Converting a friend from Bose - Let's start with speakers <$800

drummer86

Help me put together a nice system for a friend. Primary uses Classical music and movies pretty evenly split. Coming from a "2.1" Bose system powered by a Pioneer VSX-820. He understands that buying pieces over time is the best route to go and will probably wind up with a nice 2.1 or 3.1 in the end. I think I'll start him off with speakers then add a sub and quality receiver soon. His initial budget is about $1000 but would grow if spread out over several months to a year.

My initial list of things that are readily available (lsi9's would be here if I could find them):
Bookies
Focal 706V - $450
PSB Image B6 - $550
Monitor BX2 - $500
Monitor RX2 - $700
KEF Q300 - $500
Ascend CMT-340 - $600
HTD Level 3 - $300

Towers:
Focal 814V - $700
HTD Level 3 - $800
Rti A5 - $650
maybe some others I can't think of right now...

Sub will likely be something from HSU, SVS, PSA, or Rhythmik
Receiver likely Marantz or Pioneer Elite SC

Help me narrow this list down or suggest some better options. He'll probably look to purchase within the next few weeks. Other suggestions on best way to spend the budget are also welcome.

AsSiMiLaTeD

You have the PSB and KEF models on your list of bookies, I'd add those to your list of towers as well. Then I would say those are my favorites on each list and it comes down to what sound he prefers, the KEF being slightly laid back and the PSB being slightly more forward sounding, though neither are far from neutral.

drummer86

I heard that Ushers were really picky about amplification. Any truth to this? This setup will be driven by a pretty straightforward receiver. I doubt he'll be interested in going through tube amps to get the most out of a living room setup.

drummer86

Thanks Assimilated. I considered those but they both push the budget to the max. When adding a nice sub is he really going to get much more than the bookshelf versions would offer out of the towers?

I was looking at Q500s and Image T6s. Is that what you were suggesting?

drummer86

nbrowser wrote: »

RTI A3 comes to mind, with good power and a decent sub...they rock quite well.

I'm afraid "rock" really isn't what he's looking for. Looking for something dynamic and accurate. Won't the "theater" tweeters in the RitA's be a bit harsh for classical?

drummer86

DSkip wrote: »

Picky wouldn't be the word I'd use. They do like and sound best on high current though (much more than high wattage), which is why tube amps usually apply. What kind of receiver is he looking at? I've used the Marantz 2216 on mine and you'd be shocked at how good it sounded.

Based on what he is looking for - dynamics and details - the Usher sound fits the bill nicely. If he has a lot of reflective surfaces, they may not be a good fit though. Any brighter speaker wouldn't be a good fit for that scenario.

He's a busy guy so I'm doing most of the looking/recommending for him. Since he wants to use the setup for movies as well I'll probably recommend something from Marantz or Pioneer Elite... although the Anthem MRX300 in the flea market is very tempting.

He does have hardwood floors and since he's pretty new at this I'm not sure he'll be willing to add the necessary room treatments to really bring the best from the setup... yet.

marvda1

get the wife/gf a nice rug for the floor. this would be killer for classical at $650.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-dali-ikon-2-mk-ii-2013-11-27-speakers-32324

drummer86

marvda1 wrote: »

get the wife/gf a nice rug for the floor. this would be killer for classical at $650.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-dali-ikon-2-mk-ii-2013-11-27-speakers-32324

Fortunately for him, he's got no WAF to deal with. A nice perk, but I'd be broke, hungry, and living in empty speaker boxes if it weren't for my other half lol

Dali's are killer for music for sure, but also extremely room picky. Finding a matching center would be a chore as all.

I'm not trying to sound ungrateful for the assistance so far. Keep em coming!

Irrenhaus

DSkip wrote: »

How about the Usher V603 that Doro is selling? Shouldn't need a sub with those if they're anything like the 6311.

+1 for Usher's

I just got a pair of 601 and love them.

cheers

aboroth00

Is he willing to purchase used? Depending on the space, a bookshelf and sub is the way to go to get the best bang for your buck, IMO. That is if you invest the time and effort to set up the system properly. ~800$ is a lot of money and will open things wide open if he's willing to consider used stand mounts.

aboroth00

DSkip wrote: »

Here is another thought since you're going to integrate a sub as well. Why not the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR as a nice starter speaker? Dirt cheap and great sound. This would allow more budget towards the rest of the rig, and while you are "skimping" on the speakers, you aren't skimping on the SQ. It would also allow him some room to move in a different direction if he so pleases with ease.

I'm actually of the reverse mentality. My priorities are speakers/sub > amp/preamp > everything else. I rather have nice speakers with a junk amp than the other way around. Let him choose speakers he likes then he can play around with augmenting the sound to the way he likes. Nice amps are easy to come by and relatively cheap but nice speakers OTOH not so much. I can probably live with a lot of amps but not the way around.

aboroth00

DSkip wrote: »

Have you heard the Pioneers?

Very fair point sir!

But I have heard speakers in the ~500$ used range and I can't imagine the pioneer's holding a candle to them. I just sold a fellow Polk member a pair of Revel M22's for ~500$. I very much doubt the Pioneer's would be anywhere near them. For not much more you can find heavy contenders in any price range.

drummer86

I think that's the first time I've ever posted a budget and had someone recommend something that costs a fraction of that budget haha. My suggestion was going to be bookies and a good sub and he was receptive to that idea. I doubt he's going to go for the Pioneers. He's of the mindset that if he's going to do something, he's going to do it right and will probably go a little over the top. Buying a set of "starter" speakers isn't really his M.O.

That being said, it is a huge nod to the Pioneers after I read your post comparing those Ushers, Totems, and Maggies a few weeks back that you would recommend them against a budget of $800.

I realize his receiver is pretty terrible so I guess the big question is: is it better to get some really nice speakers now and wait on better power or to split the budget between speakers and power? Either way, the little Bose speakers are going... although it might be hilarious to have them hooked to a killer Marantz/Pio Elite receiver for a few weeks.

marvda1

start with the pioneers, they won't hit your budget much. now keep saving up for better speakers past the $800 limit set now. when you do get the better speakers move the pioneers to the bedroom or office and not skip a beat.

aboroth00

nbrowser wrote: »

Yaknows, DSkip tried to sell me on vintage Pioneer speakers not long when I was searching for some a while back. in my short time here...I've put trust into him, never does he steer someone wrong that I've seen. and to this day I keep an eye out for those Pioneer speakers...one day I'll find a pair to audition....one day

I didn't mean anything by my remarks. I'm sure those speakers are of high quality but I'm just comparing them to the type of speakers that you can get on the used market in that price range. And phew... there are some mighty speakers I would like to own in that price bracket...

aboroth00

DSkip wrote: »

I gave Marvin a little hell for spending his money on them because he needed them like another hole in his head. When he brought them over last get-together, I think everyone there was VERY impressed by their performance. I've never heard a $100 pair of NEW speakers I'd recommend, but those are definitely hitting above their price point. If the OP's friend was a stickler for new, they would've been well worth the homework. Throwing them in a $800 used market puts them out of their league in many cases (which is above where I bought my 6311's), but they are the biggest bang for the buck in the market, especially for someone trying to get their footing in the hobby. Even at $800 new, they are outclassed, but the difference is not nearly as much as you'd think.



Thanks man, but honestly, I don't know which Pioneer's you're talking about. I did recommend the same bookies above to you for your second rig, but I've never recommended any vintage Pioneers because I have zero experience with any.

I wholeheartedly agree. You can get quality speaks for not much these days. I've recommended those Insignia's from bestbuy with the coax driver to people who are starting out getting their own separate system together instead of just a speaker in a box solution. You can get world class standmounts for ~800$ used of course. So i don't see the point of saving money when the market is wide open at that budget (just for speakers).

I think the best recommendation now is let that guy loose on some audio stores! Give him an education! That's the fun part, listening for free :P. Then he can get a grasp of how much he wants to spend vs. what quality he can hear. If he can hear and appreciate 800$ speakers then he needs some 800$ speakers! If not a much cheaper solution can be had to bide time until when he wants to upgrade. But I think we all know, we should spend as much as we can otherwise upgraditis will keep hitting especially with such speakers as the pioneer. They're certainly not lookers.

aboroth00

drummer86 wrote: »

I think that's the first time I've ever posted a budget and had someone recommend something that costs a fraction of that budget haha. My suggestion was going to be bookies and a good sub and he was receptive to that idea. I doubt he's going to go for the Pioneers. He's of the mindset that if he's going to do something, he's going to do it right and will probably go a little over the top. Buying a set of "starter" speakers isn't really his M.O.

That being said, it is a huge nod to the Pioneers after I read your post comparing those Ushers, Totems, and Maggies a few weeks back that you would recommend them against a budget of $800.

I realize his receiver is pretty terrible so I guess the big question is: is it better to get some really nice speakers now and wait on better power or to split the budget between speakers and power? Either way, the little Bose speakers are going... although it might be hilarious to have them hooked to a killer Marantz/Pio Elite receiver for a few weeks.

Any receiver can drive a competently designed speaker. If there are dips and peaks in the impedance curve then forget about it. Usually speakers like that are poorly designed or extremely expensive. I wouldn't bother with 4ohm nominal speakers that dip below that either with that receiver. To put it in perspective, I'm using an amp that is 30W @8ohms that won't at all double into 4ohm. You can pick up older NAD or Rotel integrated for not much at all.

NJPOLKER

I didn't see where Doro has a pair of Ushers for sale???

tonyb

aboroth00 wrote: »

Any receiver can drive a competently designed speaker. .

Respectfully disagree with this statement. Competence in speaker design does not equate to 8 ohm high efficiency easy to drive, every time. Any receiver ? C'mon man, think about that one.

HHStuart

How about LSi 15's? They are excellent for classical music.

tonyb

marvda1 wrote: »

start with the pioneers, they won't hit your budget much. now keep saving up for better speakers past the $800 limit set now. when you do get the better speakers move the pioneers to the bedroom or office and not skip a beat.

This ^^^......good advice.

Other bookies worthy of a look are Epos, Revel, Usher, AAD's but may be out of your price range. You also didn't mention if this is a house or apartment, size of the room this will be in.

WLDock

It won't be hard to surpass the Bose system.

KEF Q300 - http://www.nylaexpress.com/web/sitefiles/searchresults.asp?keyword=Q300&x=0&y=0 = $469.99
HSU STF-2 - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html - $319
Harmon Kardon HK3490 integrated - http://www.ebay.com - $250 or less

He could finally make the classics and movies come alive for a little over $1K for a 2.1 rig...then choose what direction to go after that? There are a million ways to get there.....what's the total budget going to be in a year? Maybe the system above is all wrong? Maybe a set of the new FOCAL Chorus 716 or 726 towers and a Odyssey Cyclops integrated is what he is after? or maybe a set of LSiM703's, LSiM706's center, SVS SB12-NSD sub, and an Elite SC AVR for $3K?

IMO, I think he needs to get his ear on at least two or three of the speakers that you guy are looking at , set a budget then go from there.

4xoddic

Does your friend have shelves for bookshelf speakers?

I found that aesthetically speaking, attractive stands quickly brought the $ of bookshelf speakers ~ = towers.

Irrenhaus

tonyb wrote: »

This ^^^......good advice.

Other bookies worthy of a look are Epos, Revel, Usher, AAD's but may be out of your price range. You also didn't mention if this is a house or apartment, size of the room this will be in.

I have to agree here. When I started again with My HT I got the Pioneers for a killer deal at BB. I got the early version with round metal grills for each driver. You cannot find another speaker that good on that price range and were easy to drive with my Pio avr.

Now they are in the garage for some music when working out there.

Cheers

WLDock

4xoddic wrote: »

Does your friend have shelves for bookshelf speakers?

I found that aesthetically speaking, attractive stands quickly brought the $ of bookshelf speakers ~ = towers.

I agree. There are so many speakers in the marketplace today that there is always a tower in the price range of a good bookshelf + nice stands. These Swan D-stands at $119 a set seem like a nice low cost wood stand option:

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?c=accessories&p=d-stands&cPath=28&products_id=44&osCsid=4644001118072d4045a0615554a5d446

drummer86

HHStuart wrote: »

How about LSi 15's? They are excellent for classical music.

Definitely a consideration but they're not easily found and would likely need a new receiver/amp combo right off the bat.

drummer86

I agree that the Pioneer route is great advice, and I completely understand why it was suggested. However, it's not something this dude will go for. He knows his Bose is crap (got it as a hand-me-down), and that just about anything will be an improvement, but he wants to make giant leaps here and be done for quite a while. He's coming over Friday night to spin some disks on my Totems, a friend's B&Ws, an old pair of Monitor 30s, and some PSB Image B6s. That should get us started in the right direction...

drummer86

DSkip wrote: »

Have you looked at any Vienna Acoustics? Very laid back and easy to drive - might be a REALLY good option for him and his untreated room.

No, I haven't but I've heard of them.

UPDATE: I mentioned to him about turning an unused bedroom into a 2-channel room and he loved the idea. Room is about 12x12 and basic treatments would be able to be made. Will likely go with a pair of bookies, possibly a sub, and a decent integrated or receiver. He's looking at these:
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-psb-imagine-b-bookshelf-speakers-2013-11-19-speakers-03106-hooksett-nh

Seem like a good buy to me but Skip has me wondering about Viennas. Where should I start with them?

aboroth00

I would honestly spend as close to 800$ as possible. At around ~800 you start dipping into the Dynaudio Focus/Excite lines, Revel Performa line. If he wants to save couple bucks then the Dynaudio Audience/DM lines are great hitters with great bass even without a sub. The Ascend Sierra is also a great option around this price.

However, if you budge a little further you can start touching stuff from smaller companies such as Tyler, Salk, Selah https://app.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-tyler-acoustics-taylo-reference-monitors-in-light-maple-2013-11-27-speakers-32174.

HHStuart

drummer86 wrote: »

Definitely a consideration but they're not easily found and would likely need a new receiver/amp combo right off the bat.

I've got some LSI 15's I could let go of for $700 for the pair. He might have to come to Boston to pick them up, however, as shipping would add quite a bit. I have a brand new PSW 505 new in the box I could let go for $100 also but again, shipping would be expensive.

WLDock

drummer86 wrote: »

... He's coming over Friday night to spin some disks on my Totems, a friend's B&Ws, an old pair of Monitor 30s, and some PSB Image B6s. That should get us started in the right direction...

Now that sounds like the best route for the guy.

aboroth00 mentioned the Salk line. I think that is one to look out for as well but might be hard to find a set to listen to....there is a lot of feedback out there and comparisons to the Ascend Sierras. The Song Bird or Song Surround sound like the best match for the small room. Been reading so much good feedback and hope to get a listen soon myself....and the finishes look outstanding in the pictures.