LSi15 tweeter not working

245

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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2013
    Wow Kudo's to Ken and Polk.
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  • Tankman
    Tankman Posts: 419
    edited February 2013
    Face wrote: »
    If this thread was started at the Emotiva forum, his thread would probably be deleted. Although it wasn't their fault, it's nice of Polk for stepping to the plate and helping a guy out.
    +1..yep!.They took away from my profile where you upload a photo, cause I posted photos of other amp's of what they sell on there Forum.Now I can only post links and I have some Emotiva gear.But after all it is there Forum to do what they please.I have never "knock" there amps or any of the gear they sell or any other gear I don't do that.But yeah they will and have deleted Peoples post on that Forum.I think its time to upgrade my amps"Vincents" looking good about now.
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  • Jhayman
    Jhayman Posts: 1,548
    edited February 2013
    For the record this thread is alive and well over at Emo.
    Lots of help offered for Blindsay.
    Pointing him here to have upgraded crossover work done.
    I have had posts removed from here so..
    ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables
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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    This is Polk's warranty....



    Since your amp sent excessive DC voltage to your speaker the part in bold would apply to your situation.

    you have no idea what the amp did, more specifically no proof
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2013
    Blindsay wrote: »
    you have no idea what the amp did, more specifically no proof
    What do you think what happens when an amp "blows up"?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    Face wrote: »
    What do you think what happens when an amp "blows up"?

    while that's my assumption, there is no proof it was the amp that killed the speaker or vice versa

    Also an amp would really have to mess up to send DC voltage to a speaker

    I posted this in 3 places. im not surprised that on the polk forums most people blame the amp, on emotiva I got a mix of the amp and the speaker and on a neutral forum I got a mix of the amp and speaker.
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited February 2013
    Are the speakers new?
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • Tankman
    Tankman Posts: 419
    edited February 2013
    Jhayman wrote: »
    For the record this thread is alive and well over at Emo.
    Lots of help offered for Blindsay.
    Pointing him here to have upgraded crossover work done.
    I have had posts removed from here so..
    +1..wasn't knocking any Forum was just saying.
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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    brgman wrote: »
    Are the speakers new?

    yeah only a few weeks old
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited February 2013
    Then take them back to where you bought them and get another set.
    How old is the mono block?
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2013
    But the emo is used.

    This from the guy that sold him the amps,
    My take on this is that the LSi crossover went kaboom with the current the UPA's can give. This likely shorted the tweeter or sent a strong pulse to it and blew it. I think the low impedance of the LSi minus the tweeter probably faced the amp with a now sub 1 ohm impedance which is what smoked the amp.

    One of the problems with his theory is that the issue occured as soon as the amp was turned on (resulted in a loud howling noise thru the speaker in question) and the AVR volume level was -50dB. This indicates excessive DC voltage from the amp.

    Some there have mentioned a problem with the LSi crossovers. Well, the only problem with the crossovers is an under valued resistor, which can cook when an amp is pushed to the point of clipping, which was obviously not the case here. Furthermore, if the resistor cooked from a clipped signal it would not cause the amp to blow. Therefore, the amp was defective and caused the speaker damage.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2013
    Jhayman wrote: »
    Lots of help offered for Blindsay.

    That's debatable. I saw only one post where the guy got it right, the amp took out the speaker.
    I have had posts removed from here so..

    The difference and it is a BIG difference is that none of your posts were deleted because you were being critical of Polk products or you posted photos of other products. No, your posts were deleted because they were troll type posts and/or flat out asinine.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2013
    The LSi15 has a MINIMUM impedance of 3ohms, not 1.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited February 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    But the emo is used.

    This from the guy that sold him the amps,

    One of the problems with his theory is that the issue occured as soon as the amp was turned on (resulted in a loud howling noise thru the speaker in question) and the AVR volume level was -50dB. This indicates excessive DC voltage from the amp.

    Some there have mentioned a problem with the LSi crossovers. Well, the only problem with the crossovers is an under valued resistor, which can cook when an amp is pushed to the point of clipping, which was obviously not the case here. Furthermore, if the resistor cooked from a clipped signal it would not cause the amp to blow. Therefore, the amp was defective and caused the speaker damage.

    I don't recall any of this info being in the OP here.
    So are we blaming Polk here and Emo over at their forum?
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,201
    edited February 2013
    brgman wrote: »
    I don't recall any of this info being in the OP here.
    So are we blaming Polk here and Emo over at their forum?

    Post #37:
    Blindsay wrote: »
    I posted this in 3 places. im not surprised that on the polk forums most people blame the amp, on emotiva I got a mix of the amp and the speaker and on a neutral forum I got a mix of the amp and speaker.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2013
    Blindsay wrote: »
    Also an amp would really have to mess up to send DC voltage to a speaker
    Like one or more failed output transistors.

    But since the tweeter is capacitively coupled it should not see the excessive DC ,however the woofer voicecoil would take a direct hit.
    Has it been determined what parts in the crossover and or if the tweeeter is actually nuked?
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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    FTGV wrote: »
    Like one or more failed output transistors.

    But since the tweeter is capacitively coupled it should not see the excessive DC ,however the woofer voicecoil would take a direct hit.
    Has it been determined what parts in the crossover and or if the tweeeter is actually nuked?

    I haven't, I didn't a visual inspection and nothing is visually damaged. All the remaining drivers work, I swapped in a good working tweeter and it still didn't work on that side so I know the tweeter and the crossover needed to be replaced.
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  • Tankman
    Tankman Posts: 419
    edited February 2013
    Yep..
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2013
    Polk has already shipped him new parts. You can't beat their customer service.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2013
    But since the tweeter is capacitively coupled it should not see the excessive DC

    That's a good point, so the amp just sent a distorted signal to the speaker taking out the tweeter and high frequency section of the crossover.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    Polk has already shipped him new parts. You can't beat their customer service.

    2 things.

    1. Sorry about getting pissy with you the other day, I was just in a bad mood as I was happy to finally get everything hooked up and then boom. I also was a little irked being told they weren't going to help me even before I spoke to them. Glad it worked out in the end though.

    2. Yes the parts are on the way, I have a slight concern about them being the correct part as it was referred to my "speakers" are on the way (rather than speaker + crossover) so hopefully that was just a miss type. Emotiva has received the bad amp and hopefully its getting fixed as we speak. Crossover is a bit of a pain to replace but its far better than trying to send back the entire speaker.


    edit: lied I had a third

    Since I have to have the woofer out anyways, do you think the woofer upgrade that people do is really worth it, I figure I might do it since I have it out anyways
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2013
    1. We're good. I can be a bit too blunt, so sorry about that.

    2. Guess you'll find out soon enough....LOL

    3. I have no personal experience with that mod, but from everything I've read here it is well worth it.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    1. We're good. I can be a bit too blunt, so sorry about that.

    2. Guess you'll find out soon enough....LOL

    3. I have no personal experience with that mod, but from everything I've read here it is well worth it.

    Thanks, Yeah I guess for the $90 or whatever it wont hurt to try it out anyways. I think ill give them a try.
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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    Since the new crossover and tweeter are on the way I took the time to finish pulling the old crossover out, that black sticky crap was annoying lol, especially since I remember reading I need to salvage that for the reinstall of the new one.
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,201
    edited February 2013
    Yes, the woofer upgrade is worth it.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    Anyone have a moment to assist me troubleshoot what actually died in the crossover? I heard from Emotiva the amp is on the bench working without issue :/ that aside I am curious now what exactly died on the crossover. I have my trusty multimeter with me, set it to ohms and the tweeter unsurprisingly reads nothing.

    Hooked up one end of the multimeter to the negative terminal on the crossover (where I would attach the speaker cable) and the other end of it to the negative cable that would connect to the tweeter. I get a reading on the multimeter of approx. .2ohm. When I switch over to the positive terminal and then the positive speaker lead I get no reading at all.

    So it sounds like somewhere if I trace the route of the positive connecting I will find the break and then whats wrong

    something does seem a bit odd though. if I hook to positive at the terminal and then woofer - I get a reading :neutral:

    edit: I set the multimeter to open/short and it beeps if there is a short (which I want in this case) hooked to the positive terminal of the terminal and then with the other end touch it to every single other connection. Only Woofer negative makes a connection
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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    let me try to organize this more clearly

    With one end of the multimeter In the negative speaker terminal I get a tone (indicating a connection) with the other end in
    +w
    -d2
    -t

    moving the multimeter to the positive speaker terminal I get a tone only on
    -w


    I started tracing it and confirmed the resistor along the tweeter is dead but it doesn't explain the other weird readings, or does it?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2013
    Here's the schematic, http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?38755-POLK-AUDIO-Speaker-Wiring-Schematics-amp-More-ALL-MODELS-except-SDA&p=434888&viewfull=1#post434888
    I heard from Emotiva the amp is on the bench working without issue

    That seems odd considering the smell coming from it and what you say happened.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    Here's the schematic, http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?38755-POLK-AUDIO-Speaker-Wiring-Schematics-amp-More-ALL-MODELS-except-SDA&p=434888&viewfull=1#post434888



    That seems odd considering the smell coming from it and what you say happened.

    Thanks for those schematics, that will help a lot. I tested each resistor individually and did confirm the one that usually blows up is dead, not sure if that accounts for the other oddities I noticed but that schematic should tell me.


    And yes I am a little discouraged about the amp. when the incident occurred I put each upa-1 in a separate room and I had my roommate and one of my friends who was there smell each amp and it was def. this one and the smell stuck with it for a long time.

    Edit: hmm maybe I should have become an electrical engineer instead of a computer science major lol, I understand bits and pieces of that schematic but not enough to aid me in finding the problem lol

    it does look like that dead resistor for the tweeter "r1" should have no effect on the rest of the drivers though so im guessing if I keep looking something else is dead
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  • Blindsay
    Blindsay Posts: 58
    edited February 2013
    Possibly looking like some of the caps might be shot as well.

    having trouble getting a reading on a lot of the caps, so either they are all dead or my method of testing is flawed. I just have my multimeter in open/short mode and it beeps if there is a "short" but the caps im having trouble with
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