Are there any NEW speakers about 3K that will BEAT SDA/SRS speakers??

naturallight

Now let me say these speakers have to BEAT the SDA/SRS in all respects. Not just well there more "accurate" in the mids, or highs, type of deal. I'm talking the whole picture here. NO subs..no nothing.

Lets say were not talking a CD that is really SDA "effect " friendly..your stock basic rock cd. Now the sound stage the 1C's put out is very open and large even on this type CD...so it has to come close to that.

Now i have tried a few NEW tower stuff...does not come close to the bass, or the open sound stage of even the 1C's. Now you get parts and pieces, that may be better..but overall..don't cut it. Now I'm a BIG Polk fan..I've had nothing but Polk speakers for the last 30 years. Now to be blunt..i would be happy as a clam if i could call up Polk...have them ship me a set of LSiM 707 off the ebay site and call it a day. BUT i don't see it. I can probably come up with the 3200 or so for those....but I don't see them working.

The only things i see working, are once again..old LARGE speakers. Infinity Kappa stuff (large), Bozak (large) maybe some Klipsh, maybe some Legacy Focus speakers, but don't think i could get them used for 3K, the bass would be there but not sure about the rest. The sound stage may or may not be great, don't know on those, never heard them.



The sad point to this rant..I can't find NEW speakers..within a 3K range that will just beat close to 25+ year old SDA/SRS speakers.



I have no clue what to say about this, except for the fact ....maybe old and BIG is just better...LOL

F1nut

Are there any NEW speakers about 3K that will BEAT SDA/SRS speakers??

The short answer, no.

Mystery

naturallight wrote: »

Are there any NEW speakers about 3K that will BEAT SDA/SRS speakers??

May be they are out there but it'll be pretty tough to try all of them and compare to decide if they beat SDA/SRS.

For me, it doesn't matter as I'm not going to spend anywhere close to that new or used. :eek:

May be 3K spent on used speakers instead should buy some very nice speakers.

SolidSqual

F1nut wrote: »

The short answer, no.

Haha

leroyjr1

Short answer, yes.

SolidSqual

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Short answer, yes.

^+1!

Got my new Revels for $3660 from D-Sonic, authorized dealer.

BlueFox

Are you saying that in today's dollars the SDA/SRS speakers would cost 3K? I forgot what I paid for my SDA-2s back in the late 1980s.

naturallight

Well thats a great answer Leroyjr1......BUT what would those speakers be????

leroyjr1

naturallight wrote: »

Well thats a great answer Leroyjr1......BUT what would those speakers be????

It all depends on your preference. I can't tell you what you'd like. I found my speaker preference but that only comes with getting your ears on different brands. It's kind of hard to find your end all speaker if you're not listening to any.

SolidSqual

Gallo 3.5 can be had for about $2650 NEW today.

Gallo Strada plus two TR-3D will put you at right about $3k.

Magnepan 1.7 and [Name your Thousand Dollar Sub]

Magnepan MMG and Seaton Sound Submersive HP! Just a bit over $3k

SolidSqual

And yes, I've heard several pairs of SDAs, including the big boys. All well-powered and setup.

F1nut

I've heard a whole lot of speakers over the years, everything from sub $1k to the upper double digits. The only one that came close to the tone, balance and pin point imaging of my SDA's was a $30k pair of Sonus Faber. You can't beat a classic!

naturallight

No, im not fixated on the SDA"effect" thing..in fact i said playing a CD that was NOT SDA friendly. NO again, i'm not unwilling to spend the money for a set of SRS's..just never had the money before to do it..in Oct. i should have. The overall sound stage from SDA type speakers is differant.granted..the RTi 12's i have, the sound stage is not bad, maybe something i could live with. But the fact the rest of the speaker is lacking, doesn't work. The fact that most speakers don't dig deep, and give you the bass...now thats a problem for me. If 12's can't do that, i'm not sure any "Tower" speaker can.

If the 12's can't beat even the 1C's..then there is a basic problem. Now 3K is about the max i could spend, but i'm sure not paying that outright for a set of SRS....that would be after upgrades and all is done. Now if i didn't have to do upgrades, and just find a set of NEW speakers that will best the SDA/SRS..that would be great. BUT..I just don't see it.

SolidSqual

F1nut wrote: »

I've heard a whole lot of speakers over the years, everything from sub $1k to the upper double digits. The only one that came close to the tone, balance and pin point imaging of my SDA's was a $30k pair of Sonus Faber. You can't beat a classic!

I'd love to hear your setup someday then. Must be amazing. I like the tone of SDAs, but I would not call the imaging pinpoint ever.

nooshinjohn

F1nut wrote: »

I've heard a whole lot of speakers over the years, everything from sub $1k to the upper double digits. The only one that came close to the tone, balance and pin point imaging of my SDA's was a $30k pair of Sonus Faber. You can't beat a classic!

This...

The Big Magnapans do a damn fine job as well, but they also require far more living space than the 1.2TL's to sound their best. The TL's stand just 5 inches off the back wall, whereas the MG-20s needed to be at least 5 feet out into the room, which is simply not practical for most of us. They also seem to be far more demanding of quality source components than the big Polks, though each sounds better if you improve other aspects of the chain.

The 707's are very good, but are extremely sensitive to placement and source. When it comes to all around performance and being somewhat forgiving of source and placement issues, The SDA's are so very easy to live with. Being able to live with the wife however is another issue.

leroyjr1

F1nut wrote: »

I've heard a whole lot of speakers over the years, everything from sub $1k to the upper double digits. The only one that came close to the tone, balance and pin point imaging of my SDA's was a $30k pair of Sonus Faber. You can't beat a classic!

Are you running the original $50 drivers? Or is there an upgrade out there?

Habanero Monk

I was looking at Don Keele's CBT Line Arrays as my next upgrade since I already have a sub. It would run about $3K after DSP based active cross over and another amp.

SDA1C

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Are you running the original $50 drivers? Or is there an upgrade out there?

I've asked this one before and not gotten a response. There has to be a titanium cone something or other that can up the originals or the new replacements but I think its going to push into the 300 per range.

cnh

Obviously a $50 driver in 1980 something is not a $50 dollar driver today. Far from it. And then there is the "configuration" the design and implementation of the WHOLE not just the "sum of its parts". Either way 2.3lts and 1.2lts, I believe sold for between $2500-$3500 a pair NEW back in the '80s. So is it really fair to compare a set of $3000 dollar speakers to something that would be two to three times their value "today".
? Or are we just to believe, and somewhat naively, I add, that speaker tech has improved "phenomenally" since that time? I say maybe it has in the most expensive models--as Jesse describes above. But I've heard plenty of speakers in that 2-4000 dollar range and I am NOT blown away with most of what I am hearing. Yeah, there's a little more detail, but it is often sharp and disturbing to my ears. Perhaps one can pick out the instruments a little better in a wide soundstage which often sounds a bit too "artificial" to me. Maybe notes decay fast, too fast, FASTER than a guitar string actually "fades" away. I find that young ears think hearing something that is pristinely clear means its more authentic even when it does NOT sound so if you spent a little more time comparing it to live sound. It's EASY to impress the "analytic" listening crowd because their sense of "music" is not "musical", is devoid of feeling and awe. They spend all of their time trying to see if they can distinguish a snare drum from a slower drum and think somehow, that is "critical" listening when no one in their right mind listens to a LIVE concert that way unless they're nuts and really don't want to "experience" the magic that is live music where the "mind" fades away and the self, and what it feels, are transported to another time and place outside of this world, outside the anal baggage of the analytic mind where they almost "touch" the origin of creation and lose themselves and their thoughts for a moment and become "one" with the music that is passing through them, carrying them away.

As for the analytic boys and girls. Give it a try some time. Try to hear the music, NOT simply it's individual parts, instruments, voices, etc. Hear the "totality". It's awesome! More than the "sum" of any of its parts or individual "drivers" for that matter?

In conclusion; the MOST TECHNICALLY advanced speaker systems are NOT necessarily the most pleasing or "musical". There is not a great correlation between technology and perfect sound because of the subjective element--the listener, you! We cannot remove you and your "ears" from the equation and we have no way of knowing exactly what your ears will actually "hear"! Kind of puts a little damper on the pure tech thesis. No?

cnh

bsoko2

JTR speakers!

SDA1C

cnh wrote: »

Obviously a $50 driver in 1980 something is not a $50 dollar driver today. Far from it.

cnh

Given this statement^^^I wonder what the 50$ today driver would have cost then and how it plays into the cost of the now vs. the cost of replacement then.? Is that to say the drivers then are two to three times cheaper then? Saying Polk used 15 dollar drivers in 3k speakers?

ZLTFUL

Habanero Monk wrote: »

I was looking at Don Keele's CBT Line Arrays as my next upgrade since I already have a sub. It would run about $3K after DSP based active cross over and another amp.

I would HIGHLY recommend a different direction if you want to go line array. That particular kit is fantastic in its mediocrity. Don't get me wrong...the concepts and the execution are good but the drivers they used for it end up being like putting a Chevy V8 in a Ferrari.
It works...it even sounds pretty good on some music. But it never lives up to its potential.

I have a buddy who bought and assembled this kit. He ended up selling them to a mutual friend dirt cheap. But he then did a line array using the CBT as a baseline and using these Tang Band drivers with no separate tweeters and achieved a fantastic result. The overall sound was just fuller and the left/right dispersion was considerably better. The height/depth of the soundstage was identical.

cnh

SDA1C wrote: »

Given this statement^^^I wonder what the 50$ today driver would have cost then and how it plays into the cost of the now vs. the cost of replacement then.? Is that to say the drivers then are two to three times cheaper then? Saying Polk used 15 dollar drivers in 3k speakers?

15 dollars was worth a lot more in 1980 than it is today. Think about it. Polk can sell the 10 drivers in a set of M-70s for a little over 300 a pair in finished cabs with screens and still make some "profit". How much would you say a Monitor driver is worth in this scenario?

300/10 = 30 dollars a driver not counting the cabs, grills, crossovers, terminals, etc.? And ask Jesse about the "quality" of the doped mid-drivers in an old SDA speaker, see what he says?

Such debates are interminable. Because some people just love a particular kind of sound better than some of the latest and the greatest "today" has to offer. I know that I prefer a slightly less "detailed" more laid back, smooth, warm musical sound to an in your face everything you can hear sound (something you might hear on TOTL cans like Senn HD800s--too much all the time).

cnh

F1nut

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Are you running the original $50 drivers? Or is there an upgrade out there?

Of course, I'm using the original drivers as doped paper is still hard to beat.

WLDock

IMO, many speakers from that era had that big sound that was well suited for rock, R&B, Disco, etc....and the better ones could stage classical, jazz, etc.... Every decent system that I remember hearing back then had a BIG sound....Fond memories of my cousin's Fisher, Marantz setups....the SDA/SRS effect took it even further.
For $3000 today? Who is even doing the "BIG" sound still? Klipsch, JBL? The Synthesis is waay out there in price. Maybe a DIY design or kit? Myself, I always wanted a BIG set of speakers and want to build a set one day. Would love to hear how something like this sounds:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/SB12.3/
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/3-way-speaker-kits/zaph%7Caudio-sb12.3-sb-acoustics-12-dual-midrange-3-way/

F1nut

cnh wrote: »

Obviously a $50 driver in 1980 something is not a $50 dollar driver today. Far from it. And then there is the "configuration" the design and implementation of the WHOLE not just the "sum of its parts". Either way 2.3lts and 1.2lts, I believe sold for between $2500-$3500 a pair NEW back in the '80s. So is it really fair to compare a set of $3000 dollar speakers to something that would be two to three times their value "today".
? Or are we just to believe, and somewhat naively, I add, that speaker tech has improved "phenomenally" since that time? I say maybe it has in the most expensive models--as Jesse describes above. But I've heard plenty of speakers in that 2-4000 dollar range and I am NOT blown away with most of what I am hearing. Yeah, there's a little more detail, but it is often sharp and disturbing to my ears. Perhaps one can pick out the instruments a little better in a wide soundstage which often sounds a bit too "artificial" to me. Maybe notes decay fast, too fast, FASTER than a guitar string actually "fades" away. I find that young ears think hearing something that is pristinely clear means its more authentic even when it does NOT sound so if you spent a little more time comparing it to live sound. It's EASY to impress the "analytic" listening crowd because their sense of "music" is not "musical", is devoid of feeling and awe. They spend all of their time trying to see if they can distinguish a snare drum from a slower drum and think somehow, that is "critical" listening when no one in their right mind listens to a LIVE concert that way unless they're nuts and really don't want to "experience" the magic that is live music where the "mind" fades away and the self, and what it feels, are transported to another time and place outside of this world, outside the anal baggage of the analytic mind where they almost "touch" the origin of creation and lose themselves and their thoughts for a moment and become "one" with the music that is passing through them, carrying them away.

As for the analytic boys and girls. Give it a try some time. Try to hear the music, NOT simply it's individual parts, instruments, voices, etc. Hear the "totality". It's awesome! More than the "sum" of any of its parts or individual "drivers" for that matter?

In conclusion; the MOST TECHNICALLY advanced speaker systems are NOT necessarily the most pleasing or "musical". There is not a great correlation between technology and perfect sound because of the subjective element--the listener, you! We cannot remove you and your "ears" from the equation and we have no way of knowing exactly what your ears will actually "hear"! Kind of puts a little damper on the pure tech thesis. No?

cnh

One of the best posts I've read here in a while.

nooshinjohn

ZLTFUL wrote: »

I would HIGHLY recommend a different direction if you want to go line array. That particular kit is fantastic in its mediocrity. Don't get me wrong...the concepts and the execution are good but the drivers they used for it end up being like putting a Chevy V8 in a Ferrari.
It works...it even sounds pretty good on some music. But it never lives up to its potential.

I think the current generation of Chevy small-block is easily as good as a Ferrari V8. The ZL/1 is a monster, and there is nothing mediocre about it. I guess you could call it a "giant-killer".:cheesygrin:

ZLTFUL

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I think the current generation of Chevy small-block is easily as good as a Ferrari V8. The ZL/1 is a monster, and there is nothing mediocre about it. I guess you could call it a "giant-killer".:cheesygrin:

Not to completely derail this thread but my generic comparison was meant more as one of the V12 classics like a 250GT California and stuffing a 283 or 307 in it.

We can continue the "giant killer" discussion elsewhere because I sort of agree with you but I don't. Hehe

Dawgfish

If I were not going to run large SDAs, I would go with Maggie's and a good sub. Having said that, knowing the OPs listening preferences and reluctance of using subs, I would just get a pair of 1.2s, 2.3s, SRSs, even SRS 2s and be done with it.

Btw, to the OP, I've seen you mention that you can never find a pair of such speakers in the ATL area or nearby. I'm from the North GA area and see these come up for sale on a fairly common basis if you are willing to travel within a 300 mile radius to get the speakers. The key is to check your local Craigslist and/or Audiogon and the sorrounding areas. If you look, you'll find a pair soon enough.

naturallight

Dawg...I don't look at craigs or ebay all the time, i just don't have the money for them right now.

Plus i don't have a car that would even fit them. In Oct, November..when i do have the money..and i do find a set in GA. I would be happy to pay you to pick them up and drive them here....

Habanero Monk

ZLTFUL wrote: »

I would HIGHLY recommend a different direction if you want to go line array. That particular kit is fantastic in its mediocrity. Don't get me wrong...the concepts and the execution are good but the drivers they used for it end up being like putting a Chevy V8 in a Ferrari.
It works...it even sounds pretty good on some music. But it never lives up to its potential.

I have a buddy who bought and assembled this kit. He ended up selling them to a mutual friend dirt cheap. But he then did a line array using the CBT as a baseline and using these Tang Band drivers with no separate tweeters and achieved a fantastic result. The overall sound was just fuller and the left/right dispersion was considerably better. The height/depth of the soundstage was identical.

I would have to get ears on but given the description that the OP gave I think a line array would be something for consideration.