McIntosh says no way to MQA.......BRAVO!!!
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Like a lot of hifi hooey, the green pen thing has a bit of intuitive appeal. Lasers used for redbook CD players are red (well, infrared) and green is the complement (or, if one prefers, the opposite) of red, so one could kind of rationalize some kind of value in the tweak.
I - ahem - did try it with a green Sharpie on a few burned discs.
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Jim Collinson at Linn doesn't think it's good for music.
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SCompRacer wrote: »Jim Collinson at Linn doesn't think it's good for music.
https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music
Neither does Benchmark, Bryston, Ayre, Playback Designs or Schiit.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
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I canceled my Tidal sub. Not going to support MQA. I'm back to buying Vinyl and will look at going back to iTunes music.
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When recording engineers learn how to do their jobs correctly, I might look into another format. All the formats in the world won't help a sh_t recording with smashed dynamics.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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FWIW -- I think the damage is typically done in mastering not necessarily in recording -- but I don't do the stuff for a living so I'm certainly not certain of that.
Plenty of gorgeously recorded and mastered music available right now today -- depends on genre in many cases, I think.
This one sounds pretty good to me, e.g., redbook CD or vinyl (that's all that I can vouch for).
https://youtu.be/XdgY-CQsbKU -
KennethSwauger wrote: »This is an article written by Peter Moncrieff who used to publish an audiophile magazine called IAR (International Audio Review) that was well respected. It takes a little patience to plow through his writing style but there is genuine knowledge to be gleaned. Here is his opinion on the subject:
http://www.iar-80.com/page170.html
When I cut and pasted the article into a Word document for offline reading, the resulting document was 54 pages long. Here is my summary.
I do not agree with the author's assertion that most of the world's digital engineers haven't the slightest clue about how digital actually works:
"Thus, this article will also shock thousands of digital engineers around the world, into realizing that most of the digital products they have designed for the past 34 years are fatally defective, actually butchering the signal, rather than correctly reconstructing the original signal in the time domain from the digital samples. This article will show them that, despite their noble intent and brilliant brains and PhD digital education, they actually have such utter lack of comprehension, about how the basics of digital actually work, that they commit 100 huge blunders in their designs of the digital products that millions of you have purchased.
These 100-blunder digital product designs butcher the signal (rather than correctly reconstructing it), because they violate the way digital actually works. These 100 blunders, committed by digital engineers worldwide (and by publications that support their views) not only are high in number, but also are each severe in degree, with many being completely backwards, the very opposite of the truth about the way digital actually works. The high number and severity of these 100 blunders proves that, regrettably, digital engineers worldwide (and their supporting media) don't have the slightest clue in comprehending how digital actually works."
Digital technology is a tool that is used for creating home entertainment equipment. That technology can be implemented many different ways to suit a variety of consumer tastes, designer goals, and manufacturer price points. Saying that a digital designer is incompetent solely because he/she did not adhere to a theoretical ideal of signal accuracy is as absurd as saying that all amplifier designers do not know how amplifiers work because the output signals stray far from the theoretical ideal.
I do agree with the author's (and with McIntosh's) assertion that MQA is not an audiophile quality, high resolution format.
The author asserts that MQA is "wrong" because it adds euphonic distortion to the original signal. According to the author, the MQA specification deletes the original last eight bits (bits 17-24) of a 24 bit sample and replaces the original high frequency information contained in those bits with noise. That noise imparts an increased sense of air and spaciousness to the recording, at the expense of diminished high frequency detail. The author essentially sums up MQA as:
"...a digital playback system that effectively adds the distortion of a further artificial reverb chamber, with a heavy extra dose of bloated space and ambience added to what the mastering engineer chose to give you..."
Therefore, MQA is essentially a 16 bit digital system with an additional 8 bits of artificial ambiance and artificial spatial information. In addition to MQA's technical shortcomings, its business model for deployment is troubling. According to the article linked below, it appears that MQA is designed to squeeze payments out of everyone in the music production chain: artists, studio producers, manufacturers, distributors, and consumers.
https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music
I wish we could go back to the days when record companies made money by producing good NEW music that people wanted to buy, rather than constantly repackaging OLD music in a never ending stream of "remasterings" and "new formats".Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
In order for record companies to produce good music, they first have to have real musicians that know how to read, play, and sing music.
I can't tell one female singer from the last one I just listened to, they all sound the same.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
How is this related to MQA?In order for record companies to produce good music, they first have to have real musicians that know how to read, play, and sing music.
I can't tell one female singer from the last one I just listened to, they all sound the same.
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Ah, ok, I see that now. That wasn't there in Darque's initial post, he edited his post.Read the last two paragraphs of the previous post.
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In order for record companies to produce good music, they first have to have real musicians that know how to read, play, and sing music.
That requires dedication, study, and discipline that appears to be in desperate short supply among generations that came after the baby boomers.I can't tell one female singer from the last one I just listened to, they all sound the same.
That is because how they sound is irrelevant. What's important is the sexual fantasy they are selling...just like a stripper. Do you think strip club patrons care about how the strippers "sound"?
When you think of female music icons from the '50s to the '80s, they weren't buying fake body parts from plastic surgeons, getting on stage half naked, and doing sexually suggestive/provocative photo shoots.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Apparently, you forgot about one of the biggest 80s stars! Found a tame pic.DarqueKnight wrote: »When you think of female music icons from the '50s to the '80s, they weren't buying fake body parts from plastic surgeons, getting on stage half naked, and doing sexually suggestive/provocative photo shoots.
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No, I haven't heard any, but have read an awful lot about it. It is lossy, it is heavily copyright protected meaning you cannot make a copy, it is proprietary to Meridian (who have tried crap like this before), the licensing costs big bucks and you need new gear to decode it. It's a win for Meridian's wallet and the record companies. It's a loss for the consumers.
Sorry Jesse, the irony in this post is killing me.
You're slamming something that you HAVE NOT LISTENED TO. Isn't that the exact opposite of what many of the long term members on this forum (including you) have been preaching for YEARS?
Just look back at that post through the lens of a cable debate thread.
I have to say that you should probably not take such a strong stance till you have given it a fair chance and are able to formulate your own opinion.
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Upstatemax wrote: »No, I haven't heard any, but have read an awful lot about it. It is lossy, it is heavily copyright protected meaning you cannot make a copy, it is proprietary to Meridian (who have tried crap like this before), the licensing costs big bucks and you need new gear to decode it. It's a win for Meridian's wallet and the record companies. It's a loss for the consumers.
Sorry Jesse, the irony in this post is killing me.
You're slamming something that you HAVE NOT LISTENED TO. Isn't that the exact opposite of what many of the long term members on this forum (including you) have been preaching for YEARS?
Just look back at that post through the lens of a cable debate thread.
I have to say that you should probably not take such a strong stance till you have given it a fair chance and are able to formulate your own opinion.
Nope, sometimes diligent research is all one needs in a matter such as this. Now, if we were talking about different MQA playback devices, which I don’t know if there are such things, then I would concede your point.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Nope, sometimes diligent research is all one needs in a matter such as this. Now, if we were talking about different MQA playback devices, which I don’t know if there are such things, then I would concede your point.
That response sounds an awful lot like a cable denier.
Talking about "research" rather than just listening to something.
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Could this situation be equated to the whole DVD vs. DIVX thing from back in the day?
Hypothetically say that DIVX supposedly had "richer" colors and "better" audio than DVD, one could still be completely against the format entirely on the grounds of it's container - a protected proprietary format that required a separate hardware player to be purchased - one that "phoned home" every so often to check in with the mothership.
It's simply refusing to accept the content within that type of container, regardless of if the content itself might be "superior" in quality.
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Upstatemax wrote: »Nope, sometimes diligent research is all one needs in a matter such as this. Now, if we were talking about different MQA playback devices, which I don’t know if there are such things, then I would concede your point.
That response sounds an awful lot like a cable denier.
Talking about "research" rather than just listening to something.
You are missing the point.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
When I first read Jesse's statement that very sentiment crossed my mind, that it did sound a bit hypocritical, until I thought a bit more and realized that deep down I felt the same way. And, for reasons that made good sense to me.
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Does one really need to hear a format that removes the original musical information and replaces it with proprietary noise?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
That sounds worse than mp3s!Does one really need to hear a format that removes the original musical information and replaces it with proprietary noise?
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Next time I listen to an MQA album, I'll have to keep an ear out for all of that noise...
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Kind of concerning that you haven't noticed already as it's no secret what they are doing.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
mdaudioguy wrote: »
Apparently, you forgot about one of the biggest 80s stars! Found a tame pic.DarqueKnight wrote: »When you think of female music icons from the '50s to the '80s, they weren't buying fake body parts from plastic surgeons, getting on stage half naked, and doing sexually suggestive/provocative photo shoots.
Yes, I did forget about her. Although she is a very successful entertainer, I don't consider her a "singer" or "music icon" any more than I consider a billionaire drug cartel leader a "successful businessman".
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Does one really need to hear a format that removes the original musical information and replaces it with proprietary noise?
Which is one of the reasons I have no interest. I listen to digital, but, I accept what I get and enjoy the occasional great recording that comes along. If I had my wishes I'd have RTR with high quality, or master, tapes. That's not realistic. What I'm not going to do is jump on a proprietary format that hasn't proven to be substantially better than what's currently available. A few special interest people bloviating does not sway me. In todays social media society we would know if it was really great.
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DarqueKnight wrote: »mdaudioguy wrote: »
Apparently, you forgot about one of the biggest 80s stars! Found a tame pic.DarqueKnight wrote: »When you think of female music icons from the '50s to the '80s, they weren't buying fake body parts from plastic surgeons, getting on stage half naked, and doing sexually suggestive/provocative photo shoots.
Yes, I did forget about her. Although she is a very successful entertainer, I don't consider her a "singer" or "music icon" any more than I consider a billionaire drug cartel leader a "successful businessman".
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I had a chance to hear this MQA thing recently. Can't say I'm for or against it as I found nothing stellar about the sound. Just seemed more rolled off to me at the extremes to make it sound smoother.
Did it make me want to go out and buy MQA certified gear ?
No
Did I think SACD or DSD or even a good redbook cdp sounded better ?
Yep
But...to each his own, roll with what makes ya happy.HT SYSTEM-
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I was ready to order Exile On Main Street and Wheels Of Fire today from CD Japan. These are some of the first MQA encoded CDs available. I have the SHM SACDs of both these albums, so I wanted to compare the audio quality between both discs. After that I was going to rip the MQA CDs, and play those files through the Lumin. Since it now supports MQA, they would play at 192/24, and I wanted to determine if the audio stayed the same, improved, or deteriorated.
Well, at least once a year my CC gets hacked, and it happened again yesterday. BofA send me a fraud alert at 3AM, and now I have to wait a week for a new card. LOL.
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Did you miss the post I made equating this to the DVD vs. DIVX situation?Upstatemax wrote: »My point is that I find it ironic that he is so hard against MQA and he has not even listened to it.
