My personal experience: Acoustic Zen Sartori speaker wires
Comments
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... or is it not worth the effort.
Maybe your tired arguments are boring?
Why don't you do the test yourself?
It's not that I (or anyone else) have to prove something to you, I don't care.
Get off the thread. -
@Joey_V are you planning on any other comparisons? Which cables are you using for the sf?
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Joey, nice write up.
Thanks for taking the time to express YOUR opinions on YOUR gear in YOUR room. I think this is being missed by a lot. Keep it up.
As for for your review style, it worked for me. Cut and dry versus the usual culprit of terms that make zero sense to me. It is an "average joe's" review and I liked it. No pun intended....Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!! -
It only requires familiarity. I have a handful of music is use for demo purposes. I know that material backwards and forwards and any changes I make in my own rig, I always play these 8-10 songs to evaluate.
Things like decay of a cymbal, depth of background singers, position of background singers, notes of the bass drum, air around the vocals, plucking of a guitar string, soundstaging cues, etc, etc, etc.
Once you have familiarity and know what to listen for the differences, minor and major, are easy to hear. Very easy, actually.
H9
I think familiarity and knowing a song backwards and forwards is two different aspects with the later being what one would need to detect a difference in sound. Point taken. IMO, it's not just hearing but visualization in conjunction with what one is hearing. That's my goal in this journey.
And apologies to Joey for hi jacking this thread.
Enjoyed the read. -
Dayyyummm, someone opened up the worm can!
+1 heiney9 I too have pieces of music that I know and go back to when testing a piece of gear or a set up. Am I already jaded or skewed in one direction because I have prior knowledge and certain expectations from that particular piece? Maybe, but, I don't think so. I'm looking for how that particular piece of equipment handles that particular piece of music. I also believe blind testing can be beneficial, but, not the end all. Can be useful to confirm what I already believed to be true.
I also tend to lean towards vcwatkins thinking in that I wouldn't eliminate brands based on TOTL pricing. If Joey is setting up a system and that is part of the criteria for him then godspeed. I, on the other hand, have to look for the sweet spot in a lineup to maximize my dollar. Never know where you're going to find that diamond in the rough. -
another for the bozo list.
Ignore works great!
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The reason is because if I audition a cable brand, I need to know that I can be comfortable affording their best units.... I don't want to audition a brand and not be able to buy their top cables. WW is just too expensive when you get up there, for example. Another reason why I'm not interested in hearing Nordost's Odin2 or Transparent's Opus line.
Thanks for the review. Very interesting. My only experience with AZ is with interconnects and they're definitely keepers.
I don't understand your audition criterion above though. Many stellar cable manufacturers have Ludicrous Price lines. Why eliminate from consideration all cables from some of the best manufacturers based solely on the price of their top level pricing? I can understand wanting to limit the universe of products to consider, but this method seems arbitrary and possibly even counterproductive.
He posted his approach to this hobby in the Emma's Speakers thread. I respect Joey in that he knows what he is after and it isn't always the best sound he can afford. Admitting that to a rabid forum takes some serious gonads.
My befuddlement has to do with his approach to selection for audition as per his stated criterion; not his overall approach to the hobby. I've just never found myself eliminating a whole brand based on the stratospheric price of its highest priced item; so I'm having trouble relating.
BMW makes a $400k car which I can definitely not afford. But I don't disregard all BMW's when considering what to test drive. The same reasoning might be applied to Aston Martin and Mercedes if you get my drift.
We all have our own methods and journeys and I respect that. I try to learn from others' experiences, which is the reason I am reading here. But in this case, I just wasn't able to figure out how I might benefit from this particular criterion. I'm interested in any further comments Joey might have.
I guess the best way for me to describe my position is that of 2 things:
1. I am very content with what I discovered. Each brand has a mantra or a philosophy. Currently, I find that I agree with AQ. Will that change? Maybe. But for now, it works exceedingly well in my system.
2. I am tired. It takes a lot (I mean a LOT) of energy and finances to move a system like this. It's not easy to start wandering into another brand (say Transparent for example) and listen to one of their midline speaker wire and then not want to move up.... then up... then up... then up. I have reached the end of the road for AQ, I will likely move finances over to the XLR interconnects and power cords to complete the loom.
So, to be concise.
2 things.
I am happy.
I am tired.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Dayyyummm, someone opened up the worm can!
+1 heiney9 I too have pieces of music that I know and go back to when testing a piece of gear or a set up. Am I already jaded or skewed in one direction because I have prior knowledge and certain expectations from that particular piece? Maybe, but, I don't think so. I'm looking for how that particular piece of equipment handles that particular piece of music. I also believe blind testing can be beneficial, but, not the end all. Can be useful to confirm what I already believed to be true.
I also tend to lean towards vcwatkins thinking in that I wouldn't eliminate brands based on TOTL pricing. If Joey is setting up a system and that is part of the criteria for him then godspeed. I, on the other hand, have to look for the sweet spot in a lineup to maximize my dollar. Never know where you're going to find that diamond in the rough.
I guess the best way to put it for me is that for now, I'll stay put. When I am ready to audition other brands, then that means I am ready to talk the talk.
I'm not in the mood to peruse and try other brands just to try it... if I'm trying it, I better be committed to going all the way.
There's gotta be value in the piece. I landed a heck of a deal on the WEL. Had it not been for that, I would not actually have been able to afford it (sadly).
The cheapest Odin2 is mid-$teens. The cheapest non Magnum Transparent Opus that I have seen is $17,000. As you can see, I am bound by limitations on the budget as well.
I ain't doing that. Can I? Yes. Will I? No. Atleast not yet.
And if this little exercise that was blessed upon me by @WagnerRC .. if this exercise has showed me anything... it's that the WELS are very special to me.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
@Joey_V are you planning on any other comparisons? Which cables are you using for the sf?
I have comparisons of AZ matrix, silver (I think that's what it's called) and some Harmonic Tech XLR that I tried out extensively in the system.
As for other speaker wire comparisons, I think I will do an indepth AQ Oak vs WEL.
Also, I will try to do a comparison with my friend's Shunyata's, he has some top end ones.
Beyond that, I think I'm going to rest a little while unless there are other offers for me to try out their cables. I would honestly love the opportunity to do a TOTL cable shoot out someday... Odin 2 vs WEL vs Transparent Opus vs others.
But the logistics are very difficult.
And it takes a LOT out of me... it's not easy to do it.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Gotcha, thanks for fleshing that out Joey.
Happy and tired...those are good things, especially together. Finding what you like is what it's all about. With cables, once I found what I personally liked, it was nice to be able to take a respite from the reading and searching and buying and selling.
Congrats on the new rig!
b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
@Joey_V are you planning on any other comparisons? Which cables are you using for the sf?
I have comparisons of AZ matrix, silver (I think that's what it's called) and some Harmonic Tech XLR that I tried out extensively in the system.
As for other speaker wire comparisons, I think I will do an indepth AQ Oak vs WEL.
Also, I will try to do a comparison with my friend's Shunyata's, he has some top end ones.
Beyond that, I think I'm going to rest a little while unless there are other offers for me to try out their cables. I would honestly love the opportunity to do a TOTL cable shoot out someday... Odin 2 vs WEL vs Transparent Opus vs others.
But the logistics are very difficult.
And it takes a LOT out of me... it's not easy to do it.
That's why I could never do it right now. I don't have the time and energy to do it. At some point like you said you just call it quits. Could I do better, yes. But at which financial point . I'm not ready and willing to go there. I was a naysayer or a doubting Thomas for a long time. Now I believe but to a certain extent. -
Personally, I am a big cable fan, but I just can't grasp 5 figure prices. At best, there can only be a marginal improvement over lesser priced cables. Of course, you do get a lot of bling with higher priced cables.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I think resting where you are and enjoying what you've put together is absolutely a great thing. Enjoy
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Personally, I am a big cable fan, but I just can't grasp 5 figure prices. At best, there can only be a marginal improvement over lesser priced cables. Of course, you do get a lot of bling with higher priced cables.
I like the 'transparency' of the wireworld offerings and their prices. The materials are what inflate the cost. Spend more, get better materials. I know I hear the difference between their OFC and OCC copper. I would like to think the same applies to their silver, which is what greatly exaggerates the cost of their top two products.
What is their top wire single biwire 8ft?
And how much?
@DSkipMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I would honestly love the opportunity to do a TOTL cable shoot out someday... Odin 2 vs WEL vs Transparent Opus vs others.
*cough* and MIT *cough*afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
I'm glad a lot enjoyed the comparison... it's nice to shed some light into some cool gear.
Btw, I just took a peek at Whatsbestforum... those guys are lunatics as well.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I'm glad a lot enjoyed the comparison... it's nice to shed some light into some cool gear.
Btw, I just took a peek at Whatsbestforum... those guys are lunatics as well.
Glad you've tried something better than the 12 gauge zip cord you've been using, I still remember the day I went from standard 12 gauge to Canare 4S11...a nice star quad arrangement of wire that I did an honest bi-wire with easily, I think I was shocked at the change...only prompted more upgrades...now I run MIT speaker cables, no complaints. One never knows until...they...gasp...TRY! You've tried and heard the difference, amazing eh?
Yes, the difference has been solid. The WELS are the cherry on top. The system sounds very incomplete without it.
I have zero regrets spending the money on the WELS.
I feel that if there were no improvement or even if the improvements were subtle, I would have no problem getting rid of the cables as I didn't believe in them in the first place.
If that's not a testament to cabling, I don't know what is. I mean - why would I subject myself to the mental anguish of spending money for a 1-2% difference? I can do so much with the money.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I'm glad a lot enjoyed the comparison... it's nice to shed some light into some cool gear.
Btw, I just took a peek at Whatsbestforum... those guys are lunatics as well.
Glad you've tried something better than the 12 gauge zip cord you've been using, I still remember the day I went from standard 12 gauge to Canare 4S11...a nice star quad arrangement of wire that I did an honest bi-wire with easily, I think I was shocked at the change...only prompted more upgrades...now I run MIT speaker cables, no complaints. One never knows until...they...gasp...TRY! You've tried and heard the difference, amazing eh?
Yes, the difference has been solid. The WELS are the cherry on top. The system sounds very incomplete without it.
I have zero regrets spending the money on the WELS.
I feel that if there were no improvement or even if the improvements were subtle, I would have no problem getting rid of the cables as I didn't believe in them in the first place.
If that's not a testament to cabling, I don't know what is. I mean - why would I subject myself to the mental anguish of spending money for a 1-2% difference? I can do so much with the money.
There you have it. That's what it comes down to.
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Everyone here is wrong and I'm right! Don't hate me because I'm right (or beautiful), hate yourself because you're not.
I know you are but what am I! -
Wireworld's TOTL is an OCC solid silver that lists for $20k for an 8 footer. Might be a little off on price but it's right around that mark. I'm looking at moving to the second or third tier myself. Second tier is solid silver and third tier is OCC copper plated with silver.
What's occMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Same as the oak and welMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Same as the oak and wel
I assumed as much. The difference between them is construction and geometry.
Yep.
And pricing is freakin bloated as heck.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Guess the name turns me off makes me think of wally world. But I'd be game for trying some if I ever could.
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Guess the name turns me off makes me think of wally world. But I'd be game for trying some if I ever could.
I'm sure it's good.
Audioaficionado are drinking the ww koolaid so I'm sure it's tasty.
Some day I'll try it.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Well speak of the devil
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/speaker-wireworld-platinum-7-2-m-speaker-cables-2016-12-24-cables-33618-carrollwood-flMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Do it...do it... -
Great review. Thanks for posting your experiences Joey. I wish more people would do so.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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DarqueKnight wrote: »Great review. Thanks for posting your experiences Joey. I wish more people would do so.
But Ray, it is so much easier to discount people's actual experiences and remain oblivious than to actually try and gain those experiences for oneself.
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
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Not sure why you feel obligated to "correct" anyone on anything either.
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I see a lot of wrong information posted somewhat regularly on this forum.
Not sure there is an actual obligation to correct it, but I sense personal relations on this forum, are due to some members lacking the simple ability to ever think they are wrong.
You get a few thinking whatever they post is beyond reproach and are never wrong about anything, and it gets old, no matter what the topic or subject.
I have learned to simply ignore most comments.
Calling everyone out as a "troll" that disagrees or corrects something, is not really a productive gateway to getting along, but simply creating a clique that shuns any differing views or answers.
I think most tend to just roll their eyes, make no comment or simply "go along to get along"
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@K_M
Last I recall is that you were fed up with this forum and had decided to leave. What changed your mind?
I assume you must have found some redeeming value to this forum and I am curious what that is.
By the way, I think most people here understand that disagreement does not equate to trolling, just as being hungry does not equate to gluttony.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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