Spikes for SDA-SRS

TennMan

westmassguy wrote: »

To add to my last post, the "Bass Brace" used on the larger SRS models, is an example of coupling. The brace, which is a solid threaded rod, directly couples the rear of the speaker cabinet to the wall behind it. The wall, which in theory has greater mass and stiffness, will absorb and dissapate vibrations from the speaker. The ultimate coupling would be properly installed spikes, and the "Bass Brace".

I agree with what you are saying. I've been told I should spike my stands for my 10Bs but I can't get a good picture in my head how that would work without also making a solid connection between the stands and the speakers. What are your thoughts on that?

westmassguy

TennMan wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying. I've been told I should spike my stands for my 10Bs but I can't get a good picture in my head how that would work without also making a solid connection between the stands and the speakers. What are your thoughts on that?

This will sound like blasphemy, but the only way to insure a solid connection between the stand and the speaker cabinet, would be to screw or bolt the stand to the bottom of the speaker. If you pre-drill your holes, the damage to the particle board will be minimal, and can easily be filled if the stands are not used at some point in the future. The spikes installed on the bottom of the stands would be directly coupled to the speaker.

Schurkey

nspindel wrote: »

Mmmmmm, not true. The point of spikes is to decouple the speaker from the floor, so that the point of contact between the speaker and the floor is as small as possible. This way, the speaker cabinet doesn't transfer resonance to the floor. This is very much necessary with wood floors. It is correct that you do not want the spikes directly on the wood floors or you can damage them. But they make base pieces designed to go under the spikes to protect the wood floor. Or... use a quarter.

Opposite, in fact.

The point (!!!) of the spike is to COUPLE the speaker to the TRUE FLOOR, avoiding the DE-coupling that the squishy carpet provides. The point pierces the carpet and pad, assuring that the speaker is as "mechanically grounded" to the floor as possible, so the floor can stabilize the speaker to the largest extent possible. Therefore a concrete floor is superior to a wood-joist floor, the wood joist floor is itself somewhat flexible. (Nowhere near as movable/wobbly as a speaker cabinet on a big, thick carpet pad and heavy carpet, though.)

Putting spikes on quarters or on floor-protectors on a hard-surface floor is silly. The spikes couple to the quarter...or to the floor protector...but the protector does not couple as well to the floor because the surface area is larger than the plastic feet the speaker came with. The consumer is screwed by the tweak industry twice. Once for protectors that defeat the purpose of the spikes, and again for spikes that aren't providing their proper amount of benefit.

If you have a hard surface for the speakers, the reasonably-hard plastic "feet" are sufficient, and cost no extra in money or in labor.

evhudsons

My srs2 already had threads in them, so all I had to do was screw spikes in them. Did you already look to see if you have threads or not?

PolkieMan

The point (!!!) of the spike is to COUPLE the speaker to the TRUE FLOOR


Yes now that makes more sense. just like the Bass Brace is supposed to do almost the same thing as far as making the speaker position rigid and solid. Boy I bet once you put those spikes in those heavy guys they really put a hole in your carpet and of course you can forget about sliding them around a bit to clean behind them. With the Bass Brace I can just take it off slide them around and put them back.

Schurkey wrote: »

Opposite, in fact.

The point (!!!) of the spike is to COUPLE the speaker to the TRUE FLOOR, avoiding the DE-coupling that the squishy carpet provides. The point pierces the carpet and pad, assuring that the speaker is as "mechanically grounded" to the floor as possible, so the floor can stabilize the speaker to the largest extent possible. Therefore a concrete floor is superior to a wood-joist floor, the wood joist floor is itself somewhat flexible. (Nowhere near as movable/wobbly as a speaker cabinet on a big, thick carpet pad and heavy carpet, though.)

Putting spikes on quarters or on floor-protectors on a hard-surface floor is silly. The spikes couple to the quarter...or to the floor protector...but the protector does not couple as well to the floor because the surface area is larger than the plastic feet the speaker came with. The consumer is screwed by the tweak industry twice. Once for protectors that defeat the purpose of the spikes, and again for spikes that aren't providing their proper amount of benefit.

If you have a hard surface for the speakers, the reasonably-hard plastic "feet" are sufficient, and cost no extra in money or in labor.

Toolfan66

The spikes do not leave a big hole in the carpet:rolleyes: get your learn on..

And the bass brace is not a substitution for spikes, spikes are a 1000 times better then that all thread in the wall. again get your learn on and try it. And i clean around my speakers just fine without moving them..


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Bugstyvy

evhudsons wrote: »

My srs2 already had threads in them, so all I had to do was screw spikes in them. Did you already look to see if you have threads or not?

Yes they have threads, anyone know what size/thread they are? recommendation for spikes?

evhudsons

yes sir, your life just got soooo much better! The size is pretty standard, and the link in post #12 by F1nut provided above is a great lead to quality spikes for very little money. You don't want to do the little thin spikes with the srs due to size and weight. The diy link is excellent, I did not know about it before I got mine from Meniscus audio, but I really really like my meniscus spikes. They are on back order right now, I get a couple of sets or so in about 3 weeks.

here's the link for the spikes that I got that simply screw into the holes you already have, super simple:

http://meniscusaudio.com/extra-points-p-1292.html

as you can see they are sold out right now but they told me 3 to 4 weeks. they are excellent and the price too. At one time there was a code "polkme" that would get you free shipping but I don't they do that now. The link above from the diy link is silly prices for apparently great spikes, and they probably have them in stock.

It's night and day difference to me, and many others, but some people say they don't hear much difference. Either way, they help a lot, and look great as well as protecting your speaker and floor.

to answer your question: the spikes I'm using is 1/4-20, and that should work for you too. It's fairly standard.

motorstereo

After reading this thread now I'm wondering about using spikes as opposed to the bass brace that I currently use. My 1.2s don't sit on carpet so I'm worried about flooring damage. Putting a coin under the spikes seems to me like it's defeating the purpose of spiking the speakers in the first place. Just when I don't think the big polks can sound any better.............

westmassguy

motorstereo wrote: »

After reading this thread now I'm wondering about using spikes as opposed to the bass brace that I currently use. My 1.2s don't sit on carpet so I'm worried about flooring damage. Putting a coin under the spikes seems to me like it's defeating the purpose of spiking the speakers in the first place. Just when I don't think the big polks can sound any better.............

Spike manufactures do make complimetary cups which sit under the spike, and prevent it from digging into the floor. Unlike the coin, which has an irregular surface on both sides, these cups have an indent on the top side for the point of the spike to sit in, and are machined flat on the bottom for more surface contact.
Regarding the Bass Brace, it's original purpose was to comply with federal safety guidelines for tip-over hazzard. The ability to dampen cabinet resonances or vibrations was an unintended benifit. In no way does it compare to adding spikes.

Dawgfish

I'll throw my two cents in. I've seen many comments stating "don't exactly know how spikes work" and the argument wether the spikes actually couple or decouple the speakers to the floor. It's actually simple physics the way spikes work, as the diameter of the spike decreases energy is dissapated. When moving from a larger diameter to a small diameter, not as much energy can be stored or transported as the larger diameter area above it. Therefore as energy moves from the larger diameter area to the smaller diameter, energy is dissapated. The spikes do not allow some of the sound energy to be transfered to the floor and instead more of the sound energy is being transfered out into the listening area as the speaker was designed to do. The spikes are designed to decouple speaker energy from the floor. Having said this, for the spikes to do their job, the point of the spike actually needs to be firmly touching the ground surface. Therefore the use of spike cups on hard or wooden floors does not defeat the function of the spikes as the cups essentially act as part of the floor or ground surface.

westmassguy

From the mouth of MP: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?133384-All-the-Polk-SDA-upgrades-located-in-one-place!&highlight=bass+brace
See post #6

westmassguy

Dawgfish wrote: »

I'll throw my two cents in. I've seen many comments stating "don't exactly know how spikes work" and the argument wether the spikes actually couple or decouple the speakers to the floor. It's actually simple physics the way spikes work, as the diameter of the spike decreases energy is dissapated. When moving from a larger diameter to a small diameter, not as much energy can be stored or transported as the larger diameter area above it. Therefore as energy moves from the larger diameter area to the smaller diameter, energy is dissapated. The spikes do not allow some of the sound energy to be transfered to the floor and instead more of the sound energy is being transfered out into the listening area as the speaker was designed to do. The spikes are designed to decouple speaker energy from the floor. Having said this, for the spikes to do their job, the point of the spike actually needs to be firmly touching the ground surface. Therefore the use of spike cups on hard or wooden floors does not defeat the function of the spikes as the cups essentially act as part of the floor or ground surface.

I disaggree. I'm not an engineer, but I do have an engineering background, and have extensive experience de-coupling large vibrating equipment. The spikes don't dissapate enegy, they focus it. When properly installed, with equal distribution of weight, and that's a lot of weight from the SRS line, the effect is nearly the same as if you actually bolted the speaker to the floor.

As with all tall objects that are anchored at their base, the farther up you go, the less effect the anchor has on resonance, vibration and lateral movement. The "Bass Brace" will help mitigate vibrations higher up.

motorstereo

I was thinking about those cups underneath the spikes but it seems to me it would be pretty much the same thing as the metal footers which I have installed right now on them. I fussed over placement for quite a spell as I could easily hear the difference in the slightest movement. I used a straightedge, a level, and a tape measure to get mine as close to perfect in their present setting as I possibly could. i'm thinking I'd have to lay these guys down and screw the spikes in.
Now how does one go about getting them back into their exact place without causing significant damage to the floor? I'm not quite strong enough to bearhug and lift them completely off the floor for placement. If that was the case I'd probably already have the spikes installed on them.
Hmmm; now I go and read MP thoughts on the bass brace. Better than spikes and upgraded cables says Mr. Polk. Now who am I to argue with the creator of all things Polk?

Dawgfish

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Not an engineer either, but I am a scientist with an extensive physics background. Spikes and other cone shaped objects do indeed dissapate energy. This is the main reason I have not commented on this and already regret posting on this, these subjects become a pissing match. Everybody has their theories on this.

westmassguy

motorstereo wrote: »

I was thinking about those cups underneath the spikes but it seems to me it would be pretty much the same thing as the metal footers which I have installed right now on them. I fussed over placement for quite a spell as I could easily hear the difference in the slightest movement. I used a straightedge, a level, and a tape measure to get mine as close to perfect in their present setting as I possibly could. i'm thinking I'd have to lay these guys down and screw the spikes in.
Now how does one go about getting them back into their exact place without causing significant damage to the floor? I'm not quite strong enough to bearhug and lift them completely off the floor for placement. If that was the case I'd probably already have the spikes installed on them.
Hmmm; now I go and read MP thoughts on the bass brace. Better than spikes and upgraded cables says Mr. Polk. Now who am I to argue with the creator of all things Polk?

I would say that everything is cumulative. From what others have said, whose comments I generally trust, the spikes are better than the brace, and the brace is better than nothing. Added together they form a complete anchoring package.
If your speakers have the threaded inserts, then I would mark their location on the floor with chalk or lightly with a pencil. Have someone tip the speaker back slightly, enough to get some blocking under it. Thread the new spikes in place. Tip the speaker back again, remove the blocks, place the cups in position, and let the speaker come back to rest on the cups. Do the same for the back side.

westmassguy

Dawgfish wrote: »

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Not an engineer either, but I am a scientist with an extensive physics background. Spikes and other cone shaped objects do indeed dissapate energy. This is the main reason I have not commented on this and already regret posting on this, these subjects become a pissing match. Everybody has their theories on this.

I aggree, I despise pissing contests and **** for tat. My advise, try the spikes, if they work for you, great, same for the Bass Brace.

Dawgfish

westmassguy wrote: »

I aggree, I despise pissing contests and **** for tat. My advise, try the spikes, if they work for you, great, same for the Bass Brace.

Couldn't agree with you more on this. No way to tell for sure wether thay will work for the OP with their set-up other than to try both for themselves and see. Cheers!

Schurkey

Bugstyvy wrote: »

Yes they have threads, anyone know what size/thread they are?

I'd expect 1/4-20, but they may use other sizes; and I don't think it's impossible that different Polk speakers may use different thread sizes.

Look and see.

Bugstyvy wrote: »

recommendation for spikes?

I made my own with a hack-saw, bench-grinder and 1/4-20 bolts and hardware Cut the heads off, sharpen the shank, thread 'em into hurricane nuts pressed into the base of my 1Bs. Secured with jam nuts. 1 pleasant hour or less, under $5; totally invisible.

'Course the little 1Bs are small enough for one guy to bear-hug and move around, lay on their backs for working clearance, etc.

Toolfan66

westmassguy wrote: »

I aggree, I despise pissing contests and **** for tat. My advise, try the spikes, if they work for you, great, same for the Bass Brace.

Dawgfish wrote: »

Couldn't agree with you more on this. No way to tell for sure wether thay will work for the OP with their set-up other than to try both for themselves and see. Cheers!

This!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^This!!!

Moose68Bash

Bugstyvy wrote: »

Ok, instead of wanting to keep them original, I should now drill spikes in the bottom and gut the insides like a fish? replace the tweets and punch holes in the mids like Punch-a-bunch on the Price Is Right?

Attachment not found.

Nice picture -- cute but not cogent!

Ignoring your sarcasm, I suggest simply that you carefully drill holes for threaded inserts to receive the spikes. Many SDA SRS models (such as my SRS1.2as) were originally built with precisely the facility that I recommended. But, they are your speakers, and you definitely should follow your own lights.

However, I respectfully suggest that if you expect members of the forum to proffer advice from their experience and wisdom, then you should consider treating their advice -- whether it fits with "your own lights" or not -- at least advice offered in good faith and with good intentions. I, for one, can say unequivocally, that the prior experience, the wisdom and the advice I (a relative newbie) received from many members of this forum were what made it possible for me to get REALLY GOOD SOUND from my vintage Polks. That advice was generously and freely given.

PolkieMan

Ok I am going to try it since you feel so strongly about it.
If the existing inserts in my 2.3TLS are 1/4-20 then even better I work in a machine shop and can make some for free.

Toolfan66 wrote: »

The spikes do not leave a big hole in the carpet:rolleyes: get your learn on..

And the bass brace is not a substitution for spikes, spikes are a 1000 times better then that all thread in the wall. again get your learn on and try it. And i clean around my speakers just fine without moving them..


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

F1nut

No if about it, any SDA that came with screw in feet/spikes are 1/4-20 thread.

F1nut

Bugstyvy wrote: »

Yes they have threads, anyone know what size/thread they are? recommendation for spikes?

Ya know, I couldn't remember if the SDA SRS's came with screw in feet or not, I should have asked you about that early on. So, why were you talking about not wanting to drill holes and ruin the speakers???

motorstereo

Having read and re-read this thread I'm really thinking adding spikes to my 1.2 might be a good idea. Flooring damage be damned; if it helps I want to do it and I'll deal with the damage if I do any. But I really haven't been able to find exactly what area spiking actually helps the sda's. Maybe someone that has before and after experience can chime in. Does it help with midrange as opposed to just the bass? Reason I ask is because I have a dual sub set up and one is an 18" that goes down to 13hz. So I'm certainly not looking for any extra bass. But if spiking helps increase the clarity of the mids and possibly expand the sda soundstage I'm going to spike and look at the possible flooring damage as a necessary battle scar.

I've found it's the little things now that make a huge difference. Such as a recently resolved grounding issue that I had for years that I posted a thread about. No one here had an answer why it made a difference. But that one stupid little issue resolved made a very noticable difference for the better that I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't heard it firsthand.

I have a rock solid floor and the bass braces are very securely coupled to studs in an equally rock solid wall. A good hard shove on my sda's will not make them move the slightest bit so they are about as secure as I can make them without the spikes right now. So let's hear from the spikers; what area can I expect improvements in if I do spike?

Dawgfish

In my expereince with my SDA SRS 2s the difference between before spiked and after was pretty profound. With the spikes the bass became tighter, and less boomy. Where the spikes really helped the most was in imaging. The imaging became much more precise. Overally clarity and detail also increased. IMHO spiking is a very worthwhile upgrade and is pretty easy to do. I think it took me 5 minutes per speaker. It took a lot more time to reposition and realign the speakers than it did to put the spikes on. It's well worth the effort.

Also if you are worried about damaging your wood floors just use the speaker discs or cups that are designed to help with this very issue. My spike kit came with the discs.

chandler9a

MOTO, I was going to respond to your question but what dawgfish said pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Imagining improved for sure on both sets that I spiked, one of them being my fathers 1.2TLs.

I would try it out and see what you think, can't hurt.

jeremymarcinko

So what did we learn today? If you spike your sda's you'll end up in a piss'n match. Good Stuff

motorstereo

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

So what did we learn today? If you spike your sda's you'll end up in a piss'n match. Good Stuff

Maybe that's your take on it but it isn't mine. I got the answer to my question concerning improvements besides the bass. I do believe I've got to hunt for some spikes.

Chandler; was your father's 1.2tl's connected up to a bass brace before you spiked them?

chandler9a

motorstereo wrote: »

Maybe that's your take on it but it isn't mine. I got the answer to my question concerning improvements besides the bass. I do believe I've got to hunt for some spikes.

Chandler; was your father's 1.2tl's connected up to a bass brace before you spiked them?

No bass brace for his 1.2TL's. I got him some mysound spikes and pads since he has a hardwood floor. I don't believe mysound makes the size you need any longer but someone will chime in on where you can get some good ones for those monsters.