Buying and Selling Rules - Discuss

EndersShadow

I'm starting this thread up to have a CIVIL discussion on the existing buying and selling rules. It seems the right time to discuss them as there have been some differing opinions on the subject.

This thread is to contain those opinions. Below are the rules posted in their entirety. I will not post my opinion in this initial post, but in a subsequent one.

Additionally it would be nice to hear from @Kenneth Swauger if there is any way to track sales similar to the Member Sales Rating thread which has gone somewhat by the wayside.

Before buying or selling anything on this forum, please see the guidelines and rules for replying, found here:

Buying and Selling Guidelines / Rules of Reply

Note: Polk Audio is not responsible for any of the sales that go in within these areas. All sales are at your own risk.

Do your research about an individual before buying anything. Check to see if they have positive feedback by clicking "Member Sales Rating" under their name.

You must have a total post count of 100 (contribute to the other parts of the forum) before you can buy or sell anything in the "For Sale (FS) Classifieds" or "Garage Sale" forums.

Selling gear "for a friend" doesn't count in this Flea Market. You, or your "friend" need to take direct responsibility for the transaction. You should encourage them to join and participate prior to FM sales. There have been a couple bad transactions where the seller has washed his hands of it, since it wasn't "his" originally. Sorry Charlie, if the gear is that good, buy it and sell it under your name and assume responsibility.

The feedback submitted for those transactions do not count and will be scrutinized and deleted.

Patrick

hochpt21

I think the Polk forum classifieds section is still a place that should be protected somehow and deals should be passed to established members.

However, I will say its tough to see an item for sale for months with no action and someone with 15 posts wants to buy it, but we won't let them. At that point every member has had ample time and the item probably wont sell to our limited regular base.

Also, most people with under 100 posts are newbies, and getting them to buy an item may encourage them to stick around and ask questions and get involved. Rather than having them be afraid to post because they have very limited knowledge and they end up just going away.

There may be an occasional scheming flipper, but I think the majority of newbies end up here because they are genuinely interested in audio. I know that's how I started.

Our regular base is way down and I don't think most of the old members who left will ever really come back. The only way to grow the forum again is to attract new members.....and sometimes we can be a very intimidating group to newbies.

This may not be the answer, but even something like a 25 post limit. 100 seems almost un-doable to a newb, but 25 might not seem that hard. And you can typically get a decent feel for someone in 25 posts to know if they are for real or a jack rabbit.

motorhead43026

I can understand putting stipulations on selling. I think the rules for buying should be relaxed though.

msg

hochpt21 wrote: »

I think the Polk forum classifieds section is still a place that should be protected somehow and deals should be passed to established members.

However, I will say its tough to see an item for sale for months with no action and someone with 15 posts wants to buy it, but we won't let them. At that point every member has had ample time and the item probably wont sell to our limited regular base.

Also, most people with under 100 posts are newbies, and getting them to buy an item may encourage them to stick around and ask questions and get involved. Rather than having them be afraid to post because they have very limited knowledge and they end up just going away.

This may not be the answer, but even something like a 25 post limit. 100 seems almost un-doable to a newb, but 25 might not seem that hard. And you can typically get a decent feel for someone in 25 posts to know if they are for real or a jack rabbit.

I agree with pretty much all of this.
that said, I put in my time to gain access to the FM, so I kind of feel like everyone else should have to, as well. it's simply like paying one's dues.

I do think it would be annoying to miss one of the FM deals to a newbie who hadn't gotten his posts in and wasn't a contributing member. More specifically, someone who didn't stick around after.

I also recognize that it may be hard for someone to get his/her posts in if they're not here specifically for assistance in getting a piece of gear working for them. that's probably partly the point though. I don't think 100 is unattainable for a newbie, but it does require patience and participation. as a person new to better audio 1.5yrs ago, had I not stumbled in here with trouble with selecting speakers and then with sound quality after purchase, I'd never have gotten my posts because I wouldn't have had anything to talk about, really. then again, I also wouldn't have learned anything either, which is probably again another point of earning access to the FM. it was incentive to become involved. it was tough though having to miss deals while I got established here, but hey, everyone else had to put in their time, too.

I can respect the established rules and the desire to maintain them in order to exercise some control over access to the FM. I feel like it should remain an earned resource. As noted, maybe after a certain period has passed, maybe it could be left to the seller's discretion to let an item go to a member without his posts.

pitdogg2

I remember when there was no 100 post rule yet those who sold made stipulations to that effect for their items. i.e. must be a member for at least 1yr or for those with 250 post or more. the 100 post rule brought all of this in alignment. I know a lot of folks will just "google" a item for sale and go to each link trying to buy. With identity theft on the rise this will help keep us somewhat safe because anyone looking to rip someone off won't spend the time or energy to participate, they'll want it right now with little crumbs left behind.

So if they do away with the 100 post just go back to "for sale for those with 500 post" it is your sale and you can set it any way you want for the most part.

tonyb

My thought is to leave it alone. If you as a seller has no action on an item here, there are plenty of other places to take it and list it. If you as a seller encounters a buyer with under 100 posts, that's your call, but take it out of the forum to do business by private email/pm's/facebook/twitter or some other form of communication. Use that nifty Star Trek communicator.

Why does this need to be any more complicated ? Pretty simple imho.

[Deleted User]

My thinking is we have a call for vote: Do away with the 100 post rule? Yes or No
Your vote counts for 1X your post count.
Winner takes all!

mantis

I don't see any issues with the current setup. I have sold many items and purchased with no issues ever.

heiney9

tonyb wrote: »

My thought is to leave it alone. If you as a seller has no action on an item here, there are plenty of other places to take it and list it. If you as a seller encounters a buyer with under 100 posts, that's your call, but take it out of the forum to do business by private email/pm's/facebook/twitter or some other form of communication. Use that nifty Star Trek communicator.

Why does this need to be any more complicated ? Pretty simple imho.

Agreed.

Not sure why this is even up for discussion as the rules aren't going to change just because we ask them to be changed.

I see nothing wrong with them in their current form.

H9

P.s. The reason the FM stinks nowadays is because there is less camaraderie and too much member turnover or tune out. The glory days of awesome deals and never getting burned in the FM are gone, with some exceptions of course.

gudnoyez

tonyb wrote: »

My thought is to leave it alone. If you as a seller has no action on an item here, there are plenty of other places to take it and list it. If you as a seller encounters a buyer with under 100 posts, that's your call, but take it out of the forum to do business by private email/pm's/facebook/twitter or some other form of communication. Use that nifty Star Trek communicator.

Why does this need to be any more complicated ? Pretty simple imho.

I Agree with this, however I just need to quit viewing the for sale section to many temptations.I agree as it has been slow latley stuff that usually sold in hours or a day or two at the most is still around for weeks or even months.

vmaxer

gudnoyez wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

My thought is to leave it alone. If you as a seller has no action on an item here, there are plenty of other places to take it and list it. If you as a seller encounters a buyer with under 100 posts, that's your call, but take it out of the forum to do business by private email/pm's/facebook/twitter or some other form of communication. Use that nifty Star Trek communicator.

Why does this need to be any more complicated ? Pretty simple imho.

I Agree with this, however I just need to quit viewing the for sale section to many temptations.I agree as it has been slow latley stuff that usually sold in hours or a day or two at the most is still around for weeks or even months.

Hard to have a one size fits all here. Maybe leave it alone as I am in favour of the current rules.

On the other hand, if a good/great deal sits here for a month or so...seller can take it offline and decide for himself???

Like I said, hard to find a one size fits all.

I sure wish we had the participation of the old days.

[Deleted User]

If anybody sends me via PM any updates to the selling/buying rating guide I'm happy to post them.

cnh

I have no problem with the old rules. But I understand Skip's frustration- things have been SLOW here! Very SLOW and active membership has dropped off so many items do go unsold for longer than usual.

Having said that. As some of you know, we used to have buyer/seller info on each of us which was lost a while back-a number indicating how many sales/purchases you had offered/made in the classifieds. That info WAS useful and a barometer for good forum membership and behavior. But it's pretty much disappeared so I would add that to this debate. Bring back the stats.

tonyb

Post them as the rule ? What if you get contradicting requests ?

How about a rule that we follow the rules ?

Maybe a stipulation in there than anyone selling to a buyer with under 100 posts need to take it off world....in sci-fi terminology.

Farkenhostile

As someone who has been around here for almost 2 years now and still has less than 100 posts I can say that this rule prevented me from buying most of my entire system from people here. I don't chat much but I come here all the time to get great info. Instead I bought from ebay and other places.

I'm not complaining about the rule and I see why its in place... But I would have bought things from you all who I would have trusted over ebay etc.

tonyb

Eh....while I can agree on Vanilla taking the heat for some of this, did it ever occur to people that some simply don't have the coin in this economy ? That some have out grown the forum and moved on ? Happens all the time and has happened in the past, even under the former forum software.

It's not up to us to recruit anyone....that's Polks gig. We simply talk Polk products and audio in general.

Polkie2009

I have no problems with the 100 post rule, makes a lot of sense and weeds out the riffraff. If you really enjoy AV gear or any of the tons of topics we talk about in The Clubhouse, , it shouldn't take a long time to hit 100 posts. I understand that there are going to be missed sells to newbies. we all had to do our time and we missed out on some deals, but it also enabled the regular polkies with over 100 posts to find that deal. It's nice to have that trust and camaraderie that gets built with time. Most of us do have Ebay accounts and I've seen where some polkies will move their sale to Ebay if they can't sell it here. Newbies can always buy on Ebay , heck,I buy stuff on Ebay often. I don't know where all of our old members went, (if they are on other forums or lost interest in AV gear), but it did make a difference (as in more sales) in the CP flea market when they were here. I miss reading a lot of their posts and stories.

PSOVLSK

Polkie2009 wrote: »

I have no problems with the 100 post rule, makes a lot of sense and weeds out the riffraff...

...it also enabled the regular polkies with over 100 posts to find that deal...

We hardly even have members, much less riff raff.

If an item has been here for a month, the regular Polkies aren't missing out.

Some of you are basically saying to be sneaky about selling to a member with less than 100 posts by recommending to contact them via pm, etc. I understand why you say that, but I'd rather someone be honest and up front.

It's already been stated a couple of times in this thread, but if you're the seller you can put whatever stipulations you choose on your sell. For example, "Members with over 100 posts have first option to buy."

If the economy is preventing the sale of a $150 amp then the country is in much worse shape than I realized Things aren't selling because there are no buyers plain and simple. There are probably less than 50 active members...we can only sell each other so much stuff

BlueFox

I would say a seller has to have 100 posts.
An immediate buyer has to have 100 posts.
If unsold after two weeks then any buyer is eligible.

Mikey081057

So the rules as they exist today are the rules. My concern would be how to keep scammers away ... the 100 post rule "helps" with that. Anybody bent on scamming could get their post count up to 100 in about 10 minutes. Personally I would'nt buy anything from anybody I don't know, which makes the argument that just like anywhere the "buyer beware" rule of common sense needs to prevail. Personally I wouldn't buy anything from someone who joined this week just to sell something. But if someone wants to I really don't care one way or the other. i have bought and sold a few things on CP and have not had any problems and realize that there are a lot of things that could go wrong. Anybody who scams should have their IP address banned. Even that can be defeated too.

Maybe their is a better qualifier than post count. Maybe you have to be a member for greater than 90 days...

Polkie2009

Paul makes a very valid point about this economy, I don't have near the extra cash to spend like I did a couple of years ago. I agree with Skip, that beautiful Parasound HCA-3500 amp should have found a home by now, but sometimes the distance factor may keep someone from buying it and they prefer not to risk damage in shipping. Also , maybe the amount of cost is just not in our budget. I'll admit it, I always prefer buying something from someone local where I can drive over and pick it up. Unfortunately, as was mentioned, there's just not as many here as there used to that were looking to buy. I suppose that's where Ebay has an advantage with much greater advertising of your ad.

kevhed72

I see no reason....or better way....to do the FM. The focus should really be how do we get a mobile version of the forum. Just a thought...

Conradicles

The forum is dead guys. Long gone are the glory days. Sorry to sound negative, just stating the facts. Carry on...

vmaxer

Conradicles wrote: »

The forum is dead guys. Long gone are the glory days. Sorry to sound negative, just stating the facts. Carry on...

This is the very sad part!!

PSOVLSK

DSkip wrote: »

PSOVLSK wrote: »

There are probably less than 50 active members...we can only sell each other so much stuff

...A better example would be the HCA-3500 that has been sitting here for months at a stupid good price

Or my Peachtree Nova

aprazer402

I'm fine with leaving it as is. I look in the FS area every once in a while and what I don't like is looking through a FS post and scrolling to the bottom only to find it SOLD. I think it's a good idea to leave posts with sold items up so everyone has some history of what has been listed and for how much. But could there be someway to mark an unopened post if the item is sold so you don't have to go through them all? I know this would not be practical when there are multiple items listed for sale in one post such as albums where some sell and others are still available. Probably no easy way around this then. Thanks.

Toolfan66

At this point the way the forum is I say it's your stuff to sell, and if you can move it more power to you, if you want to leave it up for a few to see if a long time member wants it, do so....

Really the forum of old is gone, nothing last forever, and maybe it's just time to roll with the change... The best thing I say we do is just have each other's back and support their choice...

Does Polk really care how we want the forum? I think we know the answer...
Does Polk really care if we stay or go? Again I think we know the answer....
Do they care about Polk fest like years past? I would say no..

Just my rant and .2 cents..

BlueFox

PSOVLSK wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

PSOVLSK wrote: »

There are probably less than 50 active members...we can only sell each other so much stuff

...A better example would be the HCA-3500 that has been sitting here for months at a stupid good price

Or my Peachtree Nova

Or my Bryston DAC.

rooftop59

100 post count to sell. That brings some level of security to the buyer. The seller can refuse to sell to anyone. If I am offering a deal, I will only sell to polkies. But as a general rule, anyone can buy.

My first sale here in 08 I think was to a guy with 2 posts. I asked him to post feedback and he did. Another of my early sales was the same way. That Feedback gave me street cred so to speak. I think that should once again be the rule.

And yes, the real point is the forum is dead and polk doesn't give a d/\mn. There are 20 people total on right now. That is really sad. Opening up the fm a bit might bring in some new folks.

F1nut

Opening up the fm a bit might bring in some new folks.

I'm not sure about that one, but changing back to vBulletin would for sure.

As for the FM rules, I'm still mulling that over.

tonyb

rooftop59 wrote: »

Opening up the fm a bit might bring in some new folks.

You really think so ? I know a few of you keep bringing that point up but I disagree. Polk products are what will bring people here, not the ability to buy or sell used gear. There's just too many avenues to do that.

Maybe that's a reflection of Polk products ? I don't know, but I think our lack of membership is due to many things.

Lack of leadership from Polk
Failure to advertise the forum
Competition is more stiff these days
Vanilla
Economy

I fail to see how opening the FM to anyone will benefit the forum except to serve a few self interests. Just because some Joe Schmoe comes here to buy something doesn't mean he's here for the conversation or audio in general.

Look at how many members have been here awhile....and barely participate anymore. Then look at the economy....then look at the products being offered. Lets face it, audio is not the first priority of many. Quality audio even less.
Plus some have just moved on to other products and forums that cater to the more higher end. The lack of membership is the sign of the times. Selling your gear to any Tom,Dick and Harry isn't going to change that.

So far, what I'm hearing is sour grapes from a few that can't sell their items. Some even have their items listed on other sites and still can't sell them. To me, that's more so a sign of the times rather than our rules being outdated. To change the rules for the many to accommodate the few seems silly to me.

BTW, I too have had stuff sit in the FM.....heck I couldn't get any bites on some cables for 40 bucks, half price of new. I gave them away to another member. I like the 100 posts to sell, 50 to buy suggestions, some sort of rule to keep the riff raff out anyway.

Ask yourself this too.....why are you here ? Because our membership is huge....or small ? To sell or buy stuff ? Because you think Polk products are God among men ?

No.....your here because of the people and their vast knowledge of all things audio. Your here because of the friends you've made, and value their opinions. Those that want to be part of that are welcome as newbies, those that just want to sell or buy stuff aren't so much. Seems to me opening the FM to anyone also opens us up to an even bigger amount of trolls.