Review of the Pioneer Elite SC-68

mantis

Hello all ,
I have finished my review of my new receiver. I'll jump right in and try not to bore you.
I have owned the SC-07 for many years , actually since it came out. I replaced Rotel Separates with it for many reason you can search on my review then for that back story. I saw no need to replace the SC-07 until now. I just got deeper into Computer music , been testing out a lot of DAC's and really wanted to have a solid DAC for my system. Well when we got in the SC-68 with it's internal USB DAC , fist of it's kind actually , I was pretty interested in what it could do , how it would sound etc. After our Computer show a few weeks ago(I posted a story about that as well , search for it) and I was pretty sold on the SC-68.

Some of you might wonder why I didn't go back to separates as I planed on. Well One thing that ruined it for me was the Integra DHC80.3 and no date set for the 80.4. Reason I bagged getting it was when I put a external DAC in front of it , my sound quality was worse then if I just went straight digital in with HDMI or optical. From what I learned the Integra's digitize the incoming analog signal so there is a A to D converter , then converts it back to Analog. This ruined any DAC you put in front of it to the point I was pretty pissed about this.
So I bagged the idea of using it. On a side not it did sound pretty damn good using it's own internal DAC's over HDMI. I was on the fence if I should pick one up and find a nice 5 or 7 channel amp. Well after hearing the SC-68 compared to the DTR70.3 it was a no contest.

The SC-68 sounded better in every single way including dynamic range which is something I feel the Integra higher end models do very well. Even at the entry level DTR20.3 or the newer DTR20.4 , they have very nice dynamic range. Something anyone who can't afford a higher end AVR or has a system not in need of one could love and respect for many years.

I uninstalled my loved SC-07 and put them side by side on the floor. The SC-07 is deeper and taller. Also feels a tad bit heavier. I guess all the extra signal paths the older Class D amps had to travel added some inches around the waist. One thing I like much better is the look of the SC-07. She still looks like the older Elite models. Holding on to a time when life was really good. Shining and bright , deep piano finish always was one of my favorite things about the Elite line. My TV has the Urushi finish and so did all my past Elite gear. The SC-68 has a brushed Aluminum finish exactly like the new Sharp Elite TV's and Blu ray players. I hate this. Now if Pioneer never had the Urushi finish ,It would look wonderful. But I hate change when change is not needed. I want Urushi back. If Pioneer ever releases a replacement for the SC-09tx , they better make is Urushi. I'm writing them a letter on this matter and running up in my Rep about it.

Sound quality wise , it's still very similar to the SC-07 in many ways but what I'm noticing is it's smoother from top to bottom. It has a very balanced pleasing tonal balance. I sink into my couch more so then when I use to listen to the SC-07 with no external amps in the chain. I have none now , it's all the SC-68. I expected this level of sound quality from the SC-57 when it was released , I had one here and did a pretty intense shootout (I have a thread about it if you want to check it out). I found the SC-07 and the SC-57 to be much closer in sound quality. The SC-68 sets itself apart from it's past. It's a remarkable achievement in tone. I still find it amazing that you can get this level of sound quality out of a receiver.

On the feature side of things , I love the new 2012 App. It brings my whole house music experience to another level. Before I had to use Universal Remote controls around the house to turn on zone 2 or 3 , then pick my source , then control my original Apple Tv 160g and get all that to go. No big deal as I used it that way for years and loved it. I have 7 active audio zones around the house and use them all. We have speakers on the deck for the summer time and we use the hell out of them. I use my garage a lot as well as I love to wash the trucks in the driveway and pull into the garage for the detailing , wax etc. Now I can Turn on what zone I want , Airplay into it right from my phone any app that I want. That is stupid cool. I love the hell out or it. It's nice to be in the Jaccuzzi and turn on that zone , get something to play and crack open the latest mag of Home Theater. I have so many uses for this.
Another very cool thing is the HDMI out for zone 4. Finally a Matrix Switch inside a Receiver. This is awesome. I have component and analog running to my master bed tv , also have a pair on in wall polk RC65i's in there and it worked very well as it was. Now with HMDI , I enjoy it even more. I can finally un wire all those component cables for good. I couldn't seem to get away from it but now I can. So sweet.

My system is under construction right now. I removed the Apple TV160g as I felt no more use for it right now. I have a Sonos Connect , Apple TV 1080p and Airplay directly into the receiver. So for house music , I don't need the 160g anymore.
For the main zone I use my Macbook Pro with Channel D software now directly into the USB DAC. It;s crazy how good it sounds and I actually like it better then the Cambridge Audio DAc Magic Plus I had here. It also might be the difference between the SC-07 and SC-68 overall sound quality as well. I'll have to bring another Magic home and side by side it. We are getting in the D2 from Benchmark so we shall see how the USB DAC holds up against it. I'm bringing home some Cardas and Audioquest USB cables to see if that really makes a worthy difference over a high quality 3.0 USB cable from Belkin. Right now I'm loving my sound quality and if upgrading the USB improves it , I'm gonna be tickled pink.
Side not to all of you reading this , dig into computer music , it's well worth the time and effort to experience it.

I also swapped out my Audioquest 8 foot Flx 14/2 for a nice pair of Cardas Crosslinks 8ft as well. So far they are a very smooth sounding cable and didn't hurt anything when I did. I'm not exaclty sure if they are better worse or same as my Audioquest but nothing is speaking to me to get excited about Cardas. My Boss insists Cardas is a worthy Vs with any Audioquest cable price to price. I have just not seen a need to switch to Cardas. He is going to make me take some Clears home for Demo and I'll be also picking up some Go4's as I'm Intrested on how they sound. It's been awhile since I got some new Audioquest speaker wires since I discovered how damn good the Flx14/2 and FLX14/4 is. It's amazing how it competes with higher end pre built speaker wires as it has yet been shamed or bested. The Crosslinks are very nice so far and once I get deeper into the SC-68 and get use to how it sounds , then I'll dig deeper into Cardas vs Audioquest. But for now Cardas is not hurting my sound or honestly changed it when I made the swap. I feel this might be a very good thing.

Movie wise I have yet to really go deep. In the future I'll continue to review the SC-68 and I'll report all of my findings. So far I'm extremely happy with it and have no regrets not going back to separates. My next move will be new speakers , stay tuned for that. Right now Revel just made a serious challenge to everything I have been lusting after. We just got in the new series and I'm blown away. They might need a in home demo.

Here are some pic's for your enjoyment.

jmwest1970

Great review Dan! I'm hoping to get into the Elite lineup myself, but I think it will have to be a SC-61 due to budget. Either way I think it will be awesome. FYI, I still love that mirror.

leroyjr1

Nice review Dan. Do you happen to know the differences between the 68/67? The 68 price wise is suppose to be an upgrade over the older sc-x7 series. Is the difference in price just the DAC in the 68. Also noticed they downgraded the 67 from ultra2 to select. That kind of sucks since the prices are still the same. Sorry for all the questions. I'll be buying a new receiver in the weeks to come but can't make up my mind. I also was holding out for a 80.4 but that might be a while from now.

Those mythos rock..

Lietuvis91

Good stuff, Dan. I'm glad to hear Pioneer is putting useful new tech into their new line and continuing to up the sound quality. It's good news as some other manufacturers seem to not focus so much on improving SQ anymore. I kind of wish you could pit the sc68 against sony's new flagship 5800es. A lot of the stuff on the sony is proprietary stuff, so it would be very intersting to see how it compares to the proprietary stuff pioneer designed.

I have to say I'm glad you nudged me into the vsx 52 a while back. This has been hands down the most impressive receiver I've had in my home yet. I've had onkyo, yamaha, marantz and sony here, which were all good in their own ways, just not a complete package that does it all like the pio elite.

mantis

jmwest1970 wrote: »

Great review Dan! I'm hoping to get into the Elite lineup myself, but I think it will have to be a SC-61 due to budget. Either way I think it will be awesome. FYI, I still love that mirror.

Yeah yeah I know , it's the wifes doing. I wouldn't have it in the room. I tried a few times to keep it in the basement but she wasn't having it. If I change speakers and run dual subs then it might have to go. That would make me happy.
The entire Elite line up this year is fantastic.

Toolfan66

Nice write up Dan. But not enough to get rid of my SC-07 :cool: I don't need all the extra this has to offer at this moment in time so I would just be throwing money out the window..

I am sure I will have my SC-07 for a few more years..

mantis

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Nice review Dan. Do you happen to know the differences between the 68/67? The 68 price wise is suppose to be an upgrade over the older sc-x7 series. Is the difference in price just the DAC in the 68. Also noticed they downgraded the 67 from ultra2 to select. That kind of sucks since the prices are still the same. Sorry for all the questions. I'll be buying a new receiver in the weeks to come but can't make up my mind. I also was holding out for a 80.4 but that might be a while from now.

Those mythos rock..

The USB DAC , Ultra 2 , and it's almost 1 pound heavier. Other then that I don't see much of a difference. Again it's the flagship so it gets all the bells , you lose those things going with the SC-67 but you have $500.00 in your pocket. If your into Computer music , You now have $500.00 to buy an external DAC but as good as the Internal one is , you actually save more then $500.00 because you have to buy a pair of analog IC's , a USB cable and have to plus it in somewhere and possibly upgrade the power supply on your DAC. I see much value in going with the SC-68 over the SC-67.

The Mythos sound incredible with the new SC-68 and the Cardas Speaker wire. Everything is so smooth and clean , I'm so enjoying sitting here listening , it's Awesome.

mantis

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

Good stuff, Dan. I'm glad to hear Pioneer is putting useful new tech into their new line and continuing to up the sound quality. It's good news as some other manufacturers seem to not focus so much on improving SQ anymore. I kind of wish you could pit the sc68 against sony's new flagship 5800es. A lot of the stuff on the sony is proprietary stuff, so it would be very intersting to see how it compares to the proprietary stuff pioneer designed.

I have to say I'm glad you nudged me into the vsx 52 a while back. This has been hands down the most impressive receiver I've had in my home yet. I've had onkyo, yamaha, marantz and sony here, which were all good in their own ways, just not a complete package that does it all like the pio elite.

The VSX52 is a wonderful receiver with plenty of power and a nice balance of features. Pioneer Elite always leads the way in sound quality. I noticed that many years ago when Dolby Digital first came out. Glad your enjoying it. You should hear the replacement with the D3 amps , it's off the charts now.Incredible sounding receiver at a price that's incredible for what you get. The SC-63 is a powerful choice.

mantis

Toolfan66 wrote: »

Nice write up Dan. But not enough to get rid of my SC-07 :cool: I don't need all the extra this has to offer at this moment in time so I would just be throwing money out the window..

I am sure I will have my SC-07 for a few more years..

I'm was right there with you as I still love my SC-07. It's a beast and does everything I need it to do. But the Internal DAC blew me away and I just had to have it. Not to mention I have not upgraded in a long time and I like to keep things fresh. I have no use for 3D and 4k as I have a 60 inch Elite Kuro that is not going anywhere anytime soon or really ever until it dies.

leroyjr1

mantis wrote: »

I have no use for 3D and 4k as I have a 60 inch Elite Kuro that is not going anywhere anytime soon or really ever until it dies.

Might be time to grab the Panasonic 65vt50.

mantis

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Might be time to grab the Panasonic 65vt50.

The VT50 is a worthy replacement but I like my Elite more. I do like the 5 more inches. Who wouldn't LOL.

EndersShadow

Dan, you dont screwed my plan over lol..

I was debating moving from the Integra DTR 5.9 to one of their higher end models in the future, specifically something in the DTR 70 or 80 range, but now am re-considering it lol....

mantis

EndersShadow wrote: »

Dan, you dont screwed my plan over lol..

I was debating moving from the Integra DTR 5.9 to one of their higher end models in the future, specifically something in the DTR 70 or 80 range, but now am re-considering it lol....

Don't feel to bad , I did the same thing to myself with going back to separates. This damn receiver stopped me in my tracks.

pearsall001

Nice write up...that new model is a beast for sure. Sounds like you're really diggin it!!! Enjoy!!

EndersShadow

mantis wrote: »

Don't feel to bad , I did the same thing to myself with going back to separates. This damn receiver stopped me in my tracks.

My main problem I have with buying an AVR is with the LSi's any amp section in the AVR is a pointless en-devour since I have to use a dedicated amp..

Grrrr.... back to reading....

mantis

EndersShadow wrote: »

My main problem I have with buying an AVR is with the LSi's any amp section in the AVR is a pointless en-devour since I have to use a dedicated amp..

Grrrr.... back to reading....

It comes down to features you want. The SC-68 will power your Lsi's if you wanted it to. But the features and sound quality of this receiver would make for a killer preamp. I plan on testing that down the road. I have plenty of access to a wonderful world of amps .

dkg999

I had a chance to listen to this Pioneer AVR and the top of the line Marantz AVR side by side using both Totem and Magnepan HT speaker set ups. The Pioneer has a great feature set, however I think the room of people was mostly in agreement that the amp section in the Marantz was better. The shop's tech had worked with both units, as well as the other brands being demo'd and it was his opinion that the Marantz would drive the Polk LSi's just fine, and this shop was previously a Polk dealer and still repairs lots of Polk speakers. I really did like all the bells and whistles built into the Pioneer!

pearsall001

EndersShadow wrote: »

My main problem I have with buying an AVR is with the LSi's any amp section in the AVR is a pointless en-devour since I have to use a dedicated amp..

Grrrr.... back to reading....

If you're running a combo 2channel/HT system, a high quality AVR & an external amp is a match made in heaven.

mantis

dkg999 wrote: »

I had a chance to listen to this Pioneer AVR and the top of the line Marantz AVR side by side using both Totem and Magnepan HT speaker set ups. The Pioneer has a great feature set, however I think the room of people was mostly in agreement that the amp section in the Marantz was better. The shop's tech had worked with both units, as well as the other brands being demo'd and it was his opinion that the Marantz would drive the Polk LSi's just fine, and this shop was previously a Polk dealer and still repairs lots of Polk speakers. I really did like all the bells and whistles built into the Pioneer!

I strongly disagree with everyone in that room. I have done a few marantz receivers over the last year or so including the 7005 which I believe was last years flagship. I thought I was listening to a Denon AVR with no dynamics and lifeless top end. I was excited to give the Marantz a run as it looks really cool and I dig the preamp they have out. I tought for sure it was going to be badass but I as well as my partner felt it didn't do any justice to the entire Definitive Technology Reference In wall speaker package with 2 In Wall subs. It seemed to struggle to perform well in a medium to large room. I would have rather have had a SC Elite.

Sound quality I subjective and everyone has a right to their opinion. I just don't think Marantz should even be in the same Room. I'm no fan of them or Denon.

EndersShadow

mantis wrote: »

It comes down to features you want. The SC-68 will power your Lsi's if you wanted it to. But the features and sound quality of this receiver would make for a killer preamp. I plan on testing that down the road. I have plenty of access to a wonderful world of amps .

When the time comes we will talk. Either way I will still have my fronts amped as my refurb Carver M1.0t isnt going anywhere once it comes back, but if I could use the Pio to drive the center and 2 surrounds that would be great...

dkg999

Well Dan, we had them in the same room, same sources, etc. The Marantz, and I believe it was the 7007, just had a more refined, smoother, sound. The Pioneer was just a little bit overly dynamic with those speakers, and on some music and HT passages kind of drove you backwards a little. It would be great if Pioneer put their pre-amp section in a pre/pro like Marantz does.

I'm still looking for an AVR that sounds like my B&K does, but with all the latest feature sets!

mantis

dkg999 wrote: »

Well Dan, we had them in the same room, same sources, etc. The Marantz, and I believe it was the 7007, just had a more refined, smoother, sound. The Pioneer was just a little bit overly dynamic with those speakers, and on some music and HT passages kind of drove you backwards a little. It would be great if Pioneer put their pre-amp section in a pre/pro like Marantz does.

I'm still looking for an AVR that sounds like my B&K does, but with all the latest feature sets!

It's tuff out there coming from B&K , I miss the hell out of them. If they where back in the game , I would move right in. The only thing out there that sound like your B&K is the NAD T787. Nothing else even comes close to that sonic signature and even then the NAD does come up short.
I've never heard anyone say an amp or receiver was overly dynamic. Honestly thats what the recording did and the Marantz was not keeping up. What is attractive to people with companies like Marantz and Denon is that , a warm nice pleasing sound. Not to dynamic and nice. Thats not for me ,I enjoy a very dynamic amp or receiver. I like the head room so when the music or movie is supposed to be dynamic , you got it. Thats why they make more then one my man.
You don't like the Marantz personally? It's pretty nicely loaded with todays features , it's sexy as hell and it does sound good , not on the level of your B&K but you can't have that anymore , sorry man. I'm sure I could come up with something , let me sleep on that thought.

Lietuvis91

dkg999 wrote: »

it was his opinion that the Marantz would drive the Polk LSi's just fine, and this shop was previously a Polk dealer and still repairs lots of Polk speakers. I really did like all the bells and whistles built into the Pioneer!

That sounds very strange because the last Marantz receiver that was rated for 4ohm loads was the 7002. The 7005 and the newer 7007 were not designed to handle 4 ohm loads. This was probably done to meet a certain price point, (which btw undercuts pio and the new sony), but it therefore doesn't have the same capability that the pio and sony have. In fact, not even the Marantz amps (mm7055 & mm7025) which were sold with the av7005 were designed for 4 ohm speakers, which to me was a huge disapointment. I'm just surprised that guy said it was ok to run lsi's on this Marantz gear. Maybe he forgot that lsi's are 4 ohm speakers.

As far as what sounds better, it probably depends on the speakers. I have listented to speakers where Yamaha made pioneer elites sound lifeless (the sc-35 generation), however, when it comes to polk monitor and lsi line, I think pioneer elite is probably one of the best sonic matches out there. Using the same parasound or NAD amps, my marantz 7002 just doesn't bring polks to life like the pio does. Never tested the rtia line though.

tonyb

dkg999 wrote: »

I'm still looking for an AVR that sounds like my B&K does, but with all the latest feature sets!

You and me both pal. I still regret letting mine go.

Sherardp

Is that the SC-07 on the left in the last pic? If so wow, it looks beast mode next to the 68. Since the SC-07 passes video unharmed I don't see a new to swap mine out just yet. 4K looks amazing over here with the JVC RS4810 and my sound is still incredible with the D-Sonic IceAmps teamed up with the Sunfire on my center/surrounds. It would have to be more a bells and whistles thing for me to upgrade as well. Since I had the new firmware installed on my SC07 I have experienced zero issues.

Congrats on the new 68. I may reconsider next yrs model, but now I think I'm ok. Excellent write up as well.

mantis

Sherardp wrote: »

Is that the SC-07 on the left in the last pic? If so wow, it looks beast mode next to the 68. Since the SC-07 passes video unharmed I don't see a new to swap mine out just yet. 4K looks amazing over here with the JVC RS4810 and my sound is still incredible with the D-Sonic IceAmps teamed up with the Sunfire on my center/surrounds. It would have to be more a bells and whistles thing for me to upgrade as well. Since I had the new firmware installed on my SC07 I have experienced zero issues.

Congrats on the new 68. I may reconsider next yrs model, but now I think I'm ok. Excellent write up as well.

Yes it is , the SC-07 is a tad taller and deeper then the SC-68. Looks like Pioneer trimmed the fat a bit. For Installation , it's nice to have a slightly smaller footprint especially depth when dealing with many custom cabinets , you need all the room you can get.
I think Pioneer hit a home run with the SC-07 , it's a fantastic high end receiver. It has survived 4 generations of upgrades for me. If the SC-68 didn't have the USB DAC built in , I may have passed on it. The sound quality is subtle , it's not night and day better.

jon s

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Nice review Dan. Do you happen to know the differences between the 68/67? The 68 price wise is suppose to be an upgrade over the older sc-x7 series. Is the difference in price just the DAC in the 68. Also noticed they downgraded the 67 from ultra2 to select. That kind of sucks since the prices are still the same.

Differences...
SC-68 has THX Ultra 2 vs Select on SC-67
SC-68 has a USB DAC, SC-67 has none
SC-68 has 7.1 pre-amp inputs, SC-67 has none
SC-68 has three HDMI outs, SC-67 has only two...

Just FYI, unless something goes wrong, I am planning to buy a SC-67 today from Best Buy in Hawaii. They will price match until the end of January the Amazon price with free shipping. If I were to buy from Amazon, i would have to pay $200 shipping. The receiver will take about two weeks to ship to Hawaii. It's expensive living in paradise.

polkfarmboy

jon s wrote: »

Differences...
SC-68 has THX Ultra 2 vs Select on SC-67
SC-68 has a USB DAC, SC-67 has none
SC-68 has 7.1 pre-amp inputs, SC-67 has none
SC-68 has three HDMI outs, SC-67 has only two...

Just FYI, unless something goes wrong, I am planning to buy a SC-67 today from Best Buy in Hawaii. They will price match until the end of January the Amazon price with free shipping. If I were to buy from Amazon, i would have to pay $200 shipping. The receiver will take about two weeks to ship to Hawaii. It's expensive living in paradise.

Even if you could buy from Amazon then Pioneer would void the,warranty

leroyjr1

jon s wrote: »

Differences...
SC-68 has THX Ultra 2 vs Select on SC-67
SC-68 has a USB DAC, SC-67 has none
SC-68 has 7.1 pre-amp inputs, SC-67 has none
SC-68 has three HDMI outs, SC-67 has only two...

Just FYI, unless something goes wrong, I am planning to buy a SC-67 today from Best Buy in Hawaii. They will price match until the end of January the Amazon price with free shipping. If I were to buy from Amazon, i would have to pay $200 shipping. The receiver will take about two weeks to ship to Hawaii. It's expensive living in paradise.

Both still has a 32 bit dac correct? The USB input on the 68 is the only difference? That's ridiculous how they stripped the sc-57 down, called it a 67 and left it around the same price

Thanks

polkfarmboy

I thought the sc68 was 36 bit?

mantis

Just a bit of an update on the overall 2 channel experience with the Internal USB DAC.

I'm listening to Al Di Meola "Winter Nights" running through Channel D software which the Cd was imported at 16 / 44.1 Apple Lossless. When I had the Cambridge Magic plus I thought this is really clear , detailed and highly dynamic. I really dug how the entire package made my system sound incredible. Now with the SC-68 , I feel the internal DAC is even better. I have this smooth clean rich tone with beautiful effortless dynamics. It's so wonderful to listen to. The Magic Plus is no slouch and I gotta bring it back home to do a side by side as I think a lot of my new sound quality is also from the SC-68's new D3 amps. Pioneer did something to really increase the overall sound quality. I'm surprised the SC-57 didn't sound this good. It was very nice but the SC-07 didn't come up as short here.

I'm so pleased with the overall performance so far. Whats even funnier is I have not even calibrated it.I've been running it 2 channel. I did a super quick manual set the center and surround to small , 80hz and mains to large but didn't level calibrate , MCACC or anything. No dialing in and I'm loving it.