For those who haven't heard LP's

2

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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited December 2012
    ^Good Lord, is that two different tonearms? Is one for 45's and one for 33's or something lol.....

    I can see someone spent a pretty penny there for sure.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited December 2012
    ^^Wow^^ That is sweet! What kind of TT is that? I know the plinth is custom (looks like bamboo, very nice!). Also, dual tonearms, again very sweet. What kind of tonearms and cartridges are you running with that? Give me the details man, that is one awesome setup!
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited December 2012
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    ^Good Lord, is that two different tonearms? Is one for 45's and one for 33's or something lol.....

    Or 78's and 33/45's. Or two different cartridges, one that does rock, one for jazz, one mono one stereo, etc.

    I can see someone spent a pretty penny there for sure.....

    That [looks like] a Garrad 301 on custom plinth. Adding weight tends to damp the mechanicals of idler drive tables and the larger size allows for multiple arms. Slate is another popular but pricey option, unless you DIY the cuts.

    In my experience, you don't have to spend a fortune on either to sound good. I have found your listening returns depend on investment in either. For instance, when I had more invested in digital, my dear friend Norm (RIP) just didn't get excited about my vinyl. When I invested more in vinyl playback, he said "now I see what the fuss is all about."


    lenco_1-1-1.jpg

    Then I went DIY and this less than $2K total investment Lenco/MG-1 tonearm bested a near $9K retail pricing investment in current production turntable gear. That would be a Nottingham Space 294 with Gold 12" Moerch DP6 arm and Notttingham Wave Mechanic speed controller. All that gear was bought used to beat the depreciation and does not take into account the phono stage cost. Same cartridge used on both tables, a Dynavector 17D3.

    ttring.jpg

    And I would put my Lenco idler drive up against anything costing 10 times more.:wink:

    Just be happy with your new found listening enjoyment.

    EDIT: Then I went DIY with a DAC and experimented with various ways to make digital sound even better than before......:cheesygrin:
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited December 2012
    The tt I photographed isn't mine - cheap SOB that I am - it is a Garrard 401 transcription turntable; not 100% sure about either arm; the 12" arm might be a Shick(?). (EDIT - yeah pretty sure it's a Shick; I don't know about the other one) I am sure that the cartridge playing in the second photo uses an electromagnet :-) You'll note the extra pair of wires energizing the field coil.

    The system's owner is Dave Slagle www.intactaudio.com who is a coil/transformer kind of guy. The sound is superb.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited December 2012
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Just be happy with your new found listening enjoyment.

    I am. I am going to get a phono pre so I dont need to keep karting the Yamaha downstairs everytime I want to listen and thats about it for now. I might DIY a isolation platform since its a low cost project I can do. Might not make too much of a difference but it gives me something to do :wink:

    I will be getting some basic cleaning supplies, so suggestions on brushes, cleaning solutions, ect would be appreciated. I am NOT looking to get something like a spin clean, just a couple small ticket items to be able to clean LP's as needed.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • hochpt21
    hochpt21 Posts: 5,423
    edited December 2012
    I'm late to this thread, but welcome to vinyl :)

    I figured you'd like it. I'm about the same age as you and picked up the hobby 3 or 4 years ago. Maybe it's more exciting to us 'youngins' because we weren't around when that's mostly all there was, but my enjoyment of vinyl hasn't waned at this point. I've slowly made modest upgrades and have enjoyed it at every step. (even the crosley plastic unit that got me into it :redface:)
    2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited December 2012
    The Disk Doctor brushes and fluid work well (are they still available?).
    If you (ever) decide to invest in a RCM, get a real RCM (VPI or Nitty-Gritty, e.g.), not a toy.

    A carbon fibre brush is a good investment - they're sold under many brand names; most (not all) are the same, though. The one I have is branded "Audioquest".

    There's a very interesting thread on AK right now about the superiority of Oznow Zerodust for stylus cleaning. Stuff ain't cheap... but the feedback is 100% favorable.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited December 2012
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    ....I am going to get a phono pre .....

    Do you have any in mind?

    Not sure of your budget. I sold my Nottingham table to a friend and took it there and set it up for him. He had a Music Hall PA-1.2 phono stage (~$170 IIRC). I was very surprised how good it sounded. Or build a Hagerman Bugle. They pop up used from time to time on ebay/Audiogon/forums but are sold quickly.

    Just a comment about the old idler drive tables. The idlers were designed with large motors, having gobs of torque to plow through the grooves of 78's at 8 grams or more of stylus pressure. However the plinths they were installed in did not effectively suppress the vibes of the high torque motors and drives introduced into the plinth. It was thought the idlers were not needed anymore with the emergence of the vinyl LP, but some folks felt they provided absolutely rock steady, unvarying speed no matter what difficult passage the stylus was tracking. The formula is to ensure they are set up properly and install them in a heavy plinth.

    Here is some good reading about the Garrad 301 that also applies to the old Lenco and Thorens idler drive tables. There are multiple pages. Proper maintenance and setup is essential of course, regardless of plinth used. The downside, audiophile types drove up the price so even a beater table will fetch high prices.

    http://www.wduk.worldomain.net/slatedeck.html
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited December 2012
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    A carbon fibre brush is a good investment - they're sold under many brand names; most (not all) are the same, though. The one I have is branded "Audioquest".

    There's a very interesting thread on AK right now about the superiority of Oznow Zerodust for stylus cleaning. Stuff ain't cheap... but the feedback is 100% favorable.

    Good to know, will check those out
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    The Disk Doctor brushes and fluid work well (are they still available?).
    If you (ever) decide to invest in a RCM, get a real RCM (VPI or Nitty-Gritty, e.g.), not a toy.

    I assume your talking about getting those instead of something like the Spin Clean? RCM = ??
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Do you have any in mind?

    Not sure of your budget. I sold my Nottingham table to a friend and took it there and set it up for him. He had a Music Hall PA-1.2 phono stage (~$170 IIRC). I was very surprised how good it sounded. Or build a Hagerman Bugle. They pop up used from time to time on ebay/Audiogon/forums but are sold quickly.

    More than likely a Parsound Zphono someone here on the forum offered to sell me. Price is right. Otherwise if I was going to go all in the Vellari 240 tubed phono pre for like 250 gets lots of good reviews... but thats MUCH more than I want to spend.

    Will look into the Bugler, the name has popped up a couple times but honestly the Parasound is probably what I will get.
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Just a comment about the old idler drive tables. The idlers were designed with large motors, having gobs of torque to plow through the grooves of 78's at 8 grams or more of stylus pressure. However the plinths they were installed in did not effectively suppress the vibes of the high torque motors and drives introduced into the plinth. It was thought the idlers were not needed anymore with the emergence of the vinyl LP, but some folks felt they provided absolutely rock steady, unvarying speed no matter what difficult passage the stylus was tracking. The formula is to ensure they are set up properly and install them in a heavy plinth.

    Here is some good reading about the Garrad 301 that also applies to the old Lenco and Thorens idler drive tables. There are multiple pages. Proper maintenance and setup is essential of course, regardless of plinth used. The downside, audiophile types drove up the price so even a beater table will fetch high prices.

    http://www.wduk.worldomain.net/slatedeck.html

    Will read up on this, but I dont think it applies to my TT. Its not really that heavy at all and I am not sure making a plinth would be worth it.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited December 2012
    Sony%20Biotracer%20002.jpg
    Even though the one in the picture above is not my table, mine is just like it with the exception I have put a Soundsmith modded Dynavector 20XH Cart on it. I am blown away by the performance of this table. I bought it from RTart here on the board for $450. I have another $500 in a Jolida JD9 phono pre with RCA BP 12AX7 tubes and modded op-amps and I paid $500 used for the cartridge. The performance for less than $1500 that this set-up gives is simply incredible. Vinyl and tubes rule!
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited December 2012
    If you plan to take the vinyl even halfway serious at least buy the SpinClean.It makes a world of differnce.Much better than just a hand job.;)
    I sold mine and graduated to a RCM but that will come in time if you are really enjoying it 6 months from now.
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited December 2012
    brgman wrote: »
    If you plan to take the vinyl even halfway serious at least buy the SpinClean.It makes a world of differnce.Much better than just a hand job.;)
    I sold mine and graduated to a RCM but that will come in time if you are really enjoying it 6 months from now.

    I spent twice as much on my RCM as I did on my turntable. Worth every penny.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2012
    And then the sky opened up and a light came down from heaven and shone right on my entire setup...I looked up and realized that it was only a beam from a mother ship that was pulling me up for...?
    treitz3 wrote: »
    I swear I've seen this somewhere before...





    Too funny. :cool:

    Tom

    I think it was from Project Blue Book! lol See some of those TTs above? Alien Technology! Am I wrong? I don't think so; it's the mystery of vinyl finally solved. Not ancient technology but extraterrestrial designs from an advanced civilization whose entire tech is analog rather than "digital"!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • hochpt21
    hochpt21 Posts: 5,423
    edited December 2012
    I assume your talking about getting those instead of something like the Spin Clean? RCM = ??

    Record Cleaning Machine...they utilize a vacuum to suck the dirt out, not just wipe it around. I think about $400 is as cheap as your gonna find for a basic quality one. That's what I (my wife) spent on my nitty.
    2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2012
    No better vacuum than outer space, now is there? Sorry I couldn't resist. I've heard classical stations who use all this cleaning tech and I still hear surface noise in their broadcasts.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • hochpt21
    hochpt21 Posts: 5,423
    edited December 2012
    I'm not saying you'll never hear surface noise, but the difference before and after is remarkable.
    2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited December 2012
    Even though I have bought a VPI RCM, I still used my Spin Clean as a pre-wash for really dirty thrift store finds. It works great.

    Oh BTW, those are some really sweet turntables SCompRacer. I bet they sound great.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited December 2012
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    The tt I photographed isn't mine - cheap SOB that I am - it is a Garrard 401 transcription turntable; not 100% sure about either arm; the 12" arm might be a Shick(?). (EDIT - yeah pretty sure it's a Shick; I don't know about the other one) I am sure that the cartridge playing in the second photo uses an electromagnet :-) You'll note the extra pair of wires energizing the field coil.

    The system's owner is Dave Slagle www.intactaudio.com who is a coil/transformer kind of guy. The sound is superb.

    heh, I - of course - meant to type Garrard 301[/i]. Sorry! :-P

    DSC_5222.jpg
    This is the system we were listening to. The horns contain coax drivers (based, I believe, on Lowther chassis) with field coils on (I believe) both the fullrange and the tweeter drivers - atop conventional permanent magnet, open baffle woofers. The amp was a single-ended creation (Dave's own, I believe) running the truly obscure and rare (today) and 'spensive 50 DHT for outputs. Sound was very, very good. Real "they are here" stuff.
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  • codyc1ark
    codyc1ark Posts: 2,532
    edited December 2012
    *thread crap*

    Something something about bass management and why your system is so awful..





    That is all, move along.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2012
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    heh, I - of course - meant to type Garrard 301[/i]. Sorry! :-P

    DSC_5222.jpg
    This is the system we were listening to. The horns contain coax drivers (based, I believe, on Lowther chassis) with field coils on (I believe) both the fullrange and the tweeter drivers - atop conventional permanent magnet, open baffle woofers. The amp was a single-ended creation (Dave's own, I believe) running the truly obscure and rare (today) and 'spensive 50 DHT for outputs. Sound was very, very good. Real "they are here" stuff.

    Just imagine "how much more" we would here if our ears were as big as those horns? lol

    Maybe there will be evolutionary pressure in that direction for Audiopithecus Americanus?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Polkersince85
    Polkersince85 Posts: 2,883
    edited December 2012
    cnh wrote: »
    Just imagine "how much more" we would here if our ears were as big as those horns? lol

    Maybe there will be evolutionary pressure in that direction for Audiopithecus Americanus?

    cnh

    Or maybe Domphuchas Idioti
    >
    >
    >This message has been scanned by the NSA and found to be free of harmful intent.<
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,418
    edited December 2012
    Dan, how your wife must be hating me right about now. I appologize for any influence I might have had in turning you into a vinyl-****. It is still not to late to seek help for you. This is the most dangerous addiction in all of audio. I should know. My name is John and I am a vinylholic.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited December 2012
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Dan, how your wife must be hating me right about now. I appologize for any influence I might have had in turning you into a vinyl-****. It is still not to late to seek help for you. This is the most dangerous addiction in all of audio. I should know. My name is John and I am a vinylholic.

    :-)

    DSC_5934.jpg

    I've got maybe a third of the licorice pizzae moved in to their new abode as of last week... thanks to the generosity of an AKer, I have a second Expedit unit now and may be able to actually get all of 'em in one place (instead of the rather large collection of boxes now residing in the basement(s)).

    DSC_5938.jpg

    ... just have to move the crap that's already settled on the second Expedit :-P ...
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited December 2012
    Polkersince85 wrote: »
    Or maybe Domphuchas Idioti

    Amen.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited December 2012
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Dan, how your wife must be hating me right about now. I appologize for any influence I might have had in turning you into a vinyl-****. It is still not to late to seek help for you. This is the most dangerous addiction in all of audio. I should know. My name is John and I am a vinylholic.

    Eh, she is hating anyone but me right now since the Yamaha R-300 is still hooked up as is the TT. Once I move it to my office and connect it up there I think she will be fine. She is too busy organizing the nursery right now to really notice too much...
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    :-)

    I've got maybe a third of the licorice pizzae moved in to their new abode as of last week... thanks to the generosity of an AKer, I have a second Expedit unit now and may be able to actually get all of 'em in one place (instead of the rather large collection of boxes now residing in the basement(s)).

    .. just have to move the crap that's already settled on the second Expedit :-P ...

    Yeah, I need to look into a couple little boxes or organizers to be able to store LP's I start to get myself. Any suggestions on cheap options?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    edited December 2012
    Vinyl can be very enjoyable, and like TNHNDYMAN said, it can be enjoyed for not much money. I grew up with vinyl and lots of people I know had some very modest systems that sounded real nice. There's some very nice vintage equipment around that is very reasonably priced. Sometimes its nice to not be so serious and just have fun.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited December 2012
    dromunds wrote: »
    Vinyl can be very enjoyable, and like TNHNDYMAN said, it can be enjoyed for not much money. I grew up with vinyl and lots of people I know had some very modest systems that sounded real nice. There's some very nice vintage equipment around that is very reasonably priced. Sometimes its nice to not be so serious and just have fun.

    Yup, I think thats where I am gonna stay for now. Get some small cleaning supplies, some decent midrange IC's and start buying LP's and see where it goes from there.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2012
    Polkersince85 wrote: »
    Or maybe Domphuchas Idioti

    Always remember:

    "Anyone who cannot imagine a horse galloping on the surface of a tomato is an idiot!" (Andre Breton).

    Imagination, laughter, humanity? Remember what Harry Haller was sentenced to?

    mhardy, love the room. Just how big is it? Looks like most of your top floor?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • shadowlight
    shadowlight Posts: 327
    edited December 2012
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Yeah, I need to look into a couple little boxes or organizers to be able to store LP's I start to get myself. Any suggestions on cheap options?

    Dan, I use Ikea Expedit for storage. Ikea has a smaller 4 shelves version for 40 bucks.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited December 2012
    The Expedit family is dandy for records - there are a variety of sizes; mine are 4 x 4; they go up to 5 x 5 and down to 1 x 4 (if memory serves...?).

    For small collections of records (and/or for transport!) it is hard to beat the old-style plastic "milk crates". The ones still being sold today by housewares places ("Bed, Bath, and Beyond" and the like) that are sized to hold hanging file folders will also hold LPs quite comfortably.
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