For those who haven't heard LP's
EndersShadow
Posts: 17,590
Vinyl is ADDICTING!!!!!!
I had my dad over today to listen to some of his older LP's on my newly acquired TT from TNHDNYMAN. Connected it through to my dad's Yamaha R-300 via the phono input and then to my Integra's aux input through the Yamaha's Tape Out. No special cables, just Rat Shack stuff all the way around while I wait for my Kimber Kable Hero's.
Read the manual on the pitch adjustment to make sure we had things set right and then started spinning......
And then the sky opened up and a light came down from heaven and shone right on my entire setup.... I heard things I havent ever heard from my system in regards to soundstage, imaging, dynamics.... AND I LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT. I did discover though I liked the sound more in "Stereo" mode than "Direct", both with and without my sub connected.
We only got to listen to things for about 30 minutes but it was enough for me to realize I am diggin the Vinyl so I am SCREWED!
So I am looking forward to trying the same setup with Kimber Kable Hero IC's through the entire chain. I will have to start saving for a phono pre for downstairs. I can tell you I will be shopping for LP's a LOT more. I will probably raid my dads collection since he doesnt need them right now.
I will be putting the Yamaha R-300 upstairs to run my Monitor 60's and leave the TT up there and bring it down when I want to really spin on my better system.
So for all those on the fence about vinyl, try it out. You will be pleasantly surprised, but your wallet and possibly your significant other might not like it that much
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I had my dad over today to listen to some of his older LP's on my newly acquired TT from TNHDNYMAN. Connected it through to my dad's Yamaha R-300 via the phono input and then to my Integra's aux input through the Yamaha's Tape Out. No special cables, just Rat Shack stuff all the way around while I wait for my Kimber Kable Hero's.
Read the manual on the pitch adjustment to make sure we had things set right and then started spinning......
And then the sky opened up and a light came down from heaven and shone right on my entire setup.... I heard things I havent ever heard from my system in regards to soundstage, imaging, dynamics.... AND I LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT. I did discover though I liked the sound more in "Stereo" mode than "Direct", both with and without my sub connected.
We only got to listen to things for about 30 minutes but it was enough for me to realize I am diggin the Vinyl so I am SCREWED!
So I am looking forward to trying the same setup with Kimber Kable Hero IC's through the entire chain. I will have to start saving for a phono pre for downstairs. I can tell you I will be shopping for LP's a LOT more. I will probably raid my dads collection since he doesnt need them right now.
I will be putting the Yamaha R-300 upstairs to run my Monitor 60's and leave the TT up there and bring it down when I want to really spin on my better system.
So for all those on the fence about vinyl, try it out. You will be pleasantly surprised, but your wallet and possibly your significant other might not like it that much
. "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
Post edited by EndersShadow on
Comments
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I swear I've seen this somewhere before...The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproductionAnd then the sky opened up and a light came down from heaven and shone right on my entire setup....
Too funny. :cool:
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I swear I've seen this somewhere before...The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction
Whats scary is I know I am nowhere near the top end of gear for this and I also know how much gear matters specifically when it comes to analog sound...."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Welcome to the Dark Side, Dan. Now you just need to get into tubes.
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Sorry for your wallet.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Welcome to the Dark Side, Dan. Now you just need to get into tubes.
My wallet cant afford both lol.... You need to come over now with some Vinyl for a listening session.
I will gladly borrow that baldwin tube amp of yours for a bit though
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
If you think vinyl is all that, you must have a really crappy CDP or other source.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
If you think vinyl is all that, you must have a really crappy CDP or other source.
When I get time to listen to my digital setup its setup like this: Cd's ripped to my computer as FLAC using dbpoweramp played through MediaMonkey using the WASAPI plugin sent to my Integra DTR 5.9 via HDMI. I dont know how much better of a digital setup one can make. If I am missing something in this chain please let me know as I would love to make sure I am doing it right.
Keep in mind though most of my library is newer stuff thats been autotuned and dynamically compressed. My dads old stuff hasnt been.
If I ever play CD's its through my Samsung BDP-1590 thats sent out bitstreamed as HDMI.
I found the experience with LP's to be more engaging for the brief time we were able to listen to it. I didn't do a A/B comparison since I dont have CD rips of most of my dad's vinyl stuff."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
I'm pretty sure you were being a little over the top and not serious so I think it's safe to say you are having fun. That's the point sometimes. It may not be the same "quality" of a nice digital system but sometimes it's a nice change of pace to try something different. The great thing about vinyl is that it can be enjoyed for modest money without going to the extreme and creating the end all be all of analog. Glad you are enjoying it. How did the deoxit do on the noise in the controls?
Definately find a decent phono pre so you can have options as to where to spin the records.2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer. -
If you think vinyl is all that, you must have a really crappy CDP or other source.
I get such a kick outta you! lol
Don't get me wrong. I am way more impressed with SACD/DVD-A. But there is still some nostalgia in vinyl I think. I still like it.....sometimes.--Gary--
Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out. -
How did the deoxit do on the noise in the controls?
Didn't get around to it. But the noise didnt show up too much in our listening. I will see what happens when I power speakers with it.Definately find a decent phono pre so you can have options as to where to spin the records.
Yeah its on my list.... maybe although I may move in a little bit of a different direction.I'm pretty sure you were being a little over the top and not serious so I think it's safe to say you are having fun. That's the point sometimes. It may not be the same "quality" of a nice digital system but sometimes it's a nice change of pace to try something different. The great thing about vinyl is that it can be enjoyed for modest money without going to the extreme and creating the end all be all of analog. Glad you are enjoying it.
I may be known to exaggerate just a little, but to answer your question, yes, yes I did indeed have an absolute blast.
If my ears enjoy the lesser quality over the higher quality then that just means my wallet likes me more :biggrin:. I will be trying to have my dad over more to listen to his old LP's and hopefully take my wife to go find some for us to share."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Enjoy your new addiction.The best sound comes when your having fun.
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Boy, this makes some of us feel really old --"have my dad over more to listen to his old LP's."
Some of us can remember when all that was available were 45s, and then 33 1/3 LPs were God's gift to those who loved recorded music.
Whew! Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.
Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One. -
Vinyl is cute for nostalgia, not much more. But if you enjoy it that's all that counts. Watch your wallet!!!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Dan, what I'm seeing is you are sending everything thru the DAC in your AVR and that's why your digital (that includes CD's) is leaving you wanting.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Moose68Bash wrote: »Boy, this makes some of us feel really old --"have my dad over more to listen to his old LP's."
Some of us can remember when all that was available were 45s, and then 33 1/3 LPs were God's gift to those who loved recorded music.
Whew!
Yup, I am a end of cassette tape and beginning of CD kinda kid. I grew up for a bit with cassette players and then CD players... so LP's were and still are kinda foreign to me.
My dad told me when I was little I would come downstairs and request specific songs when he was playing LP's but I dont remember it much...pearsall001 wrote: »Vinyl is cute for nostalgia, not much more. But if you enjoy it that's all that counts. Watch your wallet!!!
Yup, thats where I am at right now. I am not going to go crazy just yet, but its definitely fun for a change of pace.Dan, what I'm seeing is you are sending everything thru the DAC in your AVR and that's why your digital (that includes CD's) is leaving you wanting.
Yes, I am sending everything through my Integra's DAC's. I was under the impression that those DAC's were pretty good. Here are the specs.
Any thoughts on how I would go about improving things? Should I be looking at an external USB DAC to put between my laptop and AVR or what would you do to improve things."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »Yes, I am sending everything through my Integra's DAC's. I was under the impression that those DAC's were pretty good. Here are the specs.
Any thoughts on how I would go about improving things? Should I be looking at an external USB DAC to put between my laptop and AVR or what would you do to improve things.
Separates! :razz: -
Yes, I am sending everything through my Integra's DAC's. I was under the impression that those DAC's were pretty good. Here are the specs.
Any thoughts on how I would go about improving things? Should I be looking at an external USB DAC to put between my laptop and AVR or what would you do to improve things.
I would never listen to music using an AVR, but that's just me. As for solid suggestions, other than a dedicated 2 channel music rig, there are others here with better knowledge in that area than I.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
F1 is right. Get a decent DAC and pre with HT bypass and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.
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EndersShadow wrote: »Any thoughts on how I would go about improving things? Should I be looking at an external USB DAC to put between my laptop and AVR or what would you do to improve things.
My W4S DAC2 trumped my older Sony CDP which was a step above my Yamaha AVR for music. The latter is now retired for everything but movies. Your experience will likely be the same if you get a quality DAC. For your wallet's sake let's hope you don't hear a difference with an external DAC.
I was pretty impressed by vinyl when I heard it for the first time. The speaker set up wasn't ideal, but the music was very engaging. I'll probably try it out in the distant future when the cash flow improves. -
I have found that external DAC's on the Integra models makes no difference , if anything it sounds worse due to the fact that they digitize analog in so the signal is going from digital to analog then back to digital and then back to analog. This sucks **** so using the internal DAC"s on your Integra is as good as it's going to get with it.
As for listening to vinyl , it's a good thing but there is a way to get it in the digital world and retain that sound quality your digging , it's called "Pure Vinyl" , It's for the Mac and I'm not sure if they are going to release a version for the PC. I heard some Vinyl rips and I can tell you it's amazing. Crazy dnamics and super clear with no pops and clicks like most Vinyl "dirty" playback sounds like. Actually Vinyl is not supposed to have the Pops and clicks , thats due to dirty needles and records.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I have some pretty good digital sources and a good external DAC, but I still enjoy vinyl. I'm not saying one is superior to the other. They are just different. There are things about vinyl that I prefer to digital and vice versa. They both have their merits.
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I'm in the process of falling into the vinyl rabbit hole which - yes it is very addictive. If you have any soldering/DIY skills you may want to consider building a phono preamp kit - I've been drooling over the tube based Bottlehead Seduction.
Don't listen to the vinyl nay sayers, I have a decent CD player (Jolida JD-100) with upgraded tubes, and I prefer the sound of my crappy cheap 80's Akia TT. Once my VPI Traveler and Ortofon 2M Blue arrive I expect things to get even better.
Yes CD's are probably more accurate then vinyl, but that doesn't explain why vinyl sounds so much more 3 dimensional.2-Channel System
Analog: VPI Traveler TT, Audio Technica 150MLX, Pro-Ject Tube Box DS
CD Player: Jolida JD-100 Preamp: Cambridge 840E Amp: Odyssey Kismet Stereo
Spkrs: Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature Systems -
I would never listen to music using an AVR, but that's just me. As for solid suggestions, other than a dedicated 2 channel music rig, there are others here with better knowledge in that area than I.
Yeah I am working on that, however I dont really have the space for an ideal setup in my office so my compromise is my setup downstairs which I can use for music at times.I have found that external DAC's on the Integra models makes no difference , if anything it sounds worse due to the fact that they digitize analog in so the signal is going from digital to analog then back to digital and then back to analog. This sucks **** so using the internal DAC"s on your Integra is as good as it's going to get with it.
I was hoping you would weigh in here on the DACs in the Integra. I had a feeling there wasnt much to improve without going down a very expensive separates trail. Would you say the newer Integra's have better DAC's/sound over the older ones? I.E. would upgrading to something like the 50.4 net me anything?As for listening to vinyl , it's a good thing but there is a way to get it in the digital world and retain that sound quality your digging , it's called "Pure Vinyl" , It's for the Mac and I'm not sure if they are going to release a version for the PC. I heard some Vinyl rips and I can tell you it's amazing. Crazy dynamics and super clear with no pops and clicks like most Vinyl "dirty" playback sounds like. Actually Vinyl is not supposed to have the Pops and clicks , thats due to dirty needles and records.
Yeah there wasn't any pop or hiss on my dads stuff, it was stored right. I am however not really wanting to invest the time to rip all his LP's to digital. I am ok with having some LP's and keeping this setup for when I want to enjoy just spinning some LP's.
I was more surprised overall with the difference in SOUND from the LP's v my all digital setup. It just sounded downright BETTER. I am not dis-satisfied with my digital setup by any means, its about as good as I can get it baring buying better HDMI cables (which is on my list to do). I just noticed how much more lifelike things sounded on the LP's.
There are many things it could have been, such as my newer music is mastered differently than the stuff I was listening too, the DAC's in my Integra were obviously involved, ect.Obsession18 wrote: »I'm in the process of falling into the vinyl rabbit hole which - yes it is very addictive. If you have any soldering/DIY skills you may want to consider building a phono preamp kit - I've been drooling over the tube based Bottlehead Seduction.
Yeah, I have seen those, although TBH I dont have those skills so in my case I would just buy this little fella and be done. It gets pretty good reviews online. I am more than likely picking up a phono pre in the near future for downstairs, but its going to be under 100 as I am trying to keep costs down for now.Obsession18 wrote: »Don't listen to the vinyl nay sayers, I have a decent CD player (Jolida JD-100) with upgraded tubes, and I prefer the sound of my crappy cheap 80's Akia TT. Once my VPI Traveler and Ortofon 2M Blue arrive I expect things to get even better.
Yes CD's are probably more accurate then vinyl, but that doesn't explain why vinyl sounds so much more 3 dimensional.
Thats kinda where I am too.
I will listen to their advice and thoughts, but will let my ears be the final judge.
Like I said though, I really need to do a A/B test between something on Vinyl and a FLAC recording to see what is different. Maybe it totally is the newer source files that are missing what I heard on the LP's. I am totally open to that idea."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
"Electric Lycanthrope," if he has it . . . .
THANX for the neophyte nudge = I've got to get off my duff & put the first belt on my Marantz TT-15. I never dreamed I would one day have a ~ $1K phono cartridge.
I worked part time in the record dept. @ a dept. store (70s term), for $2.25/hr, with an LP costing $2.98. A couple years back, I asked a BB clerk if she made slightly less/hr than the price of a CD . . . Yep. Seems the cost of music is relatively on track as a portion of income: you can't work enough hours in a week to buy all the music that comes out. :cheesygrin:
Hmmmmm, your remark about not digitizing your Dad's LPs, rubs me the wrong way = in that's my intention. I was anal about my records, almost never let anyone else slip one out of its liner. Routine: lovingly lay LP on the B&O 3000; put a few drops of fluid on the Discwasher and lightly remove the dust as the label rotated. Press one button & the needle drops into the groove (in reverse of lasers, I believe). Listen. Flip & repeat.
In 1975, I splurged for a Pioneer CTF-9191 & promptly installed a Craig cassette deck in my new Toyota Hilux SR5. I would never go back to 8-tracks. I transferred (ripped?) my LPs to cassette & from that day on, never really listened to vinyl again (what can I say, convenience was King).
The routine was to buy a new LP, Discwash Side A, listen & set the recording level. Record. Flip, & repeat. Slip the LP back in its cover. So, I have LPs from the period 1975-1990 that were played < 2 times, ~ 5 feet of them.
My wife had me stop buying LPs to save up for a CDP . . . took a couple of years. When the B&O died, I picked up a RatShack linear tracker @ closeout . . . . who would ever buy a turntable again?
Moral of this story? Look for aging hippies' LP caches in senior center sales . . . beware of seeds falling out of double album covers (indicates less than stellar LP maintenance). Note to Self: put that belt on & prepare for hearing those LPs for their 3rd playing. -
The mastering has a lot to do with sound. And modern mastering other than small guys like Blue Note
pretty much stinks.Add to the fact most records of the 1950-1980 era will never find their way to cd.
These are the reasons LP's are still around."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Vinyl can be a real eye-opener when setup properly.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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^^agreed^^ my latest turntable addition has absolutely blown me away.
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For me it has come down to Vinyl sounds better than digital music but digital music sounds better than vinyl.I got static in my head
The reflected sound of everything -
I find vinyl to be a more relaxing listen. When I want to focus on detail, I listen to digital. When I want to just kick back and listen to something, I'm really enjoying vinyl again.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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:-)sucks2beme wrote: »The mastering has a lot to do with sound. And modern mastering other than small guys like Blue Note
pretty much stinks.Add to the fact most records of the 1950-1980 era will never find their way to cd.
These are the reasons LP's are still around.
... same reasons that some of us like to listen to the same loudspeakers on which much of the best-mastered stuff was monitored.
pearsall001 wrote: »Vinyl is cute for nostalgia, not much more. But if you enjoy it that's all that counts. Watch your wallet!!!
oh, yeah - vinyl playback is very quaint... no reason to take it seriously in our enlightened, modern age.
I do agree about watching one's wallet...
