Converting a friend from Bose - Let's start with speakers <$800

Mystery

Monitor Audio Silver RX-6.

drummer86

DSkip wrote: »

Not trying to kill your sale, but I wouldn't put 15's in a 12x12 room. 9's would work well given you have good power, but 15's will overpower that room and the side firing subs are going to be an issue.

I was thinking the same thing. Bookshelves are likely the best route for the room. He's totally sold on going through the used market. I think the listening session this weekend will open some eyes and help him narrow down his decisions. Keep the recommendations coming if you got 'em. I have him looking into a pair of Dynaudio DM 2/8, some Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grands, and PSB Imagine B's. The only downside to buying used through places like the 'gon is that you can't get your ears on em before you buy.

aboroth00

drummer86 wrote: »

I was thinking the same thing. Bookshelves are likely the best route for the room. He's totally sold on going through the used market. I think the listening session this weekend will open some eyes and help him narrow down his decisions. Keep the recommendations coming if you got 'em. I have him looking into a pair of Dynaudio DM 2/8, some Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grands, and PSB Imagine B's. The only downside to buying used through places like the 'gon is that you can't get your ears on em before you buy.

Very true about buying used. Having a square room is going to be a problem too, but if he sits close enough to the speakers he can avoid the room cancelling interactions. Take a look at the Tyler's. The Seas Excel woofer has some of the best bass I have ever heard. There's a reason why companies use them on 5k speakers and they cost ~250/each.

aboroth00

I was trying to track down the measurements for the Haydn's. http://www.stereomojo.com/ViennaAcousticsHadynGrandSpeakerReview/ViennaAcousticsHadynGrandSpeakerReview.htm When I first heard them, I did not like them at all. It sounded weird to me sort of unnatural. If you take a look at the graphs, the measurements are pretty much trash. It's a very lopsided speaker when I heard it and the measurements just confirmed it for me. It's certainly a fun speaker if you like the way it sounds.

As for the DM2/8, it's a good speaker. It isn't that much improved on the Audience series IMO. Big difference between the DM line and the Focus but not so much between the Excite and DM. It has a big woofer so you'll get the bass but using a 8" driver for the mids didn't blend as well IMO. PSB Imagine's are nice and I have owned a couple PSB speakers in my day. Their Imagine T pretty much replaced the Synchrony 2's but was never too impressed with any of their bookshelves and I owned a couple but preferred the towers.

HHStuart

DSkip wrote: »

Not trying to kill your sale, but I wouldn't put 15's in a 12x12 room. 9's would work well given you have good power, but 15's will overpower that room and the side firing subs are going to be an issue.

My bad. I hadn't noticed the size of the room. 12 x 12 might be a bit small for LSi 15's and you do have to be careful about having enough room on the sides for the side firing subs.

drummer86

HHStuart wrote: »

My bad. I hadn't noticed the size of the room. 12 x 12 might be a bit small for LSi 15's and you do have to be careful about having enough room on the sides for the side firing subs.

No problem. The situation changed mid-conversation.

As for the room itself, he'll have the freedom to sit wherever it sounds best because that will be the sole function of the room. Lucky ****. I told him to add a comfy leather chair to the budget and a nice set of tumbler for his bourbon. Oh to be a bachelor.

drummer86

aboroth00 wrote: »

I was trying to track down the measurements for the Haydn's. http://www.stereomojo.com/ViennaAcousticsHadynGrandSpeakerReview/ViennaAcousticsHadynGrandSpeakerReview.htm When I first heard them, I did not like them at all. It sounded weird to me sort of unnatural. If you take a look at the graphs, the measurements are pretty much trash. It's a very lopsided speaker when I heard it and the measurements just confirmed it for me. It's certainly a fun speaker if you like the way it sounds.

As for the DM2/8, it's a good speaker. It isn't that much improved on the Audience series IMO. Big difference between the DM line and the Focus but not so much between the Excite and DM. It has a big woofer so you'll get the bass but using a 8" driver for the mids didn't blend as well IMO. PSB Imagine's are nice and I have owned a couple PSB speakers in my day. Their Imagine T pretty much replaced the Synchrony 2's but was never too impressed with any of their bookshelves and I owned a couple but preferred the towers.

Thanks for the input man. It's invaluable getting first-hand accounts on this stuff. Interesting observations about the PSB bookies. What about them didn't impress you? When I had the Image B6s in my setup I was impressed with their midrange and low punch but never a fan of the tweeter. Local dealer mentioned to me that Paul Barton tunes the speakers to sound best with the grills on, which I never knew. Probably would have tamed the brightness of that tweeter a bit.

aboroth00

drummer86 wrote: »

Thanks for the input man. It's invaluable getting first-hand accounts on this stuff. Interesting observations about the PSB bookies. What about them didn't impress you? When I had the Image B6s in my setup I was impressed with their midrange and low punch but never a fan of the tweeter. Local dealer mentioned to me that Paul Barton tunes the speakers to sound best with the grills on, which I never knew. Probably would have tamed the brightness of that tweeter a bit.

PSB, imo makes solid speakers all around. They measure well and they don't skimp in any region. However, their bookshelves are really not PSB's focus and they usually push their towers harder and I can see why. The bass on most PSB's imo is very good and mids good but the highs as you mention don't have as much detail or are very impressive. Using that metal dome, you might get that ringing in your ears after listening to them a while.

I owned the Image series as well and it's an excellent bang for your buck speakers especially at the prices you can get them at. But when you get to their towers, the bass is there, you have that midrange driver to drive the mids properly and the tweets just sound better. It might be due to the crossover constraints as the tweeter is producing a smaller band and you're demanding more from the tweeter in the bookshelves. And when you get a bookshelf speaker, you really want a quality tweeter which I don't think PSB excels at. PSB's were actually my first real speakers that made me think I was getting real hifi sound.

aboroth00

DSkip wrote: »

I agree that Vienna Acoustics aren't my kind of speaker. They are nice speakers for sure, but definitely one you need to get your ears on before you buy them. I'm sure Totem crossed your mind too - there are so many options and it boils down to what HE likes more than anything. If he finds a sound he likes, then we can go from there. Until then, its pure conjecture.

I would agree, not for me as well. All Vienna Acoustics measure that way and it's sort of their house sound. The dealer I heard the Vienna's at told me he didn't like them either or most of the line and only liked the Mozart's. He has since dropped the VA line after Sumiko went under. Very good comparison to the Totem's sound are Dynaudio and Revel so definitely get your ears on a pair. Warm in the mids and highs and solid in the bass. Equally solid manufacturers and I believe it would boil down to your preference. I would probably be almost equally as happy living with good Dyns as my Revels.

I got a pair of Selah Tanzanites as I mentioned for sale. Very clean sounding speaker and has excellent bass. But it's a much more analytical sounding speaker. It gives you all the details, super fast ribbon, excellent soundstage and competes with the big boys at ~3-4k but it doesn't have the warmth that some people want. I added a tube preamp with a lush midrange and highs and problem solved!

drummer86

DSkip wrote: »

I agree that Vienna Acoustics aren't my kind of speaker. They are nice speakers for sure, but definitely one you need to get your ears on before you buy them. I'm sure Totem crossed your mind too - there are so many options and it boils down to what HE likes more than anything. If he finds a sound he likes, then we can go from there. Until then, its pure conjecture.

Yeah you're totally right that it's anyone's guess before he gets his ears on stuff, and he's aware of that too. However, insight like what you and aboroth just gave on the Vienna's definitely helps narrow things down. We really don't have many options for demos around here and I have a hard time taking anything I read in an audio review seriously. Thank God for CP!

steveinaz

Since he is going to be accustomed to a bit of a rolled-off treble, I'd look for something a bit laid back in the highs. Part of what makes Bose so popular among the "semi" hi-fi nuts is the warm midbass and smooth (less in your face) treble. It can be a bit of a culture shock to switch to a speaker with neutral midbass and hot treble.

Speaking as a prior Bose 901 VI owner for 14yrs.

drummer86

Well his first listening session was quite an eye opener. I threw on my old Monitor 30's at first to give him a taste of something would be better than his bose but marginally. He liked it but was not impressed. Then came the Totem's. Not a fair fight at all but he was completely blown away. Based on reviews and what I've heard here and there he'll likely pick up a pair of Dynaudio DM 2/6s or 2/7s and go from there. I have an HK AVR635 that I'll let him use to get started but he knows he's going to need a proper amp sooner than later. I suppose I'll start browsing threads for decent integrateds and preamp/amp combos. There's enough Parasound HCA1000s out there that he should have no trouble scooping one up to get started.

txcoastal1

As you already know

If he's not going to get an amp then he needs to stick with the DM 2/6. Dyn's 2/7's 4 ohm speakers are piggies for power. My Dyn sig's don't even run well on my Pass XA30/60. The reason I purchased my Modwright Integrated.

He'll like the speakers though

drummer86

DSkip wrote: »

What was it about the Totem that blew him away? You're right, it wasn't a fair fight, but its still good to have that reference.

Since he's never heard a quality system before he could not get over the imaging. Having vocals coming right down the center with cymbals high and to the left, guitar wide and ear level and such separation and clarity between all the sounds. He was grinning like a fool, though considerably upset about the future condition of his wallet.

Edit: one if his first comments was about the warmth of the sound. He really enjoyed that it was crisp and clear but not harsh at all.

drummer86

txcoastal1 wrote: »

As you already know

If he's not going to get an amp then he needs to stick with the DM 2/6. Dyn's 2/7's 4 ohm speakers are piggies for power. My Dyn sig's don't even run well on my Pass XA30/60. The reason I purchased my Modwright Integrated.

He'll like the speakers though

Would something like the Parasound HCA-1000 do them justice? 45 peak amps per channel seems pretty legit...

He was definitely concerned that he'd feel tempted to buy an amp sooner than later and before the wallet fully recovered.

drummer86

DSkip wrote: »

I figured that was it - that is the Totem strength. The one thing I'd probably suggest for him is to not become consumed with pinpoint accuracy and imaging. Doing so with budgets can end up producing a system that isn't any fun to listen to. I'm sure you covered the synergy thing with him already. Its just so easy when you're starting to want something so badly that you destroy what makes you want to listen to music in the first place.

The imaging fun was much more apparent when I was showing off my CDs - Jack Johnson, Jamie Cullum, The Civil Wars, Radiohead, NIN - tracks I know show off the strengths of my system. When we popped in some Classical discs - Beethoven Piano Concerto No. 8, Strauss Also Sprach, Tchaikovsky 4th Symphony - the imaging was less apparent but the clarity and size of the soundstage remained unchanged. He said more than once that he could very easily imagine himself spending some quality time just listening to music, which he's wanted to do for some time now.

nbrowser wrote: »

I'm biased...HCA-1200II...would be a serious kick in the posterior...again, I'm biased...hugely biased...

I was waiting for you to chime in on the HCA's. You didn't let me down haha.

txcoastal1

drummer86 wrote: »

Would something like the Parasound HCA-1000 do them justice? 45 peak amps per channel seems pretty legit...

He was definitely concerned that he'd feel tempted to buy an amp sooner than later and before the wallet fully recovered.

In that amp range should work fine. Have you considered the X-14's

drummer86

nbrowser wrote: »

drummer, remember, I'm heavily biased...that's all I'm gonna say...lol

That's okay man. There's obviously a very good reason for your bias. Sometimes when you find something you like that much you just want to shout it from the rooftops... or on every page on the Polk forum! LOL

drummer86

txcoastal1 wrote: »

In that amp range should work fine. Have you considered the X-14's

Haven't ruled out the Excite series but he's looking to buy used so we're going with whatever is available. There's a set of DM 2/7s and DM 2/8s currently on the 'Gon.

txcoastal1

Then I say go for it, if you want to bypass A'gon same seller link below

http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Speakers-Stand-Mounted/Dynaudio/DM-2-7/Speakers-Black-Ash-LIKE-NEW/100339

I bought my Dyn's and Modwright used and saved a bundle

Good luck i like hearing about one's getting new toys....especially around Xmas

txcoastal1

LOL, ....does that mean you'll quit talking about your Usher's

drummer86

Yeah I've had almost as much fun watching him get interested in this as anything. Always nice to have another audio buddy around. Besides, who doesn't have fun spending other people's money? Isn't that what CP is all about?

aboroth00

drummer86 wrote: »

Yeah I've had almost as much fun watching him get interested in this as anything. Always nice to have another audio buddy around. Besides, who doesn't have fun spending other people's money? Isn't that what CP is all about?

Pretty much! You won't be disappointed buying the DM's. Might want to look for some audience series speakers. They compare pretty well but they're much less money considering their age.

drummer86

The only think I haven't been able to make him understand is the patience side of building a rig - especially when going used. Then again I went from an all Monitor setup with a Sony receiver to what I have now in about 8 months. Maybe I'm not the best example for being patient.

drummer86

UPDATE: He pulled the trigger on a barely used pair of Dynaudio DM 2/7's from Audiogon. They'll be shipped this morning and will hopefully arrive by week's end. Thanks to all for the input! Next thread will likely be for amps and/or preamps.

steveinaz

That's quite a paradigm shift; from Bose to Dynaudio. Good for him.

marvda1

here's two options for ampilication.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122138.msg1285836#new

marvda1

here's two options for ampilication.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122138.msg1285836#new

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122164.msg1286201#new
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122163.msg1286199#new

aboroth00

Ouch Marvda... Way to kill a guy's wallet. The DM's aren't too hard to drive and you can get away with a lot lower wattage especially considering the room size. Great options such as Parasound, B&K in the price range. I'm a little partial to the older Rotel/NAD integrateds or yesteryear as you can pick those up for ~200-300 and use them as the preamp or amp when you decide to upgrade.

aboroth00

DSkip wrote: »

What is a hybrid preamp? I understand the hybrid integrated, but I guess I always assumed a preamp (or amp) was either SS or tube.

Doesn't exist.