MartyCube... Lets get ready to CRANK THE BASS!!!!!!!!

EndersShadow

Ok, so I'm coming back around to what I actually want, which is to plumb the depths of LFE with a monster sub. The designer of the sub has flat out told me to ignore a subsonic filter on this sub as it ends up handicapping it greatly. As such I started playing with PEQ in WinISD and stopped looking at max spl at max gain but more about pulling up the under 20hz stuff since I have enough gain up high for what I need, its low down that I want to add.

If I go with just ~400 watts of gain (with the other 4 - 600 for headroom) I can throw a 5 db gain on the sub at 25 hz which brings the bottom end up considerably and lets me get around 100 db @ 13hz and still be at 90 db @ 10hz, both not accounting for room gain.

Now this is over the THX Reference level of 85 db so I know I would be fine. With this and WITHOUT a subsonic filter the driver reaches XMax (33.5) at around 13hz and never reaches XMech which is ~50mm.

I think this is the better option as I want to work on the below 20hz stuff. So I am thinking this sub is in my future.

I had 2 other thoughts.

One was to try to buy 2 of the HST-11 drivers since they really like a small sealed box and can dig about as low as the 15" driver. I could try to get the wife onboard since I'd be getting rid of the really big sub for 2 much smaller (easier to place and dial in) subs. Problem with this is that I'd also need to upgrade my amp to a pro amp which then may result in additional wiring to make sure I provide enough voltage at the input to use the full volume of the amp if needed. And then I'd need really heavy boxes as I can see the sub walking around. This is the most costly option.

Second option - buy another 3 or 4 cubic foot box for the HST driver. It likes sealed alignments better and can do smaller boxes than most 15" drivers. I could still use PEQ, but I'd need a lot more wattage to get the same SPL as the ported sub, but never risk hitting XMax or XMech on the sub. Issue is I'd need some serious wattage to pull up the bottom end with PEQ and I'd be needing to upgrade my amp which isnt really in the budget. I could re-use my current sub in my office in the back corner and never need another sub for my stereo setup ever hehehe.....

gp4jesus

At the risk of igniting mudslinging, use robust wire to connect that driver to its power source

EndersShadow

gp4jesus wrote: »

At the risk of igniting mudslinging, use robust wire to connect that driver to its power source

You mean like Audioquest FL/X 14/4 doubled up for the amp to sub , and with 12 gauge Furez interior wiring for each binding post

WLDock

gp4jesus wrote: »

At the risk of igniting mudslinging, use robust wire to connect that driver to its power source

Oh come on....no one would debate the use of heavy gauge wire for subs. Everyone from teenagers running a couple of Funky Pups in their Honda Civic to a diehard home theateraphiles running four Stereo Integrity HS24 24″ powered by 8400 watts from two Crown XTi 6002 amps. All are going to use a heavier gauge wire...no reason what so ever to think Dan/Ender was using undersized wire....nothing to talk about.


I say Dan sell me the HT-15 (Will have more space when I move! Can you say duals?) and you move on to a pair of those MONSTERS!

EndersShadow

WLDock wrote: »

I say Dan sell me the HT-15 (Will have more space when I move! Can you say duals?) and you move on to a pair of those MONSTERS!

HA....... I wont rule anything out. I need to get the WinISD models for the smaller subs to see. My issue is then I'm looking at a lot of cost as duals would require a different amp so I could EQ each one independently.

I'm also not sure if I'd go with dual HST-15, or maybe the smaller HST-11's as they can get by in ridiculously small ported boxes......

Below are some graphs of the best case for each driver. The HST-15 is in Red and the current HT-15 is in green. I should note this is not accounting for room gain at all. Before I do anything I'd go ahead and run some sweeps in my room to see just what the room maps like with my current sub as far as gain goes. Overall my objective is to dig quite a bit lower, and if possible re-use my current amp and box, and if nothing else my amp with smaller dual subs so I can locate them were I want. Dual opposed while cool would end up still being just one sub and I'd prefer 2 small or one really big one.

SPL

This graph is the HST-15 driver at 325 watts (needed to ensure it doesnt clip the amp) and the HT-15 at 800 watts which is where it would start to reach XMech, so its the best case for both drivers and the HST barely loses in the upper frequencies, but destroys it lower.



Cone Excursion

The HT-15 never reaches max excursion thanks to the subsonic filter. The HST-15 without the subsonic filter reaches XMax and then almost XMech at the very bottom of the frequency range



Port Velocity

This is a concern to me given the likelihood the HST-15 will chuff the port at lower frequencies, and the lower frequencies are all I would be buying it for.



Amp Load

The HST-15 driver can handle a ton more wattage than my amp can give it. The PEQ applied to bring the bottom end up starts to get close to clipping the amp, hence the use of ONLY 325 watts on the driver. A pro amp with more wattage would be able to further the SPL differences in a much better way, however I'd be counting on the SVS-AS-EQ1 for everything as there would not be a PEQ filter to apply as I would likely go with a single Crown XLS-2000 so I could still use RCA and speaker wires rather than XLR & Speakon.



Group Delay

Not too well versed in how big a deal this actually is but the HST-15 models better than the HT-15, likely due to the additional wattage the HT-15 has



Here is a more fair comparison which is both drivers at the same wattage (325)





In looking at a complete rebuild in a sealed box the HST drivers really do want a decently small box and a lot of wattage to then use EQ to bring up the bottom end, very similar to the old Sunfire True Sub Junior's...

If I did a complete rebuild the 15 would be as big as I would go as the 18 needs more room than I would want to give it, and the cost is quite high. The HST-15 is 450 shipped and the HST-11 is 329 and the HST-12 350. So duals of the 15 would likely be a bit too much for me.

I could possibly see going with dual HST 11's in say a 2 or 3 cubic foot sealed box stuffed to the brim with polyfil and then a but ton of EQ to bring the bottom end back up, provided room gain wouldnt do that already.

EndersShadow

So the mic has come in, but so have my HTPC parts. For the next week I'm going to get my HTPC up and running. Then once installed in the HT I can install REW on it and use the mic better to measure things.

In the meantime I installed the newer version of WinISD. Per that program the HST in a sealed box (with the right PEQ) can spec ALMOST the same as the HT-15 in my ported box. These graphs are using my current Dayton SA-1000 amp, but putting the HST-15 in a sealed 3 cubic foot box (I'd buy the DIYSoundGroup one). With a bit of PEQ (the Dayton has one band of PEQ) at 30hz with a boost of 4.5db and a Q of 1 I basically overlap the top of my HT-15 graph, but then DESTROY it sub 20hz. All of this without Audyssey doing anything to either so its a apples to apples compare best I can.

All of this is with the amp load (VA) under 900 watts and with excursion well within limits. Meaning for the HST Audyssey could add some boosts as needed and not have to worry about bottoming out the driver.


Eventually I'd look for a decent pro amp to replace the Dayton, and either just trust Audyssey XT32 to do its thing (will be upgrading to a Denon X4100 soon) or use a MiniDSP (again) and then Audyssey to ensure it gets as low as it can as flat as it can.

If I did go with a new box the one thing I would do from the start is wire it for a Speak-On connection as well as regular binding posts, so I can run a pro amp or a regular one without requiring any adapters to do so.


Graphs below. These are really low because I set the distance to 10 feet since thats about the distance from the sub to the main seating area.


HST-15 in RED, HT-15 in BLACK

SPL:



Excursion:



Amp load:

ZLTFUL

Hmmm...4 HST15s up front, 2 in the rear and then a couple of MBMs halfway down each wall in the new theater may be in order...*evil laugh*

EndersShadow

Just rub it in a bit more.... please...... just go ahead