Is Apple making a big mistake....

kevhed72

With their refusal to unlock an iPhone....they may regret this some day, especially considering their taxes shelters and worker treatment issues in the past. As far as unlocking the iPhone....I don't fully understand why / why not? And as I have strayed into the political side of things myself in the past, just the facts here please....

xsmi

We all know they say that its because if they let the feds in, the hackers will come in too. I believe if the hackers REALLY wanted in, they'd be in. However, I heard something interesting this week that I had not thought of before. Apple is a multi national company doing business all over the world. If they cave and let our government in, who's to say those other governments will not want in as well? I think we can all agree that the info the FBI wants is for investigational purposes only (atlas we hope). But what about China and other countries that I'm sure will come knocking at the door? Part of me wants them to do it, the other part says, screw them, hire a 16yo kid to break into the phone for them.

dromunds

Did they get a search warrant? I don't know the facts, but this was a freaking terrorist incident.

txcoastal1

Not really Political but constitutional
But further reading as the media has exploited and spun this into a worse scenario than it is actually.

The FBI wanted the software to unlock the phones and Apple refused, now FBI is requesting Apple to just unlock the phone and keep and/or destroy the hacking software.

Do I think the Feds/Gov't should "HAVE" the software....NO, they will use, lose or whatever as they are careless and unscrupulous at times.

Do I think that they need to unlock "THAT" phone, "Yes"

Any request needs to be strictly reviewed on a case by case basis not to infringe on our constitutional rights.

xsmi

Yes. They did get a search warrant.

rpf65

I totally agree with Apples position on this matter. The information contained in their phones is some of the most secure on the planet. To force them to change the security encryption would be the same as telling them you are not allowed to secure anybody's private information as well as you currently are. The government doesn't allow that many secrets for anybody, other than some person or department involved with government.

Just my personal opinion, but I just think the law enforcement/intelligence agencies should quit trying to blame third parties because the don't have the information that politicians want the instant they want it. Not blaming law enforcement/intelligence agencies for dropping the ball here. Blaming the powers that be for hampering the process of investigation from the very beginning.

This issue could be totally avoided if idiots in charge would be forced to learn logic and have a little common sense smacked into them.

xsmi

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/02/19/apple-id-linked-to-terrorists-iphone-5c-was-changed-while-in-government-hands-apple-says-


This concerns me though

Dennis Gardner

It is easy.......$1Million to the first hacker to unlock this phone and bonus contract there after for like jobs.

kevhed72

So if Apple unlocks this one phone with a tool or key it needs to create.....and keeps the tool itself....I am trying to wrap my head around how this tool can someday make all iPhones, in theory, unsecure. As far as foreign governments go....I see that as an apples and oranges argument. For gods sake...the Chineese are continuously stealing out intellectual property and counterfeiting our goods. Some foreign government is going to compel Apple to unlock a phone....doubt it. Apple may just viewing this whole scenario in terms of dollars, which corporations tend to do.

BlueFox

I suspect they are making a publicity stunt. They will eventually open the phone, but proclaim how valiantly they tried to resist doing it.

motorhead43026

Well, if they do it for the US the Russians and the Chinese will expect the same. Then it cascades from there.

nooshinjohn

The government has offered to let Apple keep the software needed under the company's control and not turn it over to the Feds. If that is the case, then I want to know who else these terrorists were speaking to.

rpf65

A lot of things seem to be left out of the story in quite a few places.

First, this isn't a phone owned by the terrorist. It's owned by his employer, San Bernadino County. Probably a long shot any game changing info there at all.

Second, it was found in a car, parked in the house they lived, soon after the incident took place. Why wait months to ask for help accessing the information?

The government is using some writ, whatever that is, to compell Apple to write code that Apple says doesn't exist. Congress has already declined to vote on forcing software companies to create back doors.

Fourth, Apple has already given them all information, which the employer had automatically sent to cloud storage, from about 2 weeks before the incident took place.

Finally, Apple could have forced a cloud update, if law enforcement hadn't tried to access the phone before contacting Apple. Unauthorized attempted access locks that feature down also.

Again I'm still supporting Apple on this one.

BDT

While I get the whole need to hack this one phone....I am NOT ok with just turning over to the US govt a way to defeat any ios....the gov't keep that safe and secret? The US gov't couldn't reliably keep Mother Theresa from catching the clap.

BDT

Mikey081057

Apple's sales are down and they are enjoying the publicity...If the court decides that they need to do it, then they will need to comply or be fined or imprisoned...Hilarious how there is so much support for terrorists in our country...Explains alot. I am sure there is an independent ethical hacker who can do this and once that is done, then Apples encryption will really be compromised and all of their noise will have been for nothing unless they just want the publicity of how they are bucking the government.

I agree that this gov't is the keystone cops and they shouldn't be trusted with securing any data. That said Apple should if they can turn over the data on that device.

gimpod

Just for all you Apple lovers,

Apple IS a big mistake!





Just giving all you Apple lovers a hard time because it just so much fun to watch you Apple guys go nuts. JK.

On a serious note I think all this so called security hard/software is a big waste of time, money and effort. If someone really wants the data or access they will find a way. Remember these days the only thing I would consider private and secure are your own thoughts, as far as I know no one has figured out how to read your mind but you can rest assured that someone somewhere is working on it.

tonyb

gimpod wrote: »

Just for all you Apple lovers,

Apple IS a big mistake!





Just giving all you Apple lovers a hard time because it just so much fun to watch you Apple guys go nuts. JK.

On a serious note I think all this so called security hard/software is a big waste of time, money and effort. If someone really wants the data or access they will find a way. Remember these days the only thing I would consider private and secure are your own thoughts, as far as I know no one has figured out how to read your mind but you can rest assured that someone somewhere is working on it.

Nice to see ya Tony.

Apple ?

Eh, the jist of it is, as far as my understanding goes, lets say the phone is a safe. The government wants the keys to that safe, and every safe made in the future. That would be a hard no in my book. If they want apple to unlock that one phone, privately, and pass that info back to them, cool, and I think apple agreed to that.

If they gave the keys to the government, that would seriously diminish their products worth....so apple says anyway and one which I may agree. But....lets turn around that argument. How many other products has seen diminished worth because of government actions ? Think about that....doesn't make it right though. Apple on one hand is crying about it's customers privacy, while invading them themselves and data mining everyone. Whats good for the goose ?

I dunno , to me....we should all have a semblance of privacy in our homes and papers, a phone being such in my book. Does that mean some info will go unretrieved ? Yeah, but hey....if you don't let them in the door in the first place you wouldn't need a lot of this stuff....spend the money on tracking, listening, or resources. A court ordered warrant to open one phone....yeah ok, but not handing over the keys to every safe, that's wrong.

xsmi

tonyb wrote: »

gimpod wrote: »

Just for all you Apple lovers,

Apple IS a big mistake!





Just giving all you Apple lovers a hard time because it just so much fun to watch you Apple guys go nuts. JK.

On a serious note I think all this so called security hard/software is a big waste of time, money and effort. If someone really wants the data or access they will find a way. Remember these days the only thing I would consider private and secure are your own thoughts, as far as I know no one has figured out how to read your mind but you can rest assured that someone somewhere is working on it.

Nice to see ya Tony.

Apple ?

Eh, the jist of it is, as far as my understanding goes, lets say the phone is a safe. The government wants the keys to that safe, and every safe made in the future. That would be a hard no in my book. If they want apple to unlock that one phone, privately, and pass that info back to them, cool, and I think apple agreed to that.

If they gave the keys to the government, that would seriously diminish their products worth....so apple says anyway and one which I may agree. But....lets turn around that argument. How many other products has seen diminished worth because of government actions ? Think about that....doesn't make it right though. Apple on one hand is crying about it's customers privacy, while invading them themselves and data mining everyone. Whats good for the goose ?

I dunno , to me....we should all have a semblance of privacy in our homes and papers, a phone being such in my book. Does that mean some info will go unretrieved ? Yeah, but hey....if you don't let them in the door in the first place you wouldn't need a lot of this stuff....spend the money on tracking, listening, or resources. A court ordered warrant to open one phone....yeah ok, but not handing over the keys to every safe, that's wrong.

You were right until you got to that part. Apple DOES NOT mine their customer's data for themselves which is why the encryption key for all of the user's data is on the device.That's why the Feds are having such a hard time getting into this phone.

I have heard that Apple has already turned over the data from the phone's iCloud backups. They claim, they themselves cannot even see the data they turned over. I believe the the FBI is using this case to get a leg up on encryption. Hey we have this HORRIBLE terrorist case and bad bad Apple won't do their part to help us crack the case.

tonyb

I find that hard to believe pal, Apple knows more than they let on. Todays world is all about information, all sorts of it, and that's worth money.

Government is throwing around the "National Security" thing as a way to infringe, not only on Apple but everything under the sun. Even talked about getting fat people classified as a national security risk if memory serves.

There are other ways to fight terrorism without infringing on rights. From where I sit, they opened a can of worms and have neither the inclination or will power to shut it. Leaving them only one option, total control over the populations privacy as in none.

recoveryone

Having had this incident occur in my backyard and my law enforcement and military background I have a front row seat on the meaning of what has and is happening.

Just like 9/11 several events are new to our law enforcement community, these people were very organized and had been trained to cover their tracks. The few slip ups; 1. old friend that punked out 2. poor bomb making are the only clues/trail they left behind. From a corporate stand point I understand Apples position, but what is more at stake from my opinion is the risk to not only our country but many others that they know now using Apple phones is the best method to keep their communications secure.

Nightfall

The FBI confirmed it screwed up and reset the San Bernardino shooter's iCloud password

http://www.techinsider.io/fbi-confirms-shooters-icloud-password-reset-2016-2

tonyb

Like I said, if you don't let them in the door in the first place, scrutinize the ones you do better, get on social media's rear end about allowing these scum to recruit here and spread their hate, then you wouldn't have a need to throw everyones privacy out the window for a few bad apples.

Sure, law enforcement definitely has a tougher job in todays world, but it all starts at the door.....trails into our education system and social media....and ends with do nothing politicians.

xsmi

Oops...

gimpod

tonyb wrote: »

Nice to see ya Tony.

Thanks, I've been around lurking for the most part.

tonyb wrote: »

I dunno , to me....we should all have a semblance of privacy in our homes and papers, a phone being such in my book. Does that mean some info will go unretrieved ? Yeah, but hey....if you don't let them in the door in the first place you wouldn't need a lot of this stuff....spend the money on tracking, listening, or resources. A court ordered warrant to open one phone....yeah ok, but not handing over the keys to every safe, that's wrong.

I agree except for the phone, The way I look at it if your putting info out into the ether for all to see or hear you have no expectation of privacy, remember party lines and with most phones being cell or internet you can expect even less privacy.

xsmi wrote: »

You were right until you got to that part. Apple DOES NOT mine their customer's data for themselves which is why the encryption key for all of the user's data is on the device.

I don't believe this for a second ALL corporations data mine there customer's, They mainly use the info to better target there products and customer's, some even sell that info for a tidy profit, And you actually believe Apple is the exception. I'm sure they would love for all there customer's to believe it.

And who creates that encryption key ? Apple does.

sucks2beme

The rule here is- don't give the tool out. If the FBI has a warrant,
Then unlock it and hand it over to the FBI. Rule of law- a crime was committed.
They get a warrant, they search. End of story. They have no right to the tool.

tonyb

Tony, I hear ya bro.....but back in the day with party lines, that was because of the limits of technology during those times. It wasn't intentional as technology has enabled many to do today. You can make the argument that digital has replaced paper, and everyone has a right to privacy in their papers. Maybe a re visit to the Bill of Rights is in order.

Right.....get warrant, Apple opens it and hands it back, zero right to the tool. The same process should apply for listening in. Get a warrant, for a single person, to listen in on their conversations, not a blank check to listen to anyone they want.

I get the fact that technology advances has given the criminal element an upper hand and law enforcement is somewhat held back by that pesky constitution. However to preserve our rights, we need to do more to keep the criminal elements out, the hate out, the ability to recruit out, scrutinize to a bigger degree.

Think about your home, who's in charge of the security of that home ? You ? Do you let criminals in the door then deal with them or do you attempt to secure your home to keep them out in the first place. Who is in charge of the security of our nation ? We going to keep letting them in the door and then deal with them ? No, you can't keep everyone of them out or prevent the ones that have mental problems, but you can do other things to lesson the threat.

The FBI doesn't have a leg to stand on by asking for the tool, and they know it. That's why now they are trying to shame apple into handing it over by saying "The victims families deserve to see whats on that phone". Really ?? How about the victims families of your crimes ?

Though now, with the Supreme Court evenly split, they may be pushing to get this case before them. Which is why I think they are being so adamant about getting their hands on the tool rather than just letting apple open one phone.

maximillian

From what I read, there is no tool. The FBI wants a special iOS version that weakens security. I think there are a few different ways it wants it weakened and Apple is refusing to all of them. It's not a simply one purpose tool. There is even a debate of whether or not some of the "tweaks" are backdoors. For example, one of the changes is to prevent the phone from resetting after 10 tries. This way, the FBI can brute-force the passcode without fear of losing the data. Is this a backdoor? What if the firmware change is only tied to one serial number (the device in question)? What if the firmware never leaves Apple's doors? This isn't a simple "give the tool out or not". The FBI's request may seem reasonable at first glance, but there are deep ramifications in what approach is taken. For example, if Apple allows this one seemingly simple modification, what will the FBI want next or perhaps other governments may want special versions too.

xsmi

gimpod wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Nice to see ya Tony.[/

xsmi wrote: »

You were right until you got to that part. Apple DOES NOT mine their customer's data for themselves which is why the encryption key for all of the user's data is on the device.

I don't believe this for a second ALL corporations data mine there customer's, They mainly use the info to better target there products and customer's, some even sell that info for a tidy profit, And you actually believe Apple is the exception. I'm sure they would love for all there customer's to believe it.

And who creates that encryption key ? Apple does.

I beg to differ. Nothing in my dealings with Apple tells me otherwise. I still get emails from them telling me about special deals on a new Mac and I just bought one for Christmas. I get emails about iPhones and I just bought 2 of those in September and October.

Do you ever notice how if you search for something in the App Store, you leave it come back in and the recommendations are STILL not tailored to you? Because they don't mine your data.

Do a Google search or search for something on Amazon, then watch the boarders of your pages. THAT'S data mining at its finest.

Mikey081057

What bearing does the fact that this was not a personal phone but one that is owned and administered by the local San Bernadino gov. What policy did the terrorist/user sign? The local gov should have subscribed to a MMS (mobile management system) which would have ultimately given them control over their property and the data which is technically their property as well. Had San Bernadino had this admin tool this data would be in the FBI's hands already.

The notion that terrorists can use gov't property for terrorist activities and not a dang thing can be done about it or we can argue it for months while potential information that could save innocent lives is beyond ridiculous.

Lots of lessons to be learned here. But I will stand with my common theme... Gov't can eff up a free lunch.

Mikey081057

xsmi wrote: »

gimpod wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Nice to see ya Tony.[/

xsmi wrote: »

You were right until you got to that part. Apple DOES NOT mine their customer's data for themselves which is why the encryption key for all of the user's data is on the device.

I don't believe this for a second ALL corporations data mine there customer's, They mainly use the info to better target there products and customer's, some even sell that info for a tidy profit, And you actually believe Apple is the exception. I'm sure they would love for all there customer's to believe it.

And who creates that encryption key ? Apple does.

I beg to differ. Nothing in my dealings with Apple tells me otherwise. I still get emails from them telling me about special deals on a new Mac and I just bought one for Christmas. I get emails about iPhones and I just bought 2 of those in September and October.

Do you ever notice how if you search for something in the App Store, you leave it come back in and the recommendations are STILL not tailored to you? Because they don't mine your data.

Do a Google search or search for something on Amazon, then watch the boarders of your pages. THAT'S data mining at its finest.

And somewhere in the agreements that you have clicked on lets them do it... Have you ever read a software license agreement.

tonyb

Mikey081057 wrote: »

.. Gov't can eff up a free lunch.

LOL....and they do too. Free lunch programs at schools.

The Phone in question belonged to the SB county....a government entity. The employee should have never had the ability to lock it. That option should have remained with the county, not the employee. Once again, a government screw up begs for someone else to bear the brunt.

My wife's company used to give them a stipend for using their personal phones for work. Then they went to the Iphones and required everyones passwords to not only the phones but social media accounts as well. They have every right to ask since it is their phone, but not the additional info. They wanted people to use their phone for both company business and private, so they could have access to both. Hell to the no, so the wife has to carry 2 phones.

Point being, the owner of the phone has every right to access the information. The bad guy in this case, did not own the phone, and the owner allowed him to lock in his information. Now, maybe that was the whole point, being a government employee. Lets face it, you think politicians want their I-phones easily accessible ? Does government not value it's privacy ? We shouldn't though ?

Apple has every right to hold the keys, but under a court order, they should still be held to cooperate and open that one phone without having to hand over the keys to every phone. Sounds reasonable to me....you ? That way, Apple's product retains it's rep and value, no terrorist info goes unseen, and privacy rights remain intact. A win all around for everyone in my book.