Review of the Pioneer Elite SC-68
Comments
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Cool
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Why must you discredit people whom you don't even know ? Just because you can Install all your own gear doesn't mean people who can't and pay for my services are discredited. People who love audio and video just as much as you and I have other skills that allow them to live very nice lives and can afford someone like me to Install and calibrate their systems. They get to sit back and enjoy the system. I see no valid reason to discredit them or anyone else who doesn't have the same skill level as you or someone like me. I find that very distasteful.polkfarmboy wrote: »Dan now your saying its a fact that pioneer is the best based on the opinions of a bunch of people that has to pay money to a shop to wire up there speakers because they do not posses the intellect to do so for themselfs. Whats a preamp even got to do with this ? Are you now saying that your pioneer is one of the best preamps out there all because you now have a free dac built in ?
Your opinion is not fact
When you work in the field , you get to learn a great deal of things that simply being a hobbist can't even fathom. From factory training to the golden experience of learning how different products work or not work so well in different environments.When you upgrade someone's very nice AVR to an Elite and they start making comments about how their system never sounded so good , it's proof in the pudding that these Elite models are fantastic. I have one client that actually likes his SC-07 over his Anthem D2v2/A5 setup.
Even with that being said , I wouldn't discredit your opinions even with your limited experience.
In my world the Elite model receivers are top notch and perform better then everything else. Until I come across a AVR that outperforms and makes so many happy , my opinion is fact. How does one even come to the conclusion of fact in this case? Majority of opinions , so many people can't be wrong can they? Maybe Fact is to strong of a word which for you it seems to be but it's what I have experienced personally and professionally.
As far as the preamp comment , what preamp do you know of that can better then SC-68 as a preamp for under $2500.00 retail? The Built in Asynchronous USB DAC is a treasure for those into computer music. It sounds as good and better then all DAC's I have tested under $700.00.
So again , your opinion of Elite model receivers is fine dude , your very welcome to it. If you disagree with mine , you have been heard and don't need to keep posting on my thread.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Thanks for your review.I just got my Pioneer SC-67 from Best Buy and set it up yesterday. One surprising omission is the Pioneer did not come with any instruction manual (you spend $2000 on a receiver it does not come with instructions?). You have to download it from the Pioneer site. The instructions are very vague and not written in a logical manner. It comes with a CD (AV Navigator) for use on a laptop to aid you in setting up the system but it does not run on a Mac.
It was noticeably lighter than my Onkyo TX-NR906 (54 lbs vs 38 lbs). The Pioneer no longer has that "Urushi"gloss black finish but rather a brused aluminum look. Less smudges but it no longer matches my other Elite stuff. The speaker connections use banana plugs but the plugs themselves are rather flimsy and feel they will break if any tension is applied to it as the connectors bend readily. You can rename all the inputs (e.g. change DVD to Denon DVD3930) but the process is very long and tedious. The text goes through all the letters (upper and lowercase) as well as nearly every symbol on a keyboard, such as #,$,%, etc)
I initially used it in stereo mode using an Oppo BDP-83SE (with the upgraded ESS DACs). The sound is noticeably different. The music seems cleaner with less grain than the Onkyo but the Onkyo seemed to be more robust in sound. The highs in the Pioneer is not as open as the Onkyo, the bass is not as extended as well. Soundstage and imaging on the Pioneer is notably better than the Onkyo.
I then ran MCCAC through its paces. It reported that my center channel speaker is out of phase. I checked the connections and the speaker is definitely connected correctly. I am going to have to take down the speaker (a Polk RT55i) and check the wiring to see if there is anything amiss internally. After running MCCAC the surround sounds more open and spacious than the Audyssey XT from the Onkyo, but bass was definitely light on the bottom end.
I am using an Oppo BDP-83SE and a Pioneer BDP-09FD for movie playback. One thing I noticed immediately is that video appears a lot later on screen than my Onkyo (which was pretty slow in itself). For example, when I play a Paramount disc, the opening splash screen (the Paramount logo with High Definition text) the sound comes out first and the logo finally appears on screen near the end of the animation. There was no change in PQ as compared to my older Onkyo since video is passed through.
I have one BIG issue with the Pioneer. The remote control is useless. Totally. I have never encountered one as bad as this one. It is long and slender. The buttons are all similarly sized and arranged in an unfriendly layout. The text is so small on it you cannot read it. It is backlit but it's useless because its red and most of the buttons are dual function and the function you need is not lit. I am resigned to the fact I will have to buy a universal remote to be rid of this annoyance.
I bought this receiver for its multi-zone capability and I have yet to get it working. I wanted to use a dual system in my home theater. I have my usual 7.1 setup for watching movies. But I also wanted to set up a second zone in the theater so I can use a different pair of speaker just for listening to CDs in stereo. When using the second zone, i do not want the 7.1 system engaged. I definitely have the second pair of speaker connected to the correct terminals. You have to engage the second zone from the front panel (you cannot activate it from the remote). But the 7.1 system comes on and teh second pair of speakers is silent.
I also don't like that fact they don't include a paper manual in the box. I hate the fact they want to you read it on your computer , tablet or such. Even printing it out sucks as you have to get a binder of some sorts to manage it. I understand going green but it's annoying as well.
I also agree with you on the Urushi finish. I hated this when they started this with the 5 series. I feel like the Elite name and it's meaning is starting to slip away. The TV's are gone , the Blu ray players are now terrible and all I got left to cherish is the receivers and they tainted them with taking away what IMO separated them from the pack in the looks department.
The binding posts are of good quality compared to everything else on the market in this price class. Onkyo or Integra don't have better , I would actually like to see true 5 way higher quality binding post of the likes of WBT but I'm sure that would add much cost which I would be willing to pay but I'm sure with as cheap as everyone is now , not many others would.
Renaming the inputs also sucks , I hate it so much I don't bother. I use all control anyway so I have no need to relabel.
I believe what you are experiencing in Stereo is the Pioneer is a warmer sound then the Onkyo models. We have done many side by side's in the store with Integra and Pioneer and I basically came to the same conclusion you did. I prefer the sound of the Pioneer much more over the Integra models but the Integra so sound great. I love the dynamic range they have which means they use very good caps.
When MCACC reports out of phase , usually there is something wrong. It also can be the heavy reflections in your room causing MCACC to believe this to be true. If you for the hell of it reverse wiring and the message goes away , then you might want to check inside the speaker as you stated or think about room acoustics and placement of the center channel.
As far as the later video thing , is it HDMI sync issue? HDMI is always a nightmare and super picky . Some gear works better with others and the timing greatly changes.
The remote sucks , it's worse then the older models which had a nice little screen and lit up very well. I don't ever use factory remotes so for me this is a non issue. I use Universal remote control.
Yes you can activate the zone 2 or even zone 3 from the remote , on your factory receiver you have a receiver button , zone 2, zone 3 and zone 4 buttons. The zone controls are at the bottom of the remote with the light button. What you do is press what zone you want to control , then control it volume as well if your not in fixed output. To go back to controlling the main zone or your 7.1 system , you must press the Receiver button first which is located above the volume +. I use all zones and you have to configure each zone to your needs. The SC-67 is very configurable and it's difficult as you don't have a nicely printed out manual. I can see one being frustrated here and also what makes my job so valuable to so many. If you need assistance with setting up the Zones , you can contact me and I'll help you out. Shoot me a PM.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Yamaha does the same "Going Green" thing with no printed manual, only a CD. But a quick call to their CS dept & a printed manual was in my hand within the week. Call Pioneer CS to see if they provide a printed manual if you request it. Nothing like having a printed manual as a go to when setting things up & tweaking the unit. Yamaha's manuals are very well written & just reading thru it enlightened me on it's many features."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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I ran MCACC a few times and it reports the phase differently. Sometimes all the speakers are okay, other times different speakers are out of phase so I just ignore it. I noticed that the bass is a lot lower in volume than what the older Onkyo showed. I feel that the MCACC lowers the bass too much, I have to boost the level by about 3-6 dB. My friend has another Pioneer unit and he also has slow HDMI synching as well.
I gave upon the remote. You really can't tell if you have it upside down in the dark, so I reprogrammed my Logitech Harmony and I am much happier... I just hate the fact that the battery on the Harmony discharges so fast. I got the zones all figured out so right now i am a happy camper.. -
I ran MCACC a few times and it reports the phase differently. Sometimes all the speakers are okay, other times different speakers are out of phase so I just ignore it. I noticed that the bass is a lot lower in volume than what the older Onkyo showed. I feel that the MCACC lowers the bass too much, I have to boost the level by about 3-6 dB. My friend has another Pioneer unit and he also has slow HDMI synching as well.
I gave upon the remote. You really can't tell if you have it upside down in the dark, so I reprogrammed my Logitech Harmony and I am much happier... I just hate the fact that the battery on the Harmony discharges so fast. I got the zones all figured out so right now i am a happy camper..
Do you own a Sound pressure meter or SPL meter? It's a great tool to have and you can pick one up at Radio Shack. This way after MCACC is finished setting up all the levels in your system , you can recheck manual style to see if in fact the receiver is setting the Sub to low or your a bass nut and like more bass in your system. This is not un common as most people are not very happy with a proper calibration as most are use to a un calibrated properly system. I get it all the time about the rears , center and sub/s are to low and they can't hear them playing. I try to educate anyone I calibrate for . Video is even worse as most people have their Tv's in Torch or Vivid mode and think it's a wonderful picture. I calibrate ISF.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I have a RS SPL meter... It really does not measure bass levels to well. I am not a bass nut but I can say that the Onkyo seems a lot better in that respect with Audyssey. I understand that MCACC is not that great with bass management.
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So again , your opinion of Elite model receivers is fine dude , your very welcome to it. If you disagree with mine , you have been heard and don't need to keep posting on my thread.
Its not your thread though? As far as that DAC goes inside, I am sure its just below par and I am going to have my bud demo it for me just so I know your talking crazy stuff with praises about it. Your opinion misleads people who don't know any better into buying pioneer as you make it out as if its the be all and end all. No offence but I was reading old threads and guys where getting pissed about you basically just saying this and that is crap and pioneer is the best.
Pioneer is not the best, the sc68 is no high end preamp, its just a noisy run of the mill box of economic components slapped together -
polkfarmboy wrote: »Its not your thread though? As far as that DAC goes inside, I am sure its just below par and I am going to have my bud demo it for me just so I know your talking crazy stuff with praises about it. Your opinion misleads people who don't know any better into buying pioneer as you make it out as if its the be all and end all. No offence but I was reading old threads and guys where getting pissed about you basically just saying this and that is crap and pioneer is the best.
Pioneer is not the best, the sc68 is no high end preamp, its just a noisy run of the mill box of economic components slapped together
buh bye. hello ignore list. -
ken brydson wrote: »buh bye. hello ignore list.
As if I care? You just proved yourself with that statement :cheesygrin:. I was unaware that this is just a thread for @ss kissing Dan and other pioneer owners. Maybe you should go join a forum where people think that there is one brand thats better than everything else out there
This is an audio forum and if you don't like it then fine but don't go name calling -
polkfarmboy wrote: »As if I care? You just proved yourself with that statement:cheesygrin:. I was unaware that this is just a thread for @ss kissing Dan and other pioneer owners. Maybe you should go join a forum where people think that there is one brand thats better than everything else out there
This is an audio forum and if you don't like it then fine but don't go name calling /QUOTE]
You know what? Dan took the time to write a lengthy, coherent review on a new piece of gear. If you don't agree with it, fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But really man, you are coming off like a petulant teenager. -
You know what? Dan took the time to write a lengthy, coherent review on a new piece of gear. If you don't agree with it, fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But really man, you are coming off like a petulant teenager.
Just let him go on breaking **** and ignore like I did. After 11 years, first one. -
Wow!!! Someone is riding the cotton pony..
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"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
pearsall001 wrote: »Yamaha does the same "Going Green" thing with no printed manual, only a CD.
Same with the NAD T187 I just returned. However, companies are not doing this for any environmental reason, but the real reason is green. They are not giving printed manuals because it saves them money, and puts more green in their pockets.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
.polkfarmboy wrote: »Its not your thread though? As far as that DAC goes inside, I am sure its just below par and I am going to have my bud demo it for me just so I know your talking crazy stuff with praises about it. Your opinion misleads people who don't know any better into buying pioneer as you make it out as if its the be all and end all. No offence but I was reading old threads and guys where getting pissed about you basically just saying this and that is crap and pioneer is the best.
Pioneer is not the best, the sc68 is no high end preamp, its just a noisy run of the mill box of economic components slapped together
I asked you this before but you didn't answer it. What avr do you find better new in the $2500 and under price range?
I'd be willing to bet most avr's in that price range have comparable parts inside. -
Why do you want to argue the quality of the SC-68? Why do you want to know I'm just talking crazy stuff? Why would my opinion mislead anyone? Why would you assume anyone wouldn't know any better? Thats a slap to the face of many on this forum who was doing just fine before you showed up acting like an ****.polkfarmboy wrote: »Its not your thread though? As far as that DAC goes inside, I am sure its just below par and I am going to have my bud demo it for me just so I know your talking crazy stuff with praises about it. Your opinion misleads people who don't know any better into buying pioneer as you make it out as if its the be all and end all. No offence but I was reading old threads and guys where getting pissed about you basically just saying this and that is crap and pioneer is the best.
Pioneer is not the best, the sc68 is no high end preamp, its just a noisy run of the mill box of economic components slapped together
As I said before and I'll say it again , your very welcome to your opinion.
The Internal USB DAC is the first of it's kind and if your into computer music with high rez files , this is a very nice one box solution. I have access to anything I want and I choose the SC-68 because it filled all my needs. I have owned Rotel , B&K and I choose Pioneer Elite. I could have purchased anything from Bryston , Krell , NAD , Integra , Anthem , Marantz , Cambridge audio just to name a few as well carry them all. But in the end I still choose the SC-68 as it fit all my needs. I almost purchased a really nice Integra DHC80.3 and was going to go back to separates but this SC-68 blew me away so I had to have it.
I'm not the be all end all of anything ,I'm just a professional who also loves this hobby. I like to share my experiences with this forum as I have been since the 1990's. You can feel anyway you want about me , it's fine , we all can't get along as though I wish we all could. If you want to ask me questions on why I feel the way I do about the SC-68 , thats fine. Trying to discredit me is disrespectful.
Anyone can get a Elite and find out for themselves if it's for them , it doesn't benefit me in any way as I don't work for them. Case you didn't notice this is a polk audio forum and most who own them push them on others due to there own personal experiences with them.
So if you want to discuss this further , fine , if your going to make comments like "Economic Components Slapped together" and "I'm going to have my bud demo it for me just so I know your talking crazy stuff with praises about it" you can let the door hit you in the ****. You don't need to be a jerk if you don't agree with what I say.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Easy, gentlemen! Let's back off on the name calling.
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ken brydson wrote: »buh bye. hello ignore list.
Took you this long??
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Kenneth Swauger wrote: »Easy, gentlemen! Let's back off on the name calling.
Just apologized to PFB via PM. Drunk posting is never a good idea...
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