
Bic f12
Svs soundpath subwoofer cable
Lafayette Lr-200a amplifier
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
I figured time and gravity might do it but...
Quality parts part caught my attention...
Love the XLR inputs.
No phono, tuner, headphone jack or DAC....
S/N is just over the wire. I'll be interested to hear what you hear.
Maybe better to drop some of the inputs or move the IEC...
the money goes into the interconnects.
Muting? Clipping protection, overheating protection?
Warranty?
Clean layout. Could it benefit from isolating the amps?
I don't like the looks of the binding posts. I'd be interested to know
how you like them.
12v trigger?
Sensitivity? How does it sound with various components?
Be cool to have a sensitivity switch seeing as how this is
a multiport amp. (at least for the XLR input)
I don't find my knobs wobbly, you don't use the knobs with the remote in hand.
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
I'm just suggesting options the potential buyer might consider.
This amp reads like an amp for tough to drive speakers or floorstanders.
An integrated amp is usually considered when there is space
considerations. (or easy of use)