Where do you keep your front-firing sub?

echoofformless
echoofformless Posts: 28
I have always found it awkward that we are expected to place a sub off to the side somewhere when we can't have it right between the front speakers. A friend of mind mused that maybe a sub would be great right behind the couch where it will both be centered and also give some great rumble to the seating area.

But I am reticent to try this out because I feel like maybe some of the punch and articulation will be lost as the driver fires directly into such a thick, absorptive object like a couch. But then again I'm using Monitor 70's which can go pretty low on their own and my crossover is set at 60hz; so the sub in my case is generally just handling the very low bass in the first place.

So where do you all keep your front-firing subs? What sort of results have you had with moving them around the room?

FYI - I'm running a PSW 505
Post edited by echoofformless on

Comments

  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    edited June 2013
    Mine are front and center. Each is right next to the towers, which turns out to be the best two spots across the front wall I could find.

    Works well. It's a big room so I don't have pound you in the face bass, but makes for a very balanced sounding system.
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • echoofformless
    echoofformless Posts: 28
    edited June 2013
    Ah, but you are using two subs. I would do that if using two subs. I'm using one.
  • Syndil
    Syndil Posts: 1,582
    edited June 2013
    Sub placement is dependent on room acoustics, so there is no one answer that will work for everyone. I have a friend that has his sub next to his couch, as his room is small and that was really the only place it could go, but it is not optimal acoustically. Mainly because people sitting on the side of the couch next to the sub get a lot more boom than anyone else in the room.

    If you do put your sub closer to you than your fronts, I hope you have some sort of room correction available to you as you will need to add delay to it to compensate for the sound from the sub getting to your ears before your fronts.

    RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
    Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
    Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
    Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII
  • classic carl
    classic carl Posts: 635
    edited June 2013
    On each side of my front towers.
    Main System:
    Proton AA-1150 ~ Yamaha C-4 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Sennheiser HD600 ~ Monitor Audio Silver RS8 & FB210 ~ Martin Logan Dynamo ~ Teac R-919X ~ Marantz CD5003 ~ Squeezebox Classic ~ Music Hall dac25.2 ~ Dual 1229/Acutex M312 III STR ~ Music Hall mmf-5.1/Goldring 1012GX ~ Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0

    Home Theater:
    Vizio V585-H11 ~ Yamaha RX-V800 ~ Furman Elite-15 DMi ~ Marantz DV6001 ~ EPI M90 ~ Polk Audio RT35i ~ CS400i ~ (2) Polk Audio PSW450

  • echoofformless
    echoofformless Posts: 28
    edited June 2013
    Funny thing is that the long cord required to connect the sub to the receiver in order for it to be behind the couch creates the exact amount of delay that it needs.
  • Syndil
    Syndil Posts: 1,582
    edited June 2013
    Uh, no. The speed of propagation for electrons in an analog circuit approaches the speed of light. Unless your cable is several thousand miles long, it's not introducing any perceptible delay.

    RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
    Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
    Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
    Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII
  • bms
    bms Posts: 174
    edited August 2013
    I place my subs in the front corners of the room. The pb10 is front firing, but the 16-46 is a down firing cylinder. My room is huge with a vaulted ceiling and very open to other areas of the house (Ed Mullen described it as "lossy"). This configuration produces tons of room shaking bass when needed.
    bms
    Family Room:
    Onkyo TX-RZ920
    Outlaw 2200 monoblock amps x 3
    Sony UBP-X700
    Vizio M75-E1
    Polk LSiM 703's
    Polk LSiM 706
    Polk RTi6's
    Polk RTi4's
    Dual SVS PB13-Ultra’s
    PC13-Ultra

    Bonus Room:
    Onkyo TX-SR806
    PS3
    Panasonic TC-P42G10
    Polk RTi10's
    Polk CSi5
    Polk R50's
    SVS PB10-ISD

    For sale:
    Onkyo TX-SR603X
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,286
    edited August 2013
    There are some who use two subs who manage to position one behind the couch for the effect you are referring to. That depends a lot on the layout of the room and whether that second sub will reinforce the first or cancel it out.

    On another note. I have an old POLK PSW12 sub that was a BXXXH to place. Like its smaller brother the PSW10 it has a LOT of PORT noise once it gets going. And it is easy to over drive. This sub drove me nuts for months and the reviews on the Polk site were always lukewarm but I persevered and I found that the BEST placement for this sub was at a right angle firing across the plane of my L/C/R speakers from one wall to the other wall. In that position, what is considered a mediocre sub with a LOT of chuffing and port noise actually plays fairly nice! Who would have thunk it? There is something about this placement that cuts the port noise to almost none!

    So live and learn, and don't be afraid to try what is counter intuitive!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,310
    edited August 2013
    Behind a couch ? Absolute worse place to put a subwoofer. Play around with positioning the sub somewhere on the front stage in your room. Each room is different so what works for other posters may not work for you. Experiment with placement, that's the best advice anyone can give you.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    edited August 2013
    Pretty much front and center here. Just left of the center channel. Turns out to be a pretty good spot in my room.
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,128
    edited August 2013
    HT Left front corner slightly toed in. Works well in my room .

    2 Chan Center
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

    Family Room| Marantz AV7704| Usher Dancer Mini - 2 DMD Mains |Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's Surrounds | Usher BE-616 DMD Center | SVS Ultra Rear Surrounds | Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | MIT Shotgun S3's | Dual SVS SB 4000 Ultras | Oppo UDP 203 | Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life |

    ManCave: HT:Polk LSiM 706VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's|| Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro Sunfire TGA-7401| Sony PS4 Pro| Sony PS4 Pro|SVS PB13 Ultra| Oppo UDP 203 | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Samsung 55" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

    Office BlueSound Node| KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |

    Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |

    Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's

    Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 | LSiM 705's |
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,737
    edited August 2013
    Two front subs on the outside of my 2As, and a 3rd tucked behind the couch for some rumble. 50 Hz crossover, and all carefully adjusted with SPL Meter.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/



  • Sumerian
    Sumerian Posts: 473
    edited August 2013
    1 Sub near the fire place on wooden base
  • badchad
    badchad Posts: 348
    edited August 2013
    I'm guilty of having my sub behind the couch and in the corner. It's there mostly because of aesthetics.

    I kind of like the fact that as you enter the room, you don't see the sub. Once the first roar, or explosion of a movie hits, people usually tend to look around thinking "Where the heck did that come from?". It's a subtle beast.

    Sure, I could probably place it elsewhere for better performance, but I feel like I get enough out of it already.
    Polk Fronts: RTi A7's
    Polk Center: CSi A6
    Polk Surrounds: FXi A6's
    Polk Rear Surround: RTi4
    Sub: HSU VTF-3 (MK1)
    AVR: Yamaha RX-A2010
    B&K Reference 200.7
    TV: Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Oppo BDP-103
  • ViperZ
    ViperZ Posts: 2,046
    edited August 2013
    People used to think that my subs (dual-10") were speakers, considering that B&W CDM1 speakers are tiny compared to the subs (NHT SubTwo). I used to have subs beside each speaker, but now after room calibration, one sub is in front right corner of the room, 2nd sub is on the left of the couch, almost back left corner of the room.
    Panasonic PT-AE4000U projector for movies
    Carada 106" Precision Series (Classic Cinema White)
    Denon AVR-X3600H pre/pro
    Outlaw 770 7-channel amplifier
    B&W CDM1-SE fronts
    B&W CDM-CNT center
    B&W CDM1 rears on MoPADs
    JBL SP8CII in-ceiling height speakers
    Samsung DTB-H260F OTA HDTV tuner
    DUAL NHT SubTwo subwoofers
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-Ray player
    Belkin PF60 Power Center
    Harmony 1100 RF remote with RF extender
    Sony XBR-X950G 55" 4K HDR Smart TV + PS3 in the living room
  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,918
    edited August 2013
    echcoofformlesss, it's funny that you mentioned putting the sub behind the couch.When the co.I worked for became a Bose distributor and did the 3 room systems while under construction sometimes we mounted the sub under the floor joyce either behind or under the couch w/ the designers plan, and then used a floor type a.c. vent to allow for flow.It did work and was specifically designed to fit on 16'' centers.Most here do not like Bose of any type or model except some who go for the 901s , just saying what I installed.My sub is down firing and was bothering my neighbor so much going up the walls I had to move and adjust the thing.....
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited August 2013
    Both HT and 2 channel: 1 sub between front speakers facing listening position. Blends well, good articulation, you wouldn't know it's there except for the great low end.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • ryanmx48
    ryanmx48 Posts: 26
    edited August 2013
    I actually bought an entertainment center with a big compartment in the middle, directly underneath my center channel, where I "housed" it because it looks nice and neat. I guess it sounds good, but I'm no audiophile. Should I try different placement? Is it bad to have it in the tv stand like that?
  • mr_natural78
    mr_natural78 Posts: 82
    edited October 2013
    ryanmx48 wrote: »
    I actually bought an entertainment center with a big compartment in the middle, directly underneath my center channel, where I "housed" it because it looks nice and neat. I guess it sounds good, but I'm no audiophile. Should I try different placement? Is it bad to have it in the tv stand like that?

    I'm curious about this as well. I am about to start building a new entertainment wall unit and thought of doing the same with my psw505 so it was right in the middle under the tv and center channel.
    Sony KDL-55EX500 TV
    Sony BDP-S570 blue ray player
    Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver
    Front L/R: Polk RT55i
    Front high: Polk RT25i
    Center: Polk CS245i
    Surround: Polk RT35i
    Sub: Polk PSW505
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 19,044
    edited October 2013
    I'm curious about this as well. I am about to start building a new entertainment wall unit and thought of doing the same with my psw505 so it was right in the middle under the tv and center channel.

    might want to rethink that a little. If you plan on putting other gear in there also like CD/DVD or anything with a hard drive. You may induce enough vibration that the other gear may not like at all. You'll also be loading the space it is in like corner loading which will increase bass greatly and could be very un-natural bass.
  • zane77
    zane77 Posts: 1,696
    edited October 2013
    I've got mine just outside the A9's (LR) but a little further from A7's (Wide LR) sounds pretty good there. not quite in the corners but close.
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
    Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
    Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV
  • 20hz
    20hz Posts: 636
    edited October 2013
    I have had many sound problems in my living room , I have a adjoining dining room that leads to a kitchen that ties into a hall and that's the same hall that's end the end of the living room .
    so the only smooth sound I got was putting the sub in the furthest corner from the hall ( behind the tv ) I had to go big 4x12" woofers but the sound is deep and consistent anywhere I do rumble down the hall and kitchen also but before I was getting cancellation .
    Also my sub is up-firing so I was concerned about losing since the woofers were not close to the ground but it is awesome !
  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,099
    edited October 2013
    20hz wrote: »
    I have had many sound problems in my living room , I have a adjoining dining room that leads to a kitchen that ties into a hall and that's the same hall that's end the end of the living room .
    so the only smooth sound I got was putting the sub in the furthest corner from the hall ( behind the tv ) I had to go big 4x12" woofers but the sound is deep and consistent anywhere I do rumble down the hall and kitchen also but before I was getting cancellation .
    Also my sub is up-firing so I was concerned about losing since the woofers were not close to the ground but it is awesome !

    Have you considered using something like an Auralex Gramma or subdude? I've actually made my own once with good results. I'm actually using a Gramma now for a James Loudspeaker L4000P with good results. It smoothed out the bass and I have it in the front right corner of the room. There's no undue vibrations, just clean bass presented in the front soundstage.
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
  • outofhand
    outofhand Posts: 4
    edited October 2013
    I use one sub and out in front is the best place I found...i'v tried different spots around the room one day and the best spot hands down is in front. mines in between the front tower and the center.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,258
    edited October 2013
    What you need to do is learn about sub placement and then go from there. Not everyones room is perfect for perfect placement so you have to do the best you can to get it to sound it's best.
    As far as putting a sub off to the side awkward doesn't even make sense to me. As a Professional, I have placed hundreds of subs maybe thousands in such places with excellent results. Some subs actually perform their best in such spaces in rooms with less then ideal places. Some rooms this is the ideal place.
    As mentioned above, room acoustics should pic the sub placement. You really should get your read on and learn about why subs get placed where they do. I will say this, they are the most flexible speaker in a home theater system as you almost can place it anywhere in the room and get it to perform. No other speaker in the system is that flexible.

    I suggest the following reading
    http://www.soundandvision.com/content/bass-management-boot-camp
    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-rPQzyiUBwTk/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html
    http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • am_dew
    am_dew Posts: 4
    edited November 2013
    Does anyone have any comments regarding putting a PSW-10 on a small end table to minimize the potential impact to my neghbor in the apartment downstairs from me? Generally speaking, will doing so help or will it make no difference?
  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,099
    edited November 2013
    am_dew wrote: »
    Does anyone have any comments regarding putting a PSW-10 on a small end table to minimize the potential impact to my neghbor in the apartment downstairs from me? Generally speaking, will doing so help or will it make no difference?

    The small end table will probably dissipiate some of the energy from the sub but it will also cause the end table to rattle which is also annoying. If you're looking something to decouple the sub from the floor to keep the floor from transmitting energy you should look for something along the lines of a subdude. I use one myself and it greatly helps keeps the bass inside the room.

    http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude.asp
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
  • am_dew
    am_dew Posts: 4
    edited November 2013
    aboroth00 wrote: »
    The small end table will probably dissipiate some of the energy from the sub but it will also cause the end table to rattle which is also annoying. If you're looking something to decouple the sub from the floor to keep the floor from transmitting energy you should look for something along the lines of a subdude. I use one myself and it greatly helps keeps the bass inside the room.

    http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude.asp

    Thanks. I had not thought about the table possibly rattling...good point. Re: the Subdude...I've heard about them...there seems to be some controversy on another forum about whether or not the Subdude works as advertised, but it seems there a lot of people who swear by them so I guess I'll get one and find out for myself.
  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,099
    edited November 2013
    am_dew wrote: »
    Thanks. I had not thought about the table possibly rattling...good point. Re: the Subdude...I've heard about them...there seems to be some controversy on another forum about whether or not the Subdude works as advertised, but it seems there a lot of people who swear by them so I guess I'll get one and find out for myself.

    Whether it'll improve the sound varies on your environment, suspended floor, concrete slab, so on. However, it will isolate the sub from the floor as it's intended. The foam transmits very little from the sub through itself and into the floor so the room rattling effect no longer happens. I've built my own, bought a gramma and subdude and they all work similarly. My floor is a concrete slab and I still get benefits. Windows don't rattle, bass isn't heard throughout the whole house.
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert