Phillip Seymour Hoffman found dead...
Comments
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I'm going on 24 years away from my cocaine/crack, crystal meth induced days. there is not one thing I miss about those days. A dark sad few years of my young life...
And for the record "IMO" 12 step programs are a joke, AA, NA, the sad truth of it all is you meet new people with with the same issues, and the next thing you know is you have more contacts in your little black book to score your drug of choice..
If it has worked for some great!! but in my experience I have never seen one person use it and make it...
I understand it's an addiction, I have been there done that, but you still have a choice to say yes or no, I just decided to say no, and wanted more out of life.. It can be done, the first few months is the worst, and "IMO" the hardest thing to do to break it, is separating yourself from your so called friends, and even family that you deem unhealthy for you to succeed....
WOW Larry that is heavy stuff right there.
You've come a long way my friend. Congratulations and keep it up as I too know it is hard you get the itch every now and then. I also knew friends that went to NA just to get new contacts and better sources. -
Congrats Larry! Good for you for having the strength to conquer it.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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I'm going on 24 years away from my cocaine/crack, crystal meth induced days. there is not one thing I miss about those days. A dark sad few years of my young life...
And for the record "IMO" 12 step programs are a joke, AA, NA, the sad truth of it all is you meet new people with with the same issues, and the next thing you know is you have more contacts in your little black book to score your drug of choice..
If it has worked for some great!! but in my experience I have never seen one person use it and make it...
I understand it's an addiction, I have been there done that, but you still have a choice to say yes or no, I just decided to say no, and wanted more out of life.. It can be done, the first few months is the worst, and "IMO" the hardest thing to do to break it, is separating yourself from your so called friends, and even family that you deem unhealthy for you to succeed....
Congrats for being clean so long. And finally someone else saying it is a choice to do drugs, which often results in addiction, someone who was using them and then DECIDED to STOP. It can be done.
I agree, it is an addiction. I have second thoughts calling it a disease.
Call it a disease and that only empowers the addict to keep doing it; "It's a disease, if I stop I still have it, so why stop?"
It's kind of insulting to someone who actually has a disease like MS for instance, I bet they wish they could just stop having MS.
An addict CAN stop using drugs, however impossible that may seem to them.
As stated by Toolfan, it is very difficult, but it is still your choice to continue or stop. -
Funny isn't it ? When someone famous dies from a drug overdose, must be the fault of the seller, lets go get them. Average kid on the street dies, and it's the users fault.
+1
I'm sure he wasn't the only person who OD'ed in NY that day...Wristwatch--->Crisco -
mudboy, welcome to my BOZO list. What an a$$ you are.Political Correctness'.........defined
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caribbean-sales wrote: »Polk Audio R30 (SINGLE) Speaker CHERRY FINISH ~NEW IN BOX ~ FOR SALE.... ANYONE INTERESTED?
I am, send me all your personal info, and I will wire the money right over. Don't bother shipping it, just shove it up you're
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caribbean-sales wrote: »Polk Audio R30 (SINGLE) Speaker CHERRY FINISH ~NEW IN BOX ~ FOR SALE.... ANYONE INTERESTED?
Wow, caribbean-sales you have no class trying to sell something in this thread. -
mudboy, welcome to my BOZO list. What an a$$ you are.
Very mature.
Try to explain it anyway you like, but a person can always choose not to do drugs. Period. -
Very mature.
Try to explain it anyway you like, but a person can always choose not to do drugs. Period.
I never said it was easy, it came with it's ups and downs, it took time to get to the point of not doing them at all.. It's an ugly dark sick world to get out of..Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
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I don't claim to be an expert here, but I don't think addiction is one-size-fits-all. I certainly sympathize with the person who suffers a debilitating injury, then becomes addicted to pain killers and the downward spiral starts from there. That's a very different case than the Keith Richards example. Having read his book, I don't think Keith considers his addictions a "disease." Clearly at some point he made a choice to put a needle in his arm, and in his book he makes no excuses for it. Addiction does seem to have many characteristics of a disease, in that some people have it, some people don't. Some people can handle having the occasional beer or two, a glass of wine here and there, or hard liquor if that's the choice, without getting hooked and needing to drink constantly. Some people can smoke an occasional joint and not end up with needles in their arms or popping pills. So some clearly have addictive tendencies, others are capable of moderation and control. So I can understand why addiction is considered a disease. However, it is also true that substances like crack and heroin are known to be highly physically addictive, and there are some who make a conscious choice to try these substances knowing full well in advance that they are addictive. In that respect, it is a decision that some people make poorly, and others don't. Like I said, each case is unique.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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I don't claim to be an expert here, but I don't think addiction is one-size-fits-all. I certainly sympathize with the person who suffers a debilitating injury, then becomes addicted to pain killers and the downward spiral starts from there. That's a very different case than the Keith Richards example. Having read his book, I don't think Keith considers his addictions a "disease." Clearly at some point he made a choice to put a needle in his arm, and in his book he makes no excuses for it. Addiction does seem to have many characteristics of a disease, in that some people have it, some people don't. Some people can handle having the occasional beer or two, a glass of wine here and there, or hard liquor if that's the choice, without getting hooked and needing to drink constantly. Some people can smoke an occasional joint and not end up with needles in their arms or popping pills. So some clearly have addictive tendencies, others are capable of moderation and control. So I can understand why addiction is considered a disease. However, it is also true that substances like crack and heroin are known to be highly physically addictive, and there are some who make a conscious choice to try these substances knowing full well in advance that they are addictive. In that respect, it is a decision that some people make poorly, and others don't. Like I said, each case is unique.
+1 ^^^
Re: overcoming addiction, for some, just saying no works. For others, it's a ridiculous approach. Has to do with metabolism, body chemistry, brain chemistry. Look at cigarettes - in my research (I work with COPD subjects) I've come across many people who decided to stop smoking and never had another cigarette. But for most, the average attempts for smoking cessation is 7 before achieving success.
These are not simply week willed folks. They're people who have a physical craving. Many drugs alter chemistry in the brain, which requires regular use of the substance for simple maintenance, never mind getting high.
Look at american indians and australian aborigines. They have rates of alcoholism that are much higher than the general population with possible causes involving differences in alcohol metabolism and the genotype of alcohol-metabolizing enzymes. Do you think this may also apply to opioids and other classes of drugs re: genetic predisposition to addiction? I do.
It's just not as simple as some here believe."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
drumminman wrote: »It's just not as simple as some here believe.
True, true, and true. This applies to many subjects. Unfortunately, there are a lot of simple-minded people in the world, and it seems as if the simple-minded always think they know everything, regardless of the subject.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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drumminman wrote: »These are not simply week willed folks. They're people who have a physical craving. Many drugs alter chemistry in the brain, which requires regular use of the substance for simple maintenance, never mind getting high.
Look at american indians and australian aborigines. They have rates of alcoholism that are much higher than the general population with possible causes involving differences in alcohol metabolism and the genotype of alcohol-metabolizing enzymes. Do you think this may also apply to opioids and other classes of drugs re: genetic predisposition to addiction? I do.
It's just not as simple as some here believe.
Exactly My dad smoked Camel non filtered cigarettes since he was 12(R.I.P.) even though he tried everything to quit. My dad side of the family is high in Cherokee blood and along with the smokes he also was an alcoholic. The last 7 yrs of his life he was able to give one up with a ton of help and some backward steps along the way. Alcohol was what he was able to give up "mostly" though he did have 5 complete yrs without. but still it is what it is. I have my vices but alcohol and cigarettes are not them.
and yes my dad had COPD and congested heart failure and still he knew it was going to kill him and felt helpless even though he did try as hard as anybody I've ever seen. -
I don't claim to be an expert here, but I don't think addiction is one-size-fits-all. I certainly sympathize with the person who suffers a debilitating injury, then becomes addicted to pain killers and the downward spiral starts from there. That's a very different case than the Keith Richards example. Having read his book, I don't think Keith considers his addictions a "disease." Clearly at some point he made a choice to put a needle in his arm, and in his book he makes no excuses for it. Addiction does seem to have many characteristics of a disease, in that some people have it, some people don't. Some people can handle having the occasional beer or two, a glass of wine here and there, or hard liquor if that's the choice, without getting hooked and needing to drink constantly. Some people can smoke an occasional joint and not end up with needles in their arms or popping pills. So some clearly have addictive tendencies, others are capable of moderation and control. So I can understand why addiction is considered a disease. However, it is also true that substances like crack and heroin are known to be highly physically addictive, and there are some who make a conscious choice to try these substances knowing full well in advance that they are addictive. In that respect, it is a decision that some people make poorly, and others don't. Like I said, each case is unique.drumminman wrote: »+1 ^^^
Re: overcoming addiction, for some, just saying no works. For others, it's a ridiculous approach. Has to do with metabolism, body chemistry, brain chemistry. Look at cigarettes - in my research (I work with COPD subjects) I've come across many people who decided to stop smoking and never had another cigarette. But for most, the average attempts for smoking cessation is 7 before achieving success.
These are not simply week willed folks. They're people who have a physical craving. Many drugs alter chemistry in the brain, which requires regular use of the substance for simple maintenance, never mind getting high.
Look at american indians and australian aborigines. They have rates of alcoholism that are much higher than the general population with possible causes involving differences in alcohol metabolism and the genotype of alcohol-metabolizing enzymes. Do you think this may also apply to opioids and other classes of drugs re: genetic predisposition to addiction? I do.
It's just not as simple as some here believe.
Agree 100% Very Nicely Said...Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
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drumminman wrote: »+1 ^^^
Re: overcoming addiction, for some, just saying no works. For others, it's a ridiculous approach. Has to do with metabolism, body chemistry, brain chemistry. Look at cigarettes - in my research (I work with COPD subjects) I've come across many people who decided to stop smoking and never had another cigarette. But for most, the average attempts for smoking cessation is 7 before achieving success.
These are not simply week willed folks. They're people who have a physical craving. Many drugs alter chemistry in the brain, which requires regular use of the substance for simple maintenance, never mind getting high.
Look at american indians and australian aborigines. They have rates of alcoholism that are much higher than the general population with possible causes involving differences in alcohol metabolism and the genotype of alcohol-metabolizing enzymes. Do you think this may also apply to opioids and other classes of drugs re: genetic predisposition to addiction? I do.
It's just not as simple as some here believe.
Tip of the hat to you sir. The American Indian example is an excellent one, and your overall sentiment is very logical. Smoking cigs actually does "rewire" your brain. There are actually "nicotonic receptors" in your brain, and when you quit smoking, it takes something like a couple of months to "rewire" your brain back to they way it was without nicotine in your system.
My explanation is excessively simplistic as I can't remember the nitty gritty details, but the gist is there. Nicotine is just one of many examples of a drug literally changing the way your body functions, and in a manner that makes overcoming the substance very difficult.
Just my hay penny's worth as an on again off again smoker that would love to never see another cig again.2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
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still cant believe this. I guess no more hunger games movies. Cant continue without his character
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I'm going to repeat this because it seems many of you, especially mudboy, still don't understand. You're all looking at this as a physical thing, it's not. The use of drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc. are MEAR SYMPTOMS of the disease of addition. It is an insidious mental disease just like any other mental disease.
Someone that has stopped using or gambling still suffers from the disease. One is never fully cured, but one can learn to cope with it and lead a "normal, productive life."
28 years here and at the start, in no small part to the 12 step programs. I also know a helluva lot of folks that used it and made it because, and this is key, they knew something was wrong and wanted to change. The programs give one the foundation and tools required to bring that change about.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
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Congratulations Larry
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Someone that has stopped using or gambling still suffers from the disease. One is never fully cured, but one can learn to cope with it and lead a "normal, productive life."
I'm a hardcore drunk.I haven't had a sip of alcohol in a little over 23 years.Drugs were entertainment and i did a lot of them but booze,ahhhh,booze.They haven't made enough booze to quench my thirst.
If i go out and have a drink tonight i will be hammered in a few hours or a few days at the most.It's a fact that addicts pick up where they left off if they start using again.
In my opinion unless you are an addict you cannot understand it.You can try,and you can be sympathetic or you can not give a crap and call it whatever you want.BS,physical,mental,emotional problem or weakness,disease.I'm not saying what i believe it is cuz i'm not getting into that argument.
If you're not an addict you don't know what it's like.And you never will.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
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I'm a hardcore drunk.I haven't had a sip of alcohol in a little over 23 years.Drugs were entertainment and i did a lot of them but booze,ahhhh,booze.They haven't made enough booze to quench my thirst.
If i go out and have a drink tonight i will be hammered in a few hours or a few days at the most.It's a fact that addicts pick up where they left off if they start using again.
In my opinion unless you are an addict you cannot understand it.You can try,and you can be sympathetic or you can not give a crap and call it whatever you want.BS,physical,mental,emotional problem or weakness,disease.I'm not saying what i believe it is cuz i'm not getting into that argument.
If you're not an addict you don't know what it's like.And you never will.
Yep I went through that three times, not only did I go back to where I started I got worse, it sucked. I know in my heart I will never do it again, where I'm at in life is awesome, I wouldn't trade it for the world..
Jesse, I'm not disagreeing with you, as I understand what you're saying, I'm only sharing my experience. And congrats on the big 28, and I'm sure in your heart you know you will never see those days again as well. I do believe everyone finds their own path and road but they do have to want it as well, I don't think everyone that posted is wrong, just different perspectives, and thoughts..
For me I have a very addictive personality, I just tune it in to other things in life, like my car, audio, staying fit, and I for one love my job, so I got plenty of things in life to keep me busy, and I would never do anything to hurt my beautiful loving wife, and my kids..Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
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Sorry, I know the topic is a serious one, but the mathematician in me had a good laugh due to that missing 'c'.
Whadda yappin' 'bout, addition is a disease. :cheesygrin:Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
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Jesse, I'm not disagreeing with you, as I understand what you're saying, I'm only sharing my experience. And congrats on the big 28, and I'm sure in your heart you know you will never see those days again as well. I do believe everyone finds their own path and road but they do have to want it as well, I don't think everyone that posted is wrong, just different perspectives, and thoughts..
I gotcha, no problem and you're right that everyone finds their own path. You know, it's funny when the topic comes up I have to stop and think how long it's been, which is a good thing.For me I have a very addictive personality, I just tune it in to other things in life, like my car, audio, staying fit, and I for one love my job, so I got plenty of things in life to keep me busy, and I would never do anything to hurt my beautiful loving wife, and my kids..
Exactly and that's it, one learns to cope and channel the issue into things that are not self-destructive or harmful to others.brgman wrote:If you're not an addict you don't know what it's like.And you never will.
So true!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I, for one, am very glad you gentlemen found the paths you did.
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Whadda yappin' 'bout, addition is a disease. :cheesygrin:
Especially when you get older and a calculator is the only cure...Skips just yappin' 'cause he's getting ready to graduate as a math major.
As for the addiction/disease debate been there done that as the same life as Tool and as he said the addiction is still there but channeled into other desires. My wife calls it OCD, but any time I latch onto what I call a hobby, I usually take it the extreme and very focused just as I was on drugs it just isn't destructive and doesn't harm the ones around my life...been 13yrs
And all that have crossed this path of destruction and able to keep their life anchored congrats. Anyone still having issues there is hope, you just have to discover another path.....as Gump would say "that's all I have to say about that"2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
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Ken is right there, Bravo! But as said so many times, it's no easy road. And I agree that addiction can be both a physical and psychological problem--or disease if you will (a life long struggle).
I have some first hand experience myself, not me, but an alcoholic parent. And I also took some time off from grad school to do an internship at the National Council on Alcoholism in the '80s where, for a year, I met and talked with and helped place 100s of individuals in Detox centers, AA, and therapy. The '80s were also known as the era of cross-addiction because we had a lot of Alcohol-cocaine addicts. It is, indeed, very complicated, and quite heartbreaking. But also rewarding when you can actually help someone. But that's tough to do if they're in denial, you often have to hit that wall, or fall quite low and even then?
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Kenneth Swauger wrote: »I, for one, am very glad you gentlemen found the paths you did.
+1. I can't imagine how difficult the journeys have been for you guys, but I'm glad you've ended up in a good place. I'm sure each day has it's challenges, and I wish you guys the continued strength to keep overcoming them.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
+1. I can't imagine how difficult the journeys have been for you guys, but I'm glad you've ended up in a good place. I'm sure each day has it's challenges, and I wish you guys the continued strength to keep overcoming them.
I agree 100%
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Question
If just about every heroin addict started smoking pot and few pot smokers end up heroin addicts what does that tell you?????
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I know there are drugs that are highly addictive, people can argue that heroin is addictive after only using it one time and I don't disagree. I understand that line of reasoning. I don't consider myself an addict in any way, yet I was once addicted to cigarettes. So I can see how one can argue that not everyone is born an addict from their DNA. But this is how I have always looked at it, and I know most people around here don't agree with anything I say. I feel that ONLY AN ADDICT would try heroin. I would never put myself in a situation where I would try one of these heavier addictive drugs. I'm sure some people use cocaine recreationally, yet I see those people as having some form of "addictive personality" to even try a drug like that. I may be confusing an addictive personality with bad judgment, I don't know.
I'd also like to say congrats to anyone that acknowledged that they had a problem and had the will power and strength to quit. You have my utmost respect. -
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Was he someone that you considered to have a drug problem before trying heroin?
What drug is it that destroys your teeth? I can't remember.
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