New Andrew Jones Concentric Speakers

deronb1

Good point Cnh, all speakers can benefit from more clean power, but the first thing that struck me at this price point is that someone is going to try to drive the crap out of these with a $ 200.00 Sony that is not rated for 4 ohm use. Gonna fry the speakers, amp, or both

cnh

deronb1 wrote: »

Good point Cnh, all speakers can benefit from more clean power, but the first thing that struck me at this price point is that someone is going to try to drive the crap out of these with a $ 200.00 Sony that is not rated for 4 ohm use. Gonna fry the speakers, amp, or both

Unfortunately, that is probably true! Alas! You try to create a value-laden speaker and you can't even get people to buy a moderately priced NAD integrated, etc. to drive them! Or maybe one of Skip's Ampino or, better yet, Meneutto models?

mhardy6647

cnh wrote: »

Not sure if they "need" a hi-end amp. But they sound better with one. But, then again, don't most speakers sound better in this way.

I mean, I have a set of M-70 towers in my HT and they're OK with a good AVR, but slap a quality 200+watt/2 amp on them and they make a quantum leap to the next orbital plane (yeah, undergrad Chem., still a few brain cells left from the '70s, lol). s, p, d, f, g...

Admittedly, "useless" knowledge for my current field! And probably so "dated" at this point that most H.S. chemistry students know this low level physics of chemistry. You guys remember that, the attempt to ALWAYS reduce one science to a more fundamental one. Oh, perhaps that's still the goal for some scientists. The ABSOLUTE REDUCTION!

There he goes again! YET ANOTHER digression! F'n cnh can't stay on topic!

I'd opine that high end isn't the issue per se; it's the need for high power. Those two often correlate, but not always.

There are plenty of "high end" but low powered amplifiers; they won't help the ELACs much.

There are also many low end, high powered amplifiers -- generally not purpose-built for home use, but plenty are thus employed.
As a not particularly random example ('cause I've been looking at these):

http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/product_families/xls-drivecore-2-series



s, p, d, f orbitals -- indeed :-P

cnh

Yeah! Power is the issue for such speakers. And those crown amps have gotten some decent press. One of our members, Face, used three similar crowns to tri-amp his monster speakers with, according to him, good results!

Where is Mike, BTW?

mhardy6647

Oh, speaking of s,p,d,f... how 'bout SPQR? ;- )

rooftop59

cnh wrote: »

Not sure if they "need" a hi-end amp. But they sound better with one. But, then again, don't most speakers sound better in this way.

I mean, I have a set of M-70 towers in my HT and they're OK with a good AVR, but slap a quality 200+watt/2 amp on them and they make a quantum leap to the next orbital plane

Yes, granted, but teh M70s are the exception to that lineup. The M30s won't benefit from mo better power (at least not much, they just ain't great speakers). Most speakers you purchase from Best Buy will only very modestly benefit from a significant increase in the electronics being used. The AJ "budget speaks" seem to be the exception, the old pios also benefitted from better power.

The pios had a street price of about $120 a pair. you expect a college kid picking those up to pair them with a $500 integrated and some entry level MIT speakers on his $300 budget lol??? Granted, the Elacs are a little more expensive, but the same principle comes into play just a little further down the economic road...

halo

So, good polkies, what would you recommend to power these ELAC Uni-Fi speakers? I'd like to stay on a budget and I have no problem buying used equipment.

This reminds me of the Lsi line of speakers that Polk put out. They were sold at circuit city, Fry's, etc. and, typically, these stores didn't carry amplifiers integrateds that could drive a 4 ohm load.

deronb1

How bout a beefier Onk from A4L. Prob around 5 bills.

halo

deronb1 wrote: »

How bout a beefier Onk from A4L. Prob around 5 bills.

An AVR? I don't think it would have the gusto. I've had some issues with A4L purchases as of late.

deronb1

Ah. Prob have to go seperates then. Adcom seems to be lowest price of older powerful gear.

halo

deronb1 wrote: »

Ah. Prob have to go seperates then. Adcom seems to be lowest price of older powerful gear.

Thanks for the suggestion. Doesn't have to be "old." Adcom seemed old to me when I was still active on the forum back in '08! lol.

Emlyn

halo wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion. Doesn't have to be "old." Adcom seemed old to me when I was still active on the forum back in '08! lol.

What system are you planning on using the speakers in? The NR1403 has preouts for the front left and right, I think. A used Parasound A23 would be my choice because it is neutral and versatile with many different kinds of speaker.

halo

Emlyn wrote: »

halo wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion. Doesn't have to be "old." Adcom seemed old to me when I was still active on the forum back in '08! lol.

What system are you planning on using the speakers in? The NR1403 has preouts for the front left and right, I think. A used Parasound A23 would be my choice because it is neutral and versatile with many different kinds of speaker.

The Uni-Fi UB5 will likely be replacing the Energy RC70 towers and the Uni-Fi UC5 will probably replace the Energy RC-LCR at the center position (I may keep the RC10 + RC-LCR for movies and use the UB5 strictly for music and forget about the UC5 altogether). On the other hand, the UB5 may pull double duty for music and movies, just like the RC70 speakers are doing now.

I do like the idea of an A23 to power the UB5 speakers connected to the pre-outs on the NR1402. I had an A23 years ago and I liked it quite a bit but, the speakers I went with back then needed a much more powerful amplifier capable of quick switches in resistance down to 1 ohm (Electrostatic Hybrid speakers).

StevieB

FWIW Andrew Jones addresses the 4 ohm specs at #176 in the link F1nut posted.

OldSchoolPolk

It would be interesting to see what Andrew and his team can do with the Elac Integrated amp. 100 watts of BASH power (never seen that in an integrated?) w/ digital and analog inputs, bass management, etc @ $500.

I know its not the typical recommendation, but again it's Andrew freaking Jones. When have you not been pleasantly surprised at anything he's designed?

His twin brother, Owen, is an engineer at Benchmark and was part of the team that developed their AHB2 amp. Maybe they traded notes over a pint.

halo

StevieB wrote: »

FWIW Andrew Jones addresses the 4 ohm specs at #176 in the link F1nut posted.

When I clicked on the link, it didn't take me to OP in AVS. So, here is what it says:

AndrewJ wrote: »

"Just a note about the concerns over speaker impedance:
I rate them as 4 ohms because I follow the accepted standards for rating impedance, meaning that if a speaker is rated at 8 ohms for example, its minimum impedance should not fall below 80% of that, ie 6.4 ohms in this example.
For a 4 ohm speaker, that would be 3.2 ohms.
Now the standard makes no mention of what frequency that minimum impedance should occur, or over how wide a range.
Suppose the impedance dips low at just one very narrow frequency range. This is not likely to cause the amplifier much of a problem, as statistically there will not be much power delivered by a music source over such a narrow range.
Conversely, if the minimum impedance is maintained over a wide frequency range then there will be much higher power demands from the amplifier.
So, as usual, the specs are very limited in what they tell the casual observer about the capabilities of a given amplifier to match with a given loudspeaker. Saying that because it's a four ohm speaker it by default will not work with budget amplifiers is just plain wrong.
Now it is also the case that some manufacturers don't follow the standard rating system. They state a value for rated impedance, but the minimum value falls well below the 80% value. This is what gives the impedance rating a bad name, similar to the situation with amplifier power!
So, having said all of that, my 4 ohm rating is based on the value reaching the minimum over a very narrow frequency range, and being well above that over most of the frequency range, so I don't expect any real problems with relatively budget amplifiers.

Andrew"

Now, what does Andrew consider a "relatively budget amplifier" to be?

mhardy6647

Well -- he's responsible for 200 dollar loudspeakers, so "relatively budget" to him probably doesn't equate to "Bentley instead of Rolls-Royce" ;-)

I like his level-headed, no nonsense comments on impedance. One of my pet peeves is folks who get hung up on nominal impedance, which is a single number trying to represent a very complex characteristic of a reactive amplifier load! I like to see the impedance and phase plots for a loudspeaker, which - I think - helps give us a real world idea of how amplifier friendly or amp-hostile a given loudspeaker actually is!

Of course, my pet peeve extends smoothly to another useless/meaningless single number -- DAMPING FACTOR -- which, again, tries to represent something really complex with one number... but that's another rant for another day.

HEY! YOU PUNK KIDS! GET OFFA MY LAWN!

:-p

cnh

What's the budget for the amp, Halo? It already sounds like you've had experience with some of the players in the mid-fi scene-been there done that!

If it were me, I'd power the towers with a Parasound A21, which should have NO problem driving them! There are, of course, even better and more expensive options. But this is about as far as my wallet can go!

madmax

I'd think one of the Odyssey Khartago stereo amps would mate pretty nicely. http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-khartago-stereo.html

larlane

Are you Bill the Cat? THBFFT?

halo

madmax wrote: »

I'd think one of the Odyssey Khartago stereo amps would mate pretty nicely. http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-khartago-stereo.html

I was thinking of contacting Peter McAllister...NOT.

Honestly, I will probably go with an old Adcom or Parasound

Sorry about derailing the thread. I should probably start a different one about amp choices.

My initial post was relevant in posting the specs and information that these are available for preorder.

@cnh - I am not going with the towers, too much speaker for my apartment

madmax

halo wrote: »

madmax wrote: »

I'd think one of the Odyssey Khartago stereo amps would mate pretty nicely. http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-khartago-stereo.html

I was thinking of contacting Peter McAllister...NOT.

Please tell me the Odyssey is not in the same class!

halo

lol. The Odyssey is a solid state amp Klaus? builds them. I remember that Sid the kid VMXRSTYLER... bought one or two of them.

McAllister is in a catagory all by himself. Don't pay attention to what your customer wants at all

Polkie2009

madmax wrote: »

I'd think one of the Odyssey Khartago stereo amps would mate pretty nicely. http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-khartago-stereo.html

Looking at the specs on this amp, very substantial amp section ,can handle low ohms load. It looks well built and clean.

madmax

I had been looking at it for powering the ELAC B6 I got recently.

halo

It's unfortunate that I sold my Sanders Sound Systems ESL amplifier.

halo

madmax wrote: »

I had been looking at it for powering the ELAC B6 I got recently.

What are you using to drive them right now?

cvc

When I saw Andrew Jones demo these speakers last May at the THE Show Newport he was using a Bell Canto integrated amp, a laptop with basic audioquest cables.. He used real world gear.. He even used a kitchen cutting board as isolation for the amp/laptop and just speaker stands from amazon that he purchased.. He was a great guy to talk to and those speakers are amazing for the price..

But just go to Elac for any questions regarding power.. They'll answer everything to help you.. I believe one of the Elac personnel posts frequently on the Steve Hoffman forum or the avs forum.. Contact them!

nguyendot

I'm interesting in hearing these, and still need to get a pair of his debut series. I do wish they chose a different name. When I hear UniFi - it reminds me of Ubiquiti's terrible prosumer wifi.

halo

cvc wrote: »

When I saw Andrew Jones demo these speakers last May at the THE Show Newport he was using a Bell Canto integrated amp, a laptop with basic audioquest cables.. He used real world gear.. He even used a kitchen cutting board as isolation for the amp/laptop and just speaker stands from amazon that he purchased.. He was a great guy to talk to and those speakers are amazing for the price..

But just go to Elac for any questions regarding power.. They'll answer everything to help you.. I believe one of the Elac personnel posts frequently on the Steve Hoffman forum or the avs forum.. Contact them!

Outstanding! Thanks for the information