My personal experience: Acoustic Zen Sartori speaker wires

245

Comments

  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,214
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It only requires familiarity. I have a handful of music is use for demo purposes. I know that material backwards and forwards and any changes I make in my own rig, I always play these 8-10 songs to evaluate.

    Things like decay of a cymbal, depth of background singers, position of background singers, notes of the bass drum, air around the vocals, plucking of a guitar string, soundstaging cues, etc, etc, etc.

    Once you have familiarity and know what to listen for the differences, minor and major, are easy to hear. Very easy, actually.

    H9

    +1 again to H9's post. I would love it if my friends or wife would swap cables or the gear while I'm listening. However, they don't have the time, patience or care one bit and would think I'm nuts. One thing I also try to do on the 8-10 songs is pick 2-3 that aren't recorded well to see the effect the equipment has on them. Some of my favorite songs aren't the best recording but that doesn't mean I don't listen to them often.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,309
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It only requires familiarity. I have a handful of music is use for demo purposes. I know that material backwards and forwards and any changes I make in my own rig, I always play these 8-10 songs to evaluate.

    Things like decay of a cymbal, depth of background singers, position of background singers, notes of the bass drum, air around the vocals, plucking of a guitar string, soundstaging cues, etc, etc, etc.

    Once you have familiarity and know what to listen for the differences, minor and major, are easy to hear. Very easy, actually.

    H9

    Makes sense, except for one caveat.
    Why are so many afraid or skeptical of listening to something unbeknownst to them and being able to do what you say is very easy to do?

    The same minor and major differences would be present. The only difference would be, the listener would not be aware of what cable is presently being used.

    Have a friend, family member or whoever, hook up one or the other cable, walk into room and listen. Not sure how that test can be compromised or faulty, as it is the same thing you do when you audition 2 different cables, minus the knowledge of which you are presently listening to.

    Not saying "you" specifically. But it seems a very easy task to do.
    Or, is the conundrum, that it becomes more difficult when one is not aware?
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Epos-Now gone
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 91
    edited December 2016
    ... or is it not worth the effort.
    Maybe your tired arguments are boring?
    Why don't you do the test yourself?
    It's not that I (or anyone else) have to prove something to you, I don't care.
    Get off the thread.
    Studio 2 equipment;
    Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
    Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
    Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
    Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
    Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
    Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,433
    @Joey_V are you planning on any other comparisons? Which cables are you using for the sf?
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Signal Dig Coax, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Marantz DV-4200 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Rotel RDV 1045 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

  • mrbironmrbiron Posts: 4,991
    Joey, nice write up.
    Thanks for taking the time to express YOUR opinions on YOUR gear in YOUR room. I think this is being missed by a lot. Keep it up.

    As for for your review style, it worked for me. Cut and dry versus the usual culprit of terms that make zero sense to me. It is an "average joe's" review and I liked it. No pun intended....
    Zu Audio Omen MK-1B's, Peachtree Decco65, Bryston BDA-2, Cheap TT, PS Audio UPC200, PS Audio AC3's, Zu Mission SC's, HTPC, One, Bottlehead Reduction & Crack w/Speedball
  • footwedgefootwedge Posts: 475
    edited December 2016
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It only requires familiarity. I have a handful of music is use for demo purposes. I know that material backwards and forwards and any changes I make in my own rig, I always play these 8-10 songs to evaluate.

    Things like decay of a cymbal, depth of background singers, position of background singers, notes of the bass drum, air around the vocals, plucking of a guitar string, soundstaging cues, etc, etc, etc.

    Once you have familiarity and know what to listen for the differences, minor and major, are easy to hear. Very easy, actually.

    H9

    I think familiarity and knowing a song backwards and forwards is two different aspects with the later being what one would need to detect a difference in sound. Point taken. IMO, it's not just hearing but visualization in conjunction with what one is hearing. That's my goal in this journey.

    And apologies to Joey for hi jacking this thread.

    Enjoyed the read.
    2-Channel Office room
    Marantz SA8004> Joule Electra LA 150MII > B&K 200.2 > LSIM 703's
    Douglas Alpha ic's, MIT T2
    Need - room treatments, dedicated 20 amp circuits
    Looking for - new speakers and amp

    HT/ 2 Channel Living room
    Samsung 65KS8000FXZA
    Pioneer SC 27
    Parasound P5
    Parasound A23
    Oppo BDP 103
    Uverse DVR
    LSIM 703
    LSIM 704c
    LCI60's
    Velodyne EQ-Max 15
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,872
    Dayyyummm, someone opened up the worm can!

    +1 heiney9 I too have pieces of music that I know and go back to when testing a piece of gear or a set up. Am I already jaded or skewed in one direction because I have prior knowledge and certain expectations from that particular piece? Maybe, but, I don't think so. I'm looking for how that particular piece of equipment handles that particular piece of music. I also believe blind testing can be beneficial, but, not the end all. Can be useful to confirm what I already believed to be true.

    I also tend to lean towards vcwatkins thinking in that I wouldn't eliminate brands based on TOTL pricing. If Joey is setting up a system and that is part of the criteria for him then godspeed. I, on the other hand, have to look for the sweet spot in a lineup to maximize my dollar. Never know where you're going to find that diamond in the rough.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 91
    edited December 2016
    another for the bozo list.
    Ignore works great! :)
    Studio 2 equipment;
    Yamaha a-s2100 Amp, CD-2100 CD player, T-S500 tuner
    Loudspeakers: Harbeth p3esr, Polk RT7
    Cables: Aural Harmony Sonnet Interconnect II, WireWorld Equinox 7 speaker,
    Black Cat silverstar 75 ohm digital, Signal Digital Power Cord, PS Audio Perfect Wave AC-3,
    Pangea SE14, Voltz supplied interconnects
    Optional: Arcam DV88 DVD/CD (HDCD) player, Polk SDS-400 speakers
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    vcwatkins wrote: »
    DSkip wrote: »
    vcwatkins wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    The reason is because if I audition a cable brand, I need to know that I can be comfortable affording their best units.... I don't want to audition a brand and not be able to buy their top cables. WW is just too expensive when you get up there, for example. Another reason why I'm not interested in hearing Nordost's Odin2 or Transparent's Opus line.

    Thanks for the review. Very interesting. My only experience with AZ is with interconnects and they're definitely keepers.

    I don't understand your audition criterion above though. Many stellar cable manufacturers have Ludicrous Price lines. Why eliminate from consideration all cables from some of the best manufacturers based solely on the price of their top level pricing? I can understand wanting to limit the universe of products to consider, but this method seems arbitrary and possibly even counterproductive.

    He posted his approach to this hobby in the Emma's Speakers thread. I respect Joey in that he knows what he is after and it isn't always the best sound he can afford. Admitting that to a rabid forum takes some serious gonads.

    My befuddlement has to do with his approach to selection for audition as per his stated criterion; not his overall approach to the hobby. I've just never found myself eliminating a whole brand based on the stratospheric price of its highest priced item; so I'm having trouble relating.

    BMW makes a $400k car which I can definitely not afford. But I don't disregard all BMW's when considering what to test drive. The same reasoning might be applied to Aston Martin and Mercedes if you get my drift.

    We all have our own methods and journeys and I respect that. I try to learn from others' experiences, which is the reason I am reading here. But in this case, I just wasn't able to figure out how I might benefit from this particular criterion. I'm interested in any further comments Joey might have.

    I guess the best way for me to describe my position is that of 2 things:

    1. I am very content with what I discovered. Each brand has a mantra or a philosophy. Currently, I find that I agree with AQ. Will that change? Maybe. But for now, it works exceedingly well in my system.

    2. I am tired. It takes a lot (I mean a LOT) of energy and finances to move a system like this. It's not easy to start wandering into another brand (say Transparent for example) and listen to one of their midline speaker wire and then not want to move up.... then up... then up... then up. I have reached the end of the road for AQ, I will likely move finances over to the XLR interconnects and power cords to complete the loom.

    So, to be concise.

    2 things.

    I am happy.

    I am tired.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    edited December 2016
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Dayyyummm, someone opened up the worm can!

    +1 heiney9 I too have pieces of music that I know and go back to when testing a piece of gear or a set up. Am I already jaded or skewed in one direction because I have prior knowledge and certain expectations from that particular piece? Maybe, but, I don't think so. I'm looking for how that particular piece of equipment handles that particular piece of music. I also believe blind testing can be beneficial, but, not the end all. Can be useful to confirm what I already believed to be true.

    I also tend to lean towards vcwatkins thinking in that I wouldn't eliminate brands based on TOTL pricing. If Joey is setting up a system and that is part of the criteria for him then godspeed. I, on the other hand, have to look for the sweet spot in a lineup to maximize my dollar. Never know where you're going to find that diamond in the rough.

    I guess the best way to put it for me is that for now, I'll stay put. When I am ready to audition other brands, then that means I am ready to talk the talk.

    I'm not in the mood to peruse and try other brands just to try it... if I'm trying it, I better be committed to going all the way.

    There's gotta be value in the piece. I landed a heck of a deal on the WEL. Had it not been for that, I would not actually have been able to afford it (sadly).

    The cheapest Odin2 is mid-$teens. The cheapest non Magnum Transparent Opus that I have seen is $17,000. As you can see, I am bound by limitations on the budget as well.

    I ain't doing that. Can I? Yes. Will I? No. Atleast not yet.

    And if this little exercise that was blessed upon me by @WagnerRC .. if this exercise has showed me anything... it's that the WELS are very special to me.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    Willow wrote: »
    @Joey_V are you planning on any other comparisons? Which cables are you using for the sf?

    I have comparisons of AZ matrix, silver (I think that's what it's called) and some Harmonic Tech XLR that I tried out extensively in the system.

    As for other speaker wire comparisons, I think I will do an indepth AQ Oak vs WEL.

    Also, I will try to do a comparison with my friend's Shunyata's, he has some top end ones.

    Beyond that, I think I'm going to rest a little while unless there are other offers for me to try out their cables. I would honestly love the opportunity to do a TOTL cable shoot out someday... Odin 2 vs WEL vs Transparent Opus vs others.

    But the logistics are very difficult.

    And it takes a LOT out of me... it's not easy to do it.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • vcwatkinsvcwatkins Posts: 1,861
    Gotcha, thanks for fleshing that out Joey.

    Happy and tired...those are good things, especially together. Finding what you like is what it's all about. With cables, once I found what I personally liked, it was nice to be able to take a respite from the reading and searching and buying and selling.

    Congrats on the new rig!

    Den: Rega RP6 * AT33PTGII * Budgie SUT * Jolida jd9 * Roon (Sonic Transporter) * PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Sunfire Signature II * PSAudio Power Plant 3 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2
    Office: Roon * Sonore UltraRendu (LPS-1, WW Plat7, Iso Regen, Lush) * ProJect Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * PSA Dectet * DH Labs Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354
    Beach: Music Hall MMF5.1se * Speed Box II * DL103r * Lounge Copla/LCRIII * W4S Sonos * Schiit Yggdrasil * Belles 20a Pre * First Watt F5 Clone * PSA Dectet * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,433
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Willow wrote: »
    @Joey_V are you planning on any other comparisons? Which cables are you using for the sf?

    I have comparisons of AZ matrix, silver (I think that's what it's called) and some Harmonic Tech XLR that I tried out extensively in the system.

    As for other speaker wire comparisons, I think I will do an indepth AQ Oak vs WEL.

    Also, I will try to do a comparison with my friend's Shunyata's, he has some top end ones.

    Beyond that, I think I'm going to rest a little while unless there are other offers for me to try out their cables. I would honestly love the opportunity to do a TOTL cable shoot out someday... Odin 2 vs WEL vs Transparent Opus vs others.

    But the logistics are very difficult.

    And it takes a LOT out of me... it's not easy to do it.

    That's why I could never do it right now. I don't have the time and energy to do it. At some point like you said you just call it quits. Could I do better, yes. But at which financial point . I'm not ready and willing to go there. I was a naysayer or a doubting Thomas for a long time. Now I believe but to a certain extent.
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Signal Dig Coax, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Marantz DV-4200 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Rotel RDV 1045 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,895
    Personally, I am a big cable fan, but I just can't grasp 5 figure prices. At best, there can only be a marginal improvement over lesser priced cables. Of course, you do get a lot of bling with higher priced cables.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,872
    I think resting where you are and enjoying what you've put together is absolutely a great thing. Enjoy
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,669
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Personally, I am a big cable fan, but I just can't grasp 5 figure prices. At best, there can only be a marginal improvement over lesser priced cables. Of course, you do get a lot of bling with higher priced cables.

    I like the 'transparency' of the wireworld offerings and their prices. The materials are what inflate the cost. Spend more, get better materials. I know I hear the difference between their OFC and OCC copper. I would like to think the same applies to their silver, which is what greatly exaggerates the cost of their top two products.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    edited December 2016
    DSkip wrote: »
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Personally, I am a big cable fan, but I just can't grasp 5 figure prices. At best, there can only be a marginal improvement over lesser priced cables. Of course, you do get a lot of bling with higher priced cables.

    I like the 'transparency' of the wireworld offerings and their prices. The materials are what inflate the cost. Spend more, get better materials. I know I hear the difference between their OFC and OCC copper. I would like to think the same applies to their silver, which is what greatly exaggerates the cost of their top two products.

    What is their top wire single biwire 8ft?

    And how much?

    @DSkip
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 7,545
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I would honestly love the opportunity to do a TOTL cable shoot out someday... Odin 2 vs WEL vs Transparent Opus vs others.

    *cough* and MIT *cough*
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    I'm glad a lot enjoyed the comparison... it's nice to shed some light into some cool gear.

    Btw, I just took a peek at Whatsbestforum... those guys are lunatics as well.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    edited December 2016
    nbrowser wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I'm glad a lot enjoyed the comparison... it's nice to shed some light into some cool gear.

    Btw, I just took a peek at Whatsbestforum... those guys are lunatics as well.

    Glad you've tried something better than the 12 gauge zip cord you've been using, I still remember the day I went from standard 12 gauge to Canare 4S11...a nice star quad arrangement of wire that I did an honest bi-wire with easily, I think I was shocked at the change...only prompted more upgrades...now I run MIT speaker cables, no complaints. One never knows until...they...gasp...TRY! You've tried and heard the difference, amazing eh?

    Yes, the difference has been solid. The WELS are the cherry on top. The system sounds very incomplete without it.

    I have zero regrets spending the money on the WELS.

    I feel that if there were no improvement or even if the improvements were subtle, I would have no problem getting rid of the cables as I didn't believe in them in the first place.

    If that's not a testament to cabling, I don't know what is. I mean - why would I subject myself to the mental anguish of spending money for a 1-2% difference? I can do so much with the money.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,433
    Joey_V wrote: »
    nbrowser wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I'm glad a lot enjoyed the comparison... it's nice to shed some light into some cool gear.

    Btw, I just took a peek at Whatsbestforum... those guys are lunatics as well.

    Glad you've tried something better than the 12 gauge zip cord you've been using, I still remember the day I went from standard 12 gauge to Canare 4S11...a nice star quad arrangement of wire that I did an honest bi-wire with easily, I think I was shocked at the change...only prompted more upgrades...now I run MIT speaker cables, no complaints. One never knows until...they...gasp...TRY! You've tried and heard the difference, amazing eh?

    Yes, the difference has been solid. The WELS are the cherry on top. The system sounds very incomplete without it.

    I have zero regrets spending the money on the WELS.

    I feel that if there were no improvement or even if the improvements were subtle, I would have no problem getting rid of the cables as I didn't believe in them in the first place.

    If that's not a testament to cabling, I don't know what is. I mean - why would I subject myself to the mental anguish of spending money for a 1-2% difference? I can do so much with the money.

    There you have it. That's what it comes down to.
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Signal Dig Coax, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Marantz DV-4200 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Rotel RDV 1045 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 2,872
    Everyone here is wrong and I'm right! Don't hate me because I'm right (or beautiful), hate yourself because you're not.

    I know you are but what am I!
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
    Dual SVS SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,669
    Wireworld's TOTL is an OCC solid silver that lists for $20k for an 8 footer. Might be a little off on price but it's right around that mark. I'm looking at moving to the second or third tier myself. Second tier is solid silver and third tier is OCC copper plated with silver.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    DSkip wrote: »
    Wireworld's TOTL is an OCC solid silver that lists for $20k for an 8 footer. Might be a little off on price but it's right around that mark. I'm looking at moving to the second or third tier myself. Second tier is solid silver and third tier is OCC copper plated with silver.

    What's occ
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,669
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,669
    Joey_V wrote: »

    I assumed as much. The difference between them is construction and geometry.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    DSkip wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »

    I assumed as much. The difference between them is construction and geometry.

    Yep.

    And pricing is freakin bloated as heck.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,433
    Guess the name turns me off makes me think of wally world. But I'd be game for trying some if I ever could.
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Signal Dig Coax, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Marantz DV-4200 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Rotel RDV 1045 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 6,905
    Willow wrote: »
    Guess the name turns me off makes me think of wally world. But I'd be game for trying some if I ever could.

    I'm sure it's good.

    Audioaficionado are drinking the ww koolaid so I'm sure it's tasty.

    Some day I'll try it.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs DAC2x and TSDX Transport -> Cary SLP-05 preamp -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2

    Old Gear:
    Speakers: BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source: Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification: Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased)
    Amplification: HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer: Infinity Entra2 sub -> SVS 25-31PC+ sub
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