Group Buy '16: Dreadnought Avel Lindberg 1000VA Isolation Transformers

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Comments

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    Thanks guys, see this is why I wanted a detailed write up. I had no idea we'd need these little things as I've never done one before. I don't happen to have some of this stuff around.

    Any other little tid bits you can remember
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,429
    edited January 2017
    Jesse's build thread was food for my planning. Picture shows the grouping of wires from the A-L transformer and the connectors Jesse (and I in his fashion) used to connect Xformer to Neutrik:

    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/142058/a-slightly-different-take-on-the-dreadnought/p1

    Connector Needs:
    1) Stainless Steel Bolt/washers/lockwashers/nut(s)--for mounting transformer to case. Needs to be non-magnetic stainless.
    2) Screws/washers/nuts for fastening Neutrik connectors to case & speaker terminal cups

    Am I missing anything? Get 'em all on a single Fastenal order for one-shipping price.

    Heck--here's a screenshot of *my* Fastenal order. I strongly recommend vetting this against other build threads to check on stuff I haven't thought about in 3 years--like "is that bolt the right size?" I suspect it is, but do some extra homework before ordering what I'm currently 85% sure is what I installed...

    Screen%20Shot%202017-01-26%20at%204.24.19%20PM_zpsmyuuxevf.png

    Looks like I ordered extra parts (as I tend to when shipping is greater cost than the parts themselves). If I can locate them, I'll tally them up and see about putting up a Karma.
    Post edited by agfrost on
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,429
    edited January 2017
    ...I can see that I ended up purchasing both 3/8" & 5/16" bolts to test for my preferred fit--I'll see if I can ascertain which diameter "the loser" ended up being.

    Edit: Caliper appears to show I've got a pair of 3/8" bolts that I did *NOT* use, which would indicate I went with the 5/16". Can any past Dreadnought builder confirm this?
    Post edited by agfrost on
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    The transformer doesn't come with a mounting bolt or mounting plates? I bought a used 800vA from a member here a few years ago. Never used it and sold it. It had a mounting bolt and a lower plate.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,429
    I'm laughing at how invested I am in this, since mine's been done for a couple years...

    I'm going to open mine up and get some answers....

    OK: I've taken a few (cellphone) photos which I hope are helpful.

    Here's just a shot of my opened case, freshly retrieved from in between my 2BTLs. Others have twisted the matched wires--looks like I did not.

    pu73vjo3p9lh.jpg

    A closeup of one of two wires-to-Neutrik connections. Colors are harder to make out on this pic, but (Blue/Violet) are paired as are (Brown/Grey). I crimped both into female connector (yellow plastic) and hit the connection with some Cardas QE solder to boot.

    yjfva62zekd2.jpg

    The other side. (Red/Yellow) and (Orange/Black). If you look at other builds you'll notice that I used different tabs on the Neutrik than suggested by Jesse (F1nut) and perhaps others--This is because of the choices I made on where to solder my wires into the 4-pole Neutrik NLT4FX-BAG connectors I used on my cables. You'll need to match *your* choices made in the cables. You need continuity from transformer wiring to Neutrik to SDA cable to Neutrik to your speaker's internal SDA connections (I'm assuming you're going Neutrik on both ends)--or no worky. With the female disconnects, it's easy to choose which tabs to connect inside the transformer case. You've clamped and/or soldered your SDA cables, so no choices there. If you're using 2-pole Neutrik, a bit less to ponder. The screw/nut you see is the hardware holding the Neutrik NL4MP-UC to the case. You have to drill two holes for each side.

    dk7tvsjhc3ma.jpg

    Just a quick shot to show the 'washer sandwich' I made. All stainless. Fender washer, lock washer, nut. On the outside of the case I threaded another fender washer on the bolt before starting it in the hole in the case that Larry thoughtfully predrilled. (He probably just bribed a robot laser to do it)

    s8ohtj27cocy.jpg

    The money shot, as it were: Proof that I used a 5/16" stainless bolt. No way is a 3/8" fitting in that hole (this transformer is potted through the middle).

    b7thx3w5ykoz.jpg

    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,598
    Brock, do you want one of us to come and hold your hand?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    F1nut wrote: »
    Brock, do you want one of us to come and hold your hand?

    No Jesse, but Jay's tutorial and pics have been extremely helpful. That's the kind of thing we do around here. Help each other out, make suggestions, share experiences, etc.

    Sorry I've never built one before and many here have. I didn't think asking for advice was going to be such a pain in your azz.

    Thanks Jay, you've been extremely helpful. Now I don't have to order all these parts separately as I run into issues.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,486
    Brock Autozone and Advanced auto have some very nice gold plated crimp on fast on's like Jay there used to attach wires to the Neutrik. go check them out
  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,429
    Please realize that I didn't do a single unique thing in my build--I just thought I'd transfer some of the practices I got from people who got in on group buy #1 (I was 2nd wave, the "scuba" one. Hmm. Wonder if he got in on this group buy?).

    Still worth your while to find/go through those older build threads (DK's, F1's). Most have used Dynamat in their cases. Still on the to-do list for me.

    Good job on all of this GB's participants: No one got banned this time!
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • monepolk
    monepolk Posts: 1,143
    Hey I appreciate all the info that you've provide. Thanks.
  • Hey @heiney9 isn't the ONLY one benefitting from all of this. He's just the one asking the questions. I've never done this before either and obviously we aren't alone in this.
  • DSkip wrote: »
    Hey @heiney9 isn't the ONLY one benefitting from all of this. He's just the one asking the questions. I've never done this before either and obviously we aren't alone in this.

    Maybe Rick can pull one of his geetars out and we can all sing kumbaya while we hold hands. o:)

    Yippeekyay muthaf@$%&#:!!!! :D;)
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    edited January 2017
    Check out Performance Audio

    http://www.performanceaudio.com/

    They have all the Neutrik connectors and they have a very good price on Canare 4S11 cable if you haven't decided on what cabling to use with your Dreadnought. I have used Canare before and currently use it in my office rig. It's damn good stuff and many manufacturer's, whom I won't mention, use this exact cable and put sheathing over it w/their own name on it and mark it up 10-20 times.

    $49 or more spent = free shipping. I have bought from them before and they are solid.

    Just another alternative.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,486
    edited January 2017
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Check out Performance Audio

    http://www.performanceaudio.com/

    H9

    Thats a great price Brock. I have used Have inc before as they also are one of the few that carry black and theirs is 1.38per foot.
    Thanks bookmarked your site

    http://store.haveinc.com/p-49380-canare-4s11-starquad-speaker-cable-14-awg-cut.aspx

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    Just an FYI,

    Parts Express carries the Gold, insolated disconnects for the lugs on the Neutrik female connectors on the tranny case.

    http://www.parts-express.com/gold-12-10-awg-0187-female-disconnect-5-pair--095-808

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • Malbec
    Malbec Posts: 553
    I believe those disconnects are too small if you are going with the chassis connectors jay linked in his post (NL4MP-UC). They are .250" 1/4" tab.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,486
    Malbec wrote: »
    I believe those disconnects are too small if you are going with the chassis connectors jay linked in his post (NL4MP-UC). They are .250" 1/4" tab.

    Although not insulated the car place I'm refering to i believe are 6-8 pak for a lot less. I used them to wire up my SDA's when i did the xo.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,598
    Too small Brock.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,762
    F1nut wrote: »
    Too small Brock.

    That's what she said.. o:)
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,510
    Madisound has gold plated fastons in several sizes including 1/4".
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    edited January 2017
    I was trying to link to Parts Express since they have everything in one vendor regarding the Neutrik stuff. The idea is to minimize shipping costs from multiple vendors.

    Too small Brock.

    The Gold fasten ons I linked to will fit these. Unless I'm reading it wrong?

    http://www.performanceaudio.com/item/neutrik-nl4mp-4-pole-speakon-panel-mount-connector/2798/

    4 pole chassis connector, black D-size flange, countersunk thru holes, 3/16" flat tabs

    Regardless they make other sizes depending on what you go with.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,598
    That's not the NLT4FX-BAG, which takes .250 fastons.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • edpot1
    edpot1 Posts: 4
    edited January 2017
    How does this look for a parts list? I'm leaving out the cables

    Neutrik Connectors on Case
    2x Neutrik Spekon Female Connector (Neutrik NL4MP-UC)
    2x Neutrik D-Size Sealing Gaskets (Neutrik SCDP-0)
    4x 1/4" 12-10 AWG Female Disconnect (NTE 76-FIFD12-250)
    4x M3-0.5 x 16mm Stainless Steel Machine Screw (Fastenal #XM2510016A20000)
    4x M3 DIN A4 Stainless Steel Split Lock Washer (Fastenal #ML6330000A40000)
    4x M3-0.5 Stainless Steel A4 Hex Nut (Fastenal #MN2510000A40000)

    Mounting Transformer to Case
    1x 5/16"-18 x 3-1/2" Stainless Steel Tap Bolt (Fastenal #71185)
    2x 5/16" x 1.250" Stainless Steel Fender Washer (Fastenal #0172789)
    1x 5/16" Stainless Steel Medium Split Lock Washer (Fastenal #71065)
    1x 5/16"-18 Stainless Steel Hex Nuts (Fastenal #70711)

    Thanks heiney9 for asking the tough questions
    Post edited by edpot1 on
  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,429
    I see you're only considering the case at this time, but remember you're installing Speakons *four* times (assuming you're doing so on the speakers as well).

    So Neutrik parts, including hardware would be doubled if you plan to use Neutrik NL4MP-UC also on the speakers.
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    edited January 2017
    Much appreciated edpot1. $3.41 in fasteners plus $9.61 in shipping seems kind of silly. I will probably go to my local hardware store to get the fasteners. Thanks for including the dimensions and not just the Fastenal part number.

    Thanks again Jay for sharing.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,598
    I will probably go to my local hardware store to get the fasteners.

    Good luck with that.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    edited January 2017
    They are just down the street and have a separate wing dedicated to fasteners. I have zero doubt I can find what I need now that I have an idea of what I'm working with.

    Why so combative and negative in this thread?

    H9

    P.s. Also there is a Fastenal branch minutes from work, but they don't stock all the stuff listed.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,598
    I don't know Brock, for a measly $9.61 you get exactly what you need delivered to your door instead of wasting time at the store. Home Depot, Lowe's and Ace all have specialty hardware sections, but will not have all the stainless steel hardware required and what they might have will cost a lot more.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Moose68Bash
    Moose68Bash Posts: 3,843
    edited January 2017
    My experience has been very much like @F1nut 's.

    I have two very good hardware/lumber yards near me -- one is Ace Hardware, the other True Value. They have very good fastener sections, and one of them has even cut down cap screws for me when they do not have the exact length that I need.

    However, I've now begun to order what I need online for specialty products. I get exactly what I want, usually with free shipping, and the price is usually less or equal to those of the hardware stores -- without the cost in driving time and expense.

    Lowe's and Home Depot never have everything that I need, except for the most quotidian items.
    Post edited by Moose68Bash on
    Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.

    Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.

  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,183
    F1nut wrote: »
    I don't know Brock, for a measly $9.61 you get exactly what you need delivered to your door instead of wasting time at the store. Home Depot, Lowe's and Ace all have specialty hardware sections, but will not have all the stainless steel hardware required and what they might have will cost a lot more.

    Yeah, $10 isn't much, but I think for $2.50 worth of goods that weighs less than a pound. $10 is a bit much. I realize it's not all retailers fault. FedEx and UPS are costly shippers.

    FTR, our local hardware store has been in business for over 90 years and is locally owned not a national chain, and I happen to live in what was the screw and fastener capital of the US at one time not that long ago. Lots of surplus availability locally for a long time.

    I'll try them first.

    H9

    P.s. that's $10 less I can spend on tubes! :D



    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!