Are there any NEW speakers about 3K that will BEAT SDA/SRS speakers??

PolkieMan

No others speakers do SDA.
Some could maybe sound better to some people but they still are not SDA.
If you like SDA then you buy SDA and use them that way.

ZLTFUL

Habanero Monk wrote: »

I would have to get ears on but given the description that the OP gave I think a line array would be something for consideration.

I am not arguing with you. Why exactly is it that you think every time I comment on one of your posts you think I am arguing?
I said line arrays are indeed a good idea...but that specific one is an exercise in futility. Given the driver options available, they picked 2 of the biggest compromises for that project.
If they had bumped the price a mere $150, they could have stepped it up and gotten a much better 4" driver that would have covered most of the gaps in sound that were missing. Plus I think the crossover is a compromise itself.

I am not arguing that line arrays are a good or bad idea. I think that they are a good modern (funny when you consider the line array technology was developed in the 40s for sonar) iteration of what the SDAs were trying to accomplish. But there are much more complete ways of going about it for only slightly more money. THAT'S all I was alluding to.

drumminman

cnh wrote: »

. . . Yeah, there's a little more detail, but it is often sharp and disturbing to my ears. Perhaps one can pick out the instruments a little better in a wide soundstage which often sounds a bit too "artificial" to me. Maybe notes decay fast, too fast, FASTER than a guitar string actually "fades" away. I find that young ears think hearing something that is pristinely clear means its more authentic even when it does NOT sound so if you spent a little more time comparing it to live sound. It's EASY to impress the "analytic" listening crowd because their sense of "music" is not "musical", is devoid of feeling and awe. They spend all of their time trying to see if they can distinguish a snare drum from a slower drum and think somehow, that is "critical" listening when no one in their right mind listens to a LIVE concert that way unless they're nuts and really don't want to "experience" the magic that is live music where the "mind" fades away and the self, and what it feels, are transported to another time and place outside of this world, outside the anal baggage of the analytic mind where they almost "touch" the origin of creation and lose themselves and their thoughts for a moment and become "one" with the music that is passing through them, carrying them away.
cnh

This is a wonderful articulation of my sound quality preferences and how I listen to music first, the reproduction system second. My basis of comparison is always live sound - how does what you're hearing from your rig compare? Is it tonally correct (both instruments and voices); does it have the proper balance of lows-mids-highs; how about transients - does the sound of the stick on cymbals have a metallic attack followed by the shimmer and decay of whatever brand the drummer is playing (paiste sounds different from Zildjian or Sabian); does the initial attack and then decay pluck of stringed instruments mimic the sound of standing in front of someone playing; how about piano - a notoriously difficult instrument to record and reproduce. Can you hear the notes in the chords, do they bloom and fill out as they decay? During complex passages does the sound become congested, or do all the instruments blend yet retain their sonic character? And how about soundstage - does the music sound like it's coming from pin point locations (to me that's a very artificial quality) or does it fill the room as in a live setting?

Above all else does the sound of a rig (speakers, source components, cables) convey the emotion of a performance? For me all the technical stuff above is important, but if this last quality is missing I need to work out what changes I need to make in order to make it happen. I moved from Def Tech BP30's with fully modded outboard Xovers (mills, Sonicaps, Alphacore ribbon inductors) to my 2.3TL's, and feel that listening to recorded music comes much closer to my ideal.

Of course, this is only my take on how to put a system together.

Dawgfish

naturallight wrote: »

Dawg...I don't look at craigs or ebay all the time, i just don't have the money for them right now.

Plus i don't have a car that would even fit them. In Oct, November..when i do have the money..and i do find a set in GA. I would be happy to pay you to pick them up and drive them here....

I can do that! Just pay for beer.........and gas ;-) Seriously though, if Im around I'll be glad to help out.

Mr. Bubbles

F1nut wrote: »

One of the best posts I've read here in a while.

I agree that the post is great in describing what Cnh describes. I too enjoy my vintage Marantz gear which tends to be warm and not quite as detailed as some other. I also enjoy other things as well.

Some listeners do not enjoy "Live" sound" That being said let me describe why I personally am not really after the live sound. I listen to Rock and Roll primarily, much of it heavy, some with jazzy or blues influences. Lets face it; it sounds like crap live. It's exciting to go to a concert and be in the middle of the crowd. The total experience is awesome (sometimes), but from a sound standpoint, it kind of sucks. if I were more of a jazz, classical, etc fan this feeling may be different. This is very much like going to the movies. It's nice to go to the theater sometimes, but from a sound standpoint, the theater does not come close to the sound I get from my HT. Listening position has a lot to do with it as well. Some people do not enjoy or even have the ability to sit in that sweet spot for extended periods of time. I am currently going through this and am weighing how the SDA's fit my life right now. I just don't have much opportunity to simply sit and listen a lot currently. When i do i enjoy the music reproduced closer to how the artists felt it should sound when they mixed it in the studio. That sound is how the artists/ produces feel it should sound (not a live sound). At least that's my take on it from my friends and experiences in the music industry. For this reason I prefer (for the most part) a very accurate , detailed sound with strong dynamic capability (if the recording calls for it), that is capable of reacting quickly to the transients in the recording. Classic rock like Floyd, Zepplin, Stones, Aerosmith, some AC/DC many times does not require this detail as it was not recorded into the music in the studio.

This is only a few things to consider for the OP. As Cnh and others have made some great points. The listener must determine the answer to their question for them self in how they will listen, their listening space, the type of music they prefer, and many other things. Good luck either way.

Face

Of course better drivers are available now. But, none are a direct drop in and they would all need new crossover designs.

deronb1

The goldenear triton twos have had good.reviews

SolidSqual

Sorry if these figures were already provided. I know they were alluded to. Good food for thought. Would be very cool if Polk went back to their reference roots.

SDA-SRS - circa 1985 prices.

$3,000 of 1985 dollars would be worth: $6,521.74 in 2013

$3,000 of 2013 dollars would be worth $1,380.00 in 1985

Habanero Monk

ZLTFUL wrote: »

I am not arguing with you. Why exactly is it that you think every time I comment on one of your posts you think I am arguing?
I said line arrays are indeed a good idea...but that specific one is an exercise in futility. Given the driver options available, they picked 2 of the biggest compromises for that project.
If they had bumped the price a mere $150, they could have stepped it up and gotten a much better 4" driver that would have covered most of the gaps in sound that were missing. Plus I think the crossover is a compromise itself.

I am not arguing that line arrays are a good or bad idea. I think that they are a good modern (funny when you consider the line array technology was developed in the 40s for sonar) iteration of what the SDAs were trying to accomplish. But there are much more complete ways of going about it for only slightly more money. THAT'S all I was alluding to.

Who's arguing? I agree with what you posted and stated that I would have to get ears on My second sentence was simply given the SDA reputation for how it produces sound that a line array may be something to look at.

I found nothing confrontational about your perfectly valid response and nothing about my agreeing with you (need to hear them first).

naturallight

Thanks Dawg for the kind offer. I live just west of Atlanta. If a set of SRS does come up for sale, in the oct,nov, dec time frame, more then likely it will be in a 50 mile radius of Atlanta. Right now i have a mustang convertible, which i 'm lucky if i can fit the groceries in...LOL

It's really just going to depend on how long i can wait...LOL 3 months is probably max, i'm not the most patient guy when it comes to money burning a hole in my pocket. I will probably cave, and upgrade the 1C's. Now granted, there not the best SDA's made, but there also strange, in the fact there very room dependent as to what your going to get out of them. I've had these since new, I've had them in a number of houses and a bunch of different rooms. I'll be honest, they have NEVER, EVER sounded this good. Before i finished this music room, i had them upstairs in a small normal size room..pretty much i was willing to call it a day with them, at that point. I figured there almost 30 years old, everything has to be rebuilt..not worth the time and money. But as it turns out..not the case.

When i finished the music room, i already had a set of "supposed" great Tower speakers on order. NOT cheap. I moved everything down there, set it all up..bottom line, the 1C's wiped the floor with these. My first try at a "tower" speaker..I figured..ok..this is all wrong...I need really BIG tower speakers..LOL Must go back to Polk. RTi 12's...thats what i need...3 7" bass drivers...thats going to kick my butt. Now the 1C's don't come out and literally wipe the floor with the 12's. They are in fact very good speakers for 2 channel music..IF you have the right equipment to push them, and tubes in the mix does not hurt. The 12's put out a nice sound-stage. BUT..in the end, the 1C's just win out again.

The 12's just can not put out the sound stage the 1C's can, they also just can't dig as deep as the 1C's.

You would think that really can't be..but it does and you can hear it..



Now why the 1C's turned into almost new sounding speakers.....It has to be the room. Now the room is only 13 feet wide, but is close to 30 feet deep...the 1C's are firing into the 30 foot long room, and i'm sitting about 14 feet back or so. Now i'm rambling on about this, and i'm sure nobody wants to hear it..LOL But, i'll give it probably 3 month to find an SRS , then i'll probably redo the 1C's.

polkfarmboy

Only thing that your gona get under 3k to rival the sound is a pair of headphones :loneranger:

vmaxer

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Only thing that your gona get under 3k to rival the sound is a pair of headphones :loneranger:

Get good ones though!!

dcoil

Well, my own $.02. I have a pair of original 2B's purchased 19 the late 1980's. I wanted to upgrade about 5 or 6 years ago and went 'speaker shopping' here in Houston. I didn't hear a lot of different speakers (4?), ranging in price from $8K to 15K. This was really a bit out of my price range, but I thought if I liked something I may be able to pick it up on the cheap used. I won't go into detail about what brands, but I auditioned these in nice studio setups running some high dollar electronics. Bottom line, some I liked the detail, some the 'quickness', etc. But what I never heard was music 'outside the speakers". Someone early said they didn't get much imaging from SDA's, but I get good imaging. Long story short, I then picked-up a pair of SRS's and started in on the mods. I can't say enough about all the helpful people on this forum - simply amazing! The mods have surpassed by far my expectation of what musical enjoyment these speakers could provide. Whether it's Smooth Jazz, pop, or rock, I take a turn with them 4 or 5 evenings every week. Bottom line, I wouldn't trade even-up for any of the speakers I auditioned. I know musical enjoyment is subjective - but listening to the imaging and wide sound stage, sometimes seemingly in a 180* stage of performers, is simply mind blowing. As close to a 'real in my house concert' as I can imagine. I know musical enjoyment is very subjective, and as they say 'your mileage may vary'. But I can hardly wait to take another turn...

deronb1

That was me who mentioned about a lack of imaging. They imaged wonderfully when i was using a pre and amp combo for 2ch. It was when i went to using my avr as a pre is when i lost some imaging. I reran mcacc and fiddled with some settings and i am getting proper imaging now. Love the modded 2Bs

PolkieMan

Yea if you like Sda speakers like I do there is nothing that comes close for me either. Now if someone was to start making Sda again, maybe.
dcoil?
Houston well we are almost neighbors

dcoil wrote: »

Well, my own $.02. I have a pair of original 2B's purchased 19 the late 1980's. I wanted to upgrade about 5 or 6 years ago and went 'speaker shopping' here in Houston. I didn't hear a lot of different speakers (4?), ranging in price from $8K to 15K. This was really a bit out of my price range, but I thought if I liked something I may be able to pick it up on the cheap used. I won't go into detail about what brands, but I auditioned these in nice studio setups running some high dollar electronics. Bottom line, some I liked the detail, some the 'quickness', etc. But what I never heard was music 'outside the speakers". Someone early said they didn't get much imaging from SDA's, but I get good imaging. Long story short, I then picked-up a pair of SRS's and started in on the mods. I can't say enough about all the helpful people on this forum - simply amazing! The mods have surpassed by far my expectation of what musical enjoyment these speakers could provide. Whether it's Smooth Jazz, pop, or rock, I take a turn with them 4 or 5 evenings every week. Bottom line, I wouldn't trade even-up for any of the speakers I auditioned. I know musical enjoyment is subjective - but listening to the imaging and wide sound stage, sometimes seemingly in a 180* stage of performers, is simply mind blowing. As close to a 'real in my house concert' as I can imagine. I know musical enjoyment is very subjective, and as they say 'your mileage may vary'. But I can hardly wait to take another turn...

adb3da

You should be able to find a pair of Legacy Focus 20/20 for about $3k. You just have to
Be patient and buy them as fast as you can. My buddy has a pair and they are fabulous.

DarqueKnight

naturallight wrote: »

The sad point to this rant..I can't find NEW speakers..within a 3K range that will just beat close to 25+ year old SDA/SRS speakers.

You didn't believe me when I said SDA's were at least 20 years ahead of their time?

SolidSqual wrote: »

I'd love to hear your setup someday then. Must be amazing. I like the tone of SDAs, but I would not call the imaging pinpoint ever.

It depends on the mods you do and the quality of the electronics driving them. My 1.2TL's have pinpoint imaging.

nooshinjohn

As do mine DK... It has been amazing to listen to music on these after the upgrades were completed and hear how much better they became. They image so well that sometimes I swear I can smell a young Dolly Parton's perfume wafting through the air as she sings.:cool:

mantis

Dynaudio Audience 82's
B&W CDM9NT's
Totem Forest
Magnepan 1.7's
Paradigm Studio 60's
Definitive Technology Mythos STS
B&W CM9's
Revel F112's

I could easily go on and on about speakers 3k and under that I feel are much better then any SDA made speakers. I do however love the SDA models and think they bring a lot to the table even after all these years. They are remarkable sounding speakers and I agree , they where ahead of their time. We get them in every swap sale and I find myself listening to them a lot and more then others that come in.
Speakers are to personal to say they are better then this or that.

naturallight

Mantis, your speaker choices are not out of line for sure...LOL If i could not give up the SDA "effect"

The speaker that may come close is the Definitive Technology stuff. The BP-8080ST i think would be a better speaker for me as compared to the Mythos, as that is not a BP design. The 12" built in "sub" with the 2 PR's should give you the bass, and dig deep. From the reviews on them, if you want more bass, buy a large set of the dual 15"CV's and call it a day..LOL These speakers seem to do a lot of things right (at least from the reviews) But hearing them is another story, and better yet hearing them in MY music room, is the only thing that counts. It is always really nice to have brand new speakers delivered to your door. If they have a try out period on them say 30 days, and you can return them if you don't like them, then may be something i would consider. Pretty much just looking at the design layout and number of active drivers in these speakers, they "should" beat the 1C's into the ground.

But i've said that before, on tower type speakers and it just has not happened.

naturallight

To be honest, the more i look at the DT BP-8080ST speakers, i'm kind of interested.

Does anybody have these speakers or at least, have heard them? If so what your take on them??

leroyjr1

The Mythos are more musical than the BP series.

naturallight

Well, if i was to throw up my hands and say..can't find a decent set of SRS's...plus the fact , as soon as i get them, have to take them apart for upgrades. I would be looking for something that at least gave me the SDA "type" sound stage. Now maybe, MAYBE..the DT bp-8080st MIGHT give me something close. But thats a long shot guess pretty much. I have never heard them so i don't know. There are not alot of stereo mag reviews on these or the Mythos. But the stereo mags never really tell you much. They never trash anything, and half the time use music i've never heard of, so there comments about that music, is useless, at least to me. You do find user reviews, but again, these people just spent 3K on a set of speakers, so there not about to trash them.

You do get some musicians who review these. On the 8080 speaker there was a bass player, and a drummer who reviewed them. They felt that they could tell what gear the players were using, and thought it was a very "accurate" presentation. Now i don't find fault with that. I'm a musician, and i can tell what guitar or amp there using (to a certain degree) if it's not a over blown presentation, with 20 effects on it. These were Rock musicians, ( which i am one of)... I also think that your choice of speaker, needs to be alot about the music YOU want to hear..not what other people might like.



I tend to play Classic rock, Rock, Blues, then jump to Symphonies, plus i play this pretty loud.

If i wanted to listen to string quartets, i would not even be looking at these speakers.



Speakers are pretty much a compromise..they do X amount right. That depends on the speaker and what you, as the listener is looking for them to do right. Musicians tend to look for speakers that will reproduce the music they play. It doesn't have to do everything 100% right, but has to be close.



Now if i was a concert pianist, i would not even be looking at these speakers. But as a rock, blues guitar player..may not be far off the mark. The first words out of a rock musician is going to be where is the bass. Tower speakers for the most part..just can not give you the bass. The RTi 12's even with the 3 7" drivers..they give you bass, but the SDA1C's just dig deeper and lower.



The 8080st's with the 12" sub, and 2 PR's..dig deep..probably why these musicians like them.



This is not a statement that the 8080's are better or worse then the Mythos, or even close to a set of SRS. Just a generalized statement about what i would expect out of the speakers.

mantis

naturallight wrote: »

To be honest, the more i look at the DT BP-8080ST speakers, i'm kind of interested.

Does anybody have these speakers or at least, have heard them? If so what your take on them??

I was going to put them on my list but decided on the Mythos STS. The STS is a super clean musical speaker , I personally own the Mythos ST and love them. I have had them for several years now and I have shopped around for other speakers as I'm always in search of the right speaker. The ST for years now have filled that role well.

The BP8080ST is an amazing speaker. I have Installed them many times and found that they are a truly a remarkable achievement in Def Tech's BP series. Years ago the BP line IMO sounded bright and heavy down low. These new models have a more Mythos sound with more powerful bass. The last job I did with them made me question my Mythos ST. What I have found with them is the power in the low end. They dig deep and hard very hard. They do however take some time to setup properly but with having 2 sub's , it make tuning a room magical.

I think these are a very good choice to check out. They do however require as any good speakers do , good clean power. They will not sound as good on lower quality gear.
They are priced right and at full retail , they are a steal. They really sound clear , warm and very powerful. You can really get out of control with the bass.

WLDock

naturallight wrote: »

The 8080st's with the 12" sub, and 2 PR's..dig deep..probably why these musicians like them. This is not a statement that the 8080's are better or worse then the Mythos, or even close to a set of SRS. Just a generalized statement about what i would expect out of the speakers.

It seems the Golden Ear Technology Triton 2 receives the same feedback on regarding the low end(yet VERY MIXED feedback overall) being(same designer) and rated 16 Hz - 35 kHz freq response and testing at 30 Hz to 20 kHz ±3.2 dB. At $2500 these seem interesting....especially with the folded ribbon tweets....been wanting to hear these for awhile.

mantis

WLDock wrote: »

It seems the Golden Ear Technology Triton 2 receives the same feedback on regarding the low end(yet VERY MIXED feedback overall) being(same designer) and rated 16 Hz - 35 kHz freq response and testing at 30 Hz to 20 kHz ±3.2 dB. At $2500 these seem interesting....especially with the folded ribbon tweets....been wanting to hear these for awhile.

Gonna have to 2nd that , I have been wanting to hear them as well. I haven't had a chance to go check them out. I have heard many good things about them.

naturallight

Mantis, good info. I'd like to know if the bi-polar sound out of the BP-8080st's is anything like an SDA sound-stage. I know they have to sit at least 2 feet off the back wall for any of this to work. I "assume" you would really want this firing strait ahead. If you toe them in, that would mess with the back firing drivers. But thats a guess.

Face

No, they're not "SDA like". In your typical living room, they will sound a little more "spacious" though. In a lively room, don't even consider them. Nothing is "SDA like" but SDA's.

F1nut

mantis wrote: »

I could easily go on and on about speakers 3k and under that I feel are much better then any SDA made speakers. I do however love the SDA models and think they bring a lot to the table even after all these years. They are remarkable sounding speakers and I agree , they where ahead of their time. We get them in every swap sale and I find myself listening to them a lot and more then others that come in.

Double talk much?

Speakers are to personal to say they are better then this or that.

Yet, you just did.

naturallight

Well there's a resounding NO from Face...LOL The bi-polar design in theory, would seem to hold merit. But not alot of companies have jumped on that bandwagon, DT for some reason sticks with it, and has had 20 years to get it right by this time. Now i know the back firing drivers are cut down a few DB from the fronts, if there is some type of time delay built into this, not sure.

It would seem..in "theory" to give you a more open ,airy, spacious soundstage. But not having heard them, i can't say.



How Polk did this with the SDA's..don't know. Lets forget about the CD's that really shine with the SDA "effect"..lets take stock, not so "sda"friendly cd's. Now even on those the soundstage again is very open , airy..and large. It would be pretty depressing to have the DT's shipped here. Then bring out the 30 year old 1C's, and they end up to have a better soundstage...



Now i don't know if that would happen. But as Face says..there is Nothing like the SDA sound...