McIntosh says no way to MQA.......BRAVO!!!
F1nut
Posts: 50,549
"The C52’s DAC will accept PCM sample rates of 16, 24, and 32 bits, 32kHz–384kHz; DSD64, DSD128, and DSD256; and DXD 352.8kHz and DXD 384kHz. About the only standard digital format the C52 doesn’t support is Master Quality Authenticated (MQA, about which McIntosh’s engineers prefer to take a wait-and-see position, finding the format too lossy, with distortion that doesn’t meet the company’s high standards)."
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Comments
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too lossy -- interesting.
It will be interesting, I think, to read the epitaph for MQA in a couple of years when it finally expires with a whimper, not a bang -- to see how its somewhat tawdry trajectory is retro-rationalized.
MQA (FWIW) reminds me of DIVX, a solution in search of a problem, that causes problems of its own
Remember DIVX? (not to be confused with DivX, which is a different kettle of fish)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX
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"A solution in search of a problem"....love it Doc.
I might opine though, that the problem was....money. Seems audio always introduces new things that require more or better gear to take advantage of. Video too, just think the whole HDMI iterations. It would be nice if they could just concentrate on better recordings, to play on the gear we already have, but that doesn't generate revenue.
In a nutshell, I guess we call that capitalism eh ? HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
"The C52’s DAC will accept PCM sample rates of 16, 24, and 32 bits, 32kHz–384kHz; DSD64, DSD128, and DSD256; and DXD 352.8kHz and DXD 384kHz. About the only standard digital format the C52 doesn’t support is Master Quality Authenticated (MQA, about which McIntosh’s engineers prefer to take a wait-and-see position, finding the format too lossy, with distortion that doesn’t meet the company’s high standards)."
Just curious Jesse, have you heard many MQA tracks? Aside from the fact it's not "pure", what don't you like about it? Not meant to be argumentative -
No, I haven't heard any, but have read an awful lot about it. It is lossy, it is heavily copyright protected meaning you cannot make a copy, it is proprietary to Meridian (who have tried crap like this before), the licensing costs big bucks and you need new gear to decode it. It's a win for Meridian's wallet and the record companies. It's a loss for the consumers.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I haven't felt a desire to try it, and the more I read about it the less interested I am.
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I haven't felt a desire to try it, and the more I read about it the less interested I am.
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I got a demo of MQA at a local hifi shop a few months ago. Went in to shop a specific integrated and instead they pointed me to Meridian and MQA. Gave some demos of MQA and non-MQA tracks. One that I recall was "Rider on the Storm" - Doors. They kept gushing about the MQA version like "isn't this so awesome?". I'm thinking to myself every time "I really like the original tracks better". But I let them prattle on and eventually left. The MQA tracks were - to me - uninvolving, lackluster, flat sounding. Can't put a real finger on it but I just didn't dig it.SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
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it's got a little of that good old fashioned black magic (ahem) folded into it -- proprietary algorithms to fold and unfold the data.
Proprietary, in the long run, just never seems like a good idea for a platform.
Just my opinion, albeit hardly a humble one.
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This is an article written by Peter Moncrieff who used to publish an audiophile magazine called IAR (International Audio Review) that was well respected. It takes a little patience to plow through his writing style but there is genuine knowledge to be gleaned. Here is his opinion on the subject:
http://www.iar-80.com/page170.html -
KennethSwauger wrote: »This is an article written by Peter Moncrieff who used to publish an audiophile magazine called IAR (International Audio Review) that was well respected. It takes a little patience to plow through his writing style but there is genuine knowledge to be gleaned. Here is his opinion on the subject:
http://www.iar-80.com/page170.html
Thanks for sharing that, Ken -- and I am gonna read it... but...
I could not help but roll my eyes reading the first few paragraphs.
The level of humility communicated by the author is -- well -- words fail me.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »it's got a little of that good old fashioned black magic (ahem) folded into it -- proprietary algorithms to fold and unfold the data.
Proprietary, in the long run, just never seems like a good idea for a platform.
Just my opinion, albeit hardly a humble one.
Even Apple somewhat recognizes that fact.
HT SYSTEM-
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Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
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lsi 9's -
mhardy6647 wrote: »it's got a little of that good old fashioned black magic (ahem) folded into it -- proprietary algorithms to fold and unfold the data.
Proprietary, in the long run, just never seems like a good idea for a platform.
Just my opinion, albeit hardly a humble one.
Even Apple somewhat recognizes that fact.
Don't get me started...
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oops, too late
Imagine if Henry Ford had called the Model T an ecosystem instead of insisting that the customer could have Any color you want, as long as it's black.
We'd probably still be driving cars with two wheel brakes and gravity-feed fuel systems.
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"The level of humility communicated by the author is -- well -- words fail me."
Yea, he raises hyperbole to a new limit, but I've always felt smarter after I've absorbed what he says. I still look at the old issues of IAR he's done in the past for clues as to classic gear. He was one of the first people to really investigate the changes in sound produced by different capacitors. Some of his articles on turntable design are very instructional, especially the effects of bearings. The same for cables and speaker wire. He along with Enid Lumley (she was the original tweaker) developed some speaker wire using multiple runs of Romex that were supposed to be good.
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Wait a minute! Caps all have different sound signatures????
Mind Blown.... -
I read about 80% of the first page of Peter Moncrieff's document. I've edited lots of lengthy legal and medical documents on a professional level, and even I was left feeling physically exhausted.
To his credit, he did make some rather interesting statements and he has a knack for getting his point across. But once he builds a phrase that he likes, he's not afraid to use it repeatedly. HAHAHA -
KennethSwauger wrote: »Yea, he raises hyperbole to a new limit, but I've always felt smarter after I've absorbed what he says.
^^^^ Yes, this. -
Wait a minute! Caps all have different sound signatures????
Mind Blown....
Don't listen. People are just trying to sell you expensive stuff. -
All sorts of flavors, though I'm not sure the caps actually TASTE any differently...
Go to your room!!!
LOL Smart ankle -
KennethSwauger wrote: »This is an article written by Peter Moncrieff who used to publish an audiophile magazine called IAR (International Audio Review) that was well respected. It takes a little patience to plow through his writing style but there is genuine knowledge to be gleaned. Here is his opinion on the subject:
http://www.iar-80.com/page170.html
Thanks Ken, quite an informative read.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You're welcome.
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I can’t comment on MQA since I haven’t evaluated it. When the Japanese MQA CDs are available on 6/20 I will get Exile On Main Street, and Wheels Of Fire. I have both as SHM SACDs, will rip the MQA CDs to the Lumin, and then do a comparison. At that point, I should have a starting point to be able to discuss MQA.
I do agree proprietary and licensing have no place in audio formats.
That article made me think the author is the Roger Russell of digital.
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Three 20 amp circuits. -
KennethSwauger wrote: »This is an article written by Peter Moncrieff who used to publish an audiophile magazine called IAR (International Audio Review) that was well respected. It takes a little patience to plow through his writing style but there is genuine knowledge to be gleaned. Here is his opinion on the subject:
http://www.iar-80.com/page170.html
Great reading, while I agree with much said, in the end, your equipment translates all the data, MQA, PCM, etc...and IF what you hear sounds GREAT...then that's what its all about...
I happen to enjoy Master Recordings on Tidal, but have also noted that vinyl has bested it...
YMMV...
Juan
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No idea what MQA was. Heard it tossed around lots. Now I know. Also why I don’t care.
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No idea what MQA was. Heard it tossed around lots. Now I know. Also why I don’t care.
I've heard of it but never experienced it, and, I'm with you Halen, I don't care. It will have to be proven to me that it's nearly the second coming before I'll go down that path.
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My lumin does full mqa. I can hear the difference between a regularl file on tidl and the MQA version kn tidal. The MQA version sounds better to my ears BUT, I'm not 100% convinced its because of MQA. I think a lot of it is a better mastering. On tidal, sometimes i see 3-4 icons of the same cd. You can usually hear the difference between the versions probably because they were mastered differently.
So, while i can say on the Lumin MQA does sound better and streams at a better bit rate ( 24/96 24/129. 24/192) I just cant tell if its the MQA or not. Blue Fox, your test might be the better way to go.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
I am still beating my way through the link that Ken kindly provided (I wonder if the author is like that in person?) -- but my sense at this point is that the aural features of MQA are sort of a modern, digital, ostensibly sophisticated reboot of tricks like the (in)famous Aphex Aural Exciter of the 1970s.
Audiopiles aren't supposed to fall for cheap tricks* like smiley EQ curves, midbass humps, or loudness buttons.
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* Audiophiles are supposed to fall for expensive tricks like quantum purifiers and green pens for CDs and brilliant pebbles.
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True Mark, with sound being so subjective you can convince some people anywhere that cd's coated in Donkey dung sound better and they'd buy it, write rave reviews, maybe complain about the smell, but still fork out the cash.
Just enjoy the music as you see fit, doesn't have to cost a years salary and you certainly don't have to fall for every "trick" that comes along.HT SYSTEM-
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Cables-
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Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
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lsi 9's -
I was just thinking back to the late 80's, early 90s, and the magic marker craze for CD's just a few days ago. You audiophile suckers will try anything.
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