Rti A7 mid/hi very weak (not worthy of the price I paid for these floorstanders)

27dnast

Hmmm... I have to chime in on this. First off, I'd have to agree with just about everyone that's responded in saying the MP3's/iPad is a big part of the problem. I think this is pretty obvious and spot on. Although, my ears tell me that music off my iPod (when I play it in my car for example) sounds thin in the highs and lows and kind of muddy in the mids. That could just be me, though.

What I find curious in all of this is that you said you were driving your A7's with an Elite SC52 and you were really unhappy with the sound. I'm assuming you probably ran MCACC on your 52? MCACC can be difficult to use and if not run properly can really take the mids right out of your sound. I've had it happen to me... before I corrected the issue... and remember reading some complaints in various reviews of Elite units (this was several years ago when I was buying mine) that a set-up sounded awful after running MCACC. I'm wondering if you didn't run it properly and ended-up with an awful calibration. Seriously, I don't think that AVR should have had a problem making those A7's sing quite nicely.

DarkHorror

Did you ever get an SPL meter and test to see what it is you are hearing? If it's just a certain freq that you would like louder just get an EQ or try a receiver with good room correction and EQ.

mralexny

DarkHorror wrote: »

Did you ever get an SPL meter and test to see what it is you are hearing? If it's just a certain freq that you would like louder just get an EQ or try a receiver with good room correction and EQ.

"freq that you would like louder"

Maybe thats it. Im going to install a couple of sound enhancing apps on the ipad to try to correct for whats missing. FYI it doesent sound bad per say it just needs a little more (on certain tracks)for my taste. I have'nt used the eq settings on the ipad because they are extreame; inserting radical changes to the sound; improving one thing while messing up another. I need to be able as you said; to control the eqaulizaton to suit my hearing and expectations for the material I am listening to. I guess its not plug an play...LOL I'll hold of on the physical eq and give the software a try.

Thanks

mralexny

27dnast wrote: »

Hmmm... I have to chime in on this. First off, I'd have to agree with just about everyone that's responded in saying the MP3's/iPad is a big part of the problem. I think this is pretty obvious and spot on. Although, my ears tell me that music off my iPod (when I play it in my car for example) sounds thin in the highs and lows and kind of muddy in the mids. That could just be me, though.

What I find curious in all of this is that you said you were driving your A7's with an Elite SC52 and you were really unhappy with the sound. I'm assuming you probably ran MCACC on your 52? MCACC can be difficult to use and if not run properly can really take the mids right out of your sound. I've had it happen to me... before I corrected the issue... and remember reading some complaints in various reviews of Elite units (this was several years ago when I was buying mine) that a set-up sounded awful after running MCACC. I'm wondering if you didn't run it properly and ended-up with an awful calibration. Seriously, I don't think that AVR should have had a problem making those A7's sing quite nicely.

Trust me I ran the MCACC several, researched the hell out of it and how to use it but aside from that I need earth quaking power when I listen to music and the Elite 52 wasnt going to cut it no matter if it sounded great.

mralexny

DarkHorror wrote: »

Did you ever get an SPL meter and test to see what it is you are hearing? If it's just a certain freq that you would like louder just get an EQ or try a receiver with good room correction and EQ.

No on the SPL meter
Moved the speakers all over the room
I'm going to give a couple of ipad apps that can contour the sound maybe better for and fill in the gaps

mralexny

SolidSqual wrote: »

It's not extreme at all. It's just the truth. If you are dead set on convenience when it comes to your library, then get subscription to Mog.com. I have one and its decent quality 320kps streaming. That won't solve your amplification problem. Remember, pro amps are designed to operate in a different environment than consumer grade. Thus, the electronics are designed to account for the stage of a public event. This represents different sonic signatures to account for the typical sound of a pro speaker in a bar, concert or recital, etc. situation. This may account for your midrange suckout IMHO.

As far as room correction goes and DSPing goes, I am probably the biggest advocate on this forum. That being said, you should get your system right before you any changes to the signal. You are just throwing good money after bad.

That site looks interesting; I'll check it out.
Im not ready to give up on my amps but I'm willing to start at the beginning and look at my source(ipad3)
I have a few ideas that i'm going to try that will hopefull keep my money in my pockets.
You know when I started this mission I think in january; I didn't think it would be so challenging.
Its fun but can be daunting at times.
Thanks for the input

jetstreamsurfer

Wow! I just bought a pair of RTi A7's! I hope I won't regret it after reading these posts!!!....I will be hooking them up to a Denon AVR-3311ci, a Oppo BDP 103, a Denon DNP 710AE, and a pair of Polk Audio PSW110's...they will be replacing a pair of vintage Technics floor speakers I've had for years! What do you think??

B Run

jetstreamsurfer wrote: »

Wow! I just bought a pair of RTi A7's! I hope I won't regret it after reading these posts!!!....I will be hooking them up to a Denon AVR-3311ci, a Oppo BDP 103, a Denon DNP 710AE, and a pair of Polk Audio PSW110's...they will be replacing a pair of vintage Technics floor speakers I've had for years! What do you think??

Trust me, you'll be good to go. Don't forget it takes at least 100 hours to break em in, but they'll sound just fine.

roost28

i agree that your source must be the problem, i am running the a7's off of my yamaha rx-a3010 and they sound great. cd's sound really good and so does my ipod, but i will say cd's do sound better than the ipod.

roost28

jetstreamsurfer wrote: »

Wow! I just bought a pair of RTi A7's! I hope I won't regret it after reading these posts!!!....I will be hooking them up to a Denon AVR-3311ci, a Oppo BDP 103, a Denon DNP 710AE, and a pair of Polk Audio PSW110's...they will be replacing a pair of vintage Technics floor speakers I've had for years! What do you think??

you will be really happy with the a7's

cstmar01

ravaneli wrote: »

As far as computers not being a good source, - that is the real garbage. I spent a lot of money on expensive sound card that made no difference in sound quality. Only later I found some tests of the frequency response and dynamic range of on board sound cards and it was pretty convincing that any 100 dollar motherboard has a near perfect sound delivery. Yes, not as good as the expensive sources but the differences are statistical and inaudible. To normal people. I know H9 can hear things that we mortals can't. The average Tube Amp for example distorts the sound a lot more than the average PC sound card.

NO.

You can't be serious? all the other garbage in your computer??? using Itunes? ever hear of bitperfect? There are several issues when using a computer and yes average people can hear it. shut up.

Agree that music off a computer can sound good if you do it right. Also what you are playing, an MP3 or lossless audio makes a huge difference. My friends don't even understand why when I play music in that format it can sound better, or soundtracks, etc...they are just amazed at the difference between compressed stuff and lossless.

I also agree do not put car audio into home audio stuff. there can be other problems in the chain compared to just the tweeters....

ravaneli

what's the inherent advantage of a CD vs an Ipad? I fail to see that. It really depends on the quality of the track itself. You can play on the iPad recordings with higher resolution than those of average CD, if you have such recordings on the iPad.
I listen to Pandora from my iphone through Marantz avr through professional amp QSC to my A7s and the quality is near perfect. Yes, the mids are definitely thinner than my Klipsch towers, but that is an inherent design problem of the A7s and it's really not that bad.

I keep calling for getting together and going through a few houses and making comparisons. I want to see who has A7s that sound better than mine, powered with a QSC amp and iphone for source. Any takers?

SolidSqual

ravaneli wrote: »

As far as computers not being a good source, - that is the real garbage. I spent a lot of money on expensive sound card that made no difference in sound quality. Only later I found some tests of the frequency response and dynamic range of on board sound cards and it was pretty convincing that any 100 dollar motherboard has a near perfect sound delivery. Yes, not as good as the expensive sources but the differences are statistical and inaudible. To normal people. I know H9 can hear things that we mortals can't. The average Tube Amp for example distorts the sound a lot more than the average PC sound card.

This has to be the most ignorant statement recently said on this forum. It also proves you either have a serious hearing disability or you've never heard a well executed stereo system. Either way you should probably keep your ignorance to yourself until you've developed some real experience. All the same, I could put together a revealing system for $500. This is not an issue of money or golden ears. It's an issue of a lack of experience, technical knowledge and common sense.

SolidSqual

ravaneli wrote: »

what's the inherent advantage of a CD vs an Ipad? I fail to see that. It really depends on the quality of the track itself. You can play on the iPad recordings with higher resolution than those of average CD, if you have such recordings on the iPad.
I listen to Pandora from my iphone through Marantz avr through professional amp QSC to my A7s and the quality is near perfect. Yes, the mids are definitely thinner than my Klipsch towers, but that is an inherent design problem of the A7s and it's really not that bad.

I keep calling for getting together and going through a few houses and making comparisons. I want to see who has A7s that sound better than mine, powered with a QSC amp and iphone for source. Any takers?

Google: Jitter, RF Interference, Asynchronous, Read Errors, USB vs. Firewire vs. Toslink vs. Coaxial, 24/96 vs 24/192 vs/ 16/48. Educate yourself.

As far as QSC amps and iPhone with the A7s. Aside from track resolution, room interaction and treatments, how is this a test? Wouldn't you want to hear your A7s with some better gear to show you how good the A7s sound?

You are approaching this from the wrong perspective. You think you are getting great sound, which is great. But don't think that's the best you can get. You'd be selling yourself short. Pursue better. It can be had for less than you think.

gp4jesus

Mralexny

Have you tried speakers other than your 'A7s & Bose 301s? BTW I hope you're not using the 301s as your benchmark. While I haven't taken the time to learn their configuration, if your Bose speakers are your "standard," you're not comparing "apples to apples."

I see you've tried a lot things. Have you tried a CD, one from the late '80s, in your DVD player; analogue &/or digital into your NAD electronics?

I kinda doubt the CV amps are the problem because you said the NAD 2200 sounded the same.

Hmmm... You seem to be the alone holding that opinion of the 'A7 response curve. Rav, TommyT, Jbooker82, myself and other 'A7 owners, whos screen names I can't recall, find just the opposite. Perhaps your room's acoustics, your playback chain, along w/the brightness together w/the mid-to-upper-mid peak so severely overpowers the lower midrange-upper bass, that you can't hear the latter.

Tommy suggested you contact Trey. I'm confident Jbooker would agree. Trey has helped them both.

Good luck don't give up, and, please, no car stereo speakers! Tony

Loud & Clear

MP3s can sound great when played through good speakers. It's all about the original recording.

I've never heard a polk reference theater speaker that I thought of as musical. Great for home theater, but not my preference for music. If you're looking for great mids and a forgiving tweeter, you can fuss on about with sources and amps all you want and never get very far, imo. You don't need top of the line sources, dacs, amps, or preamps, to get a good sound through a good sounding speaker. When someone flat out hates the sound they're getting, and unless something's literally broken, I'd suggest finding a pair of speakers that you like better.

naturallight

ravaneli..anytime you want to come down to GA..be my guest. I don't have Rti 7's i have RTi12's....but I also have a QSC amp sitting here doing nothing. You can bring down your Ipad, or whatever, put it up against my Jolida tube cd player..any time. I've tried the QSC amp..it makes the 12's so bright as to make your ears bleed....but rock on.

naturallight

ravaneli....I really think, you have some high end hearing lose...either that or you have just never heard a good power amp. RTi speakers of any kind, really don't like "pro" amps It pushes them into the ear bleed treble . Now i don't have RTi 7's i have RTi 12's...they don't like the QSC amp..and this amp is pretty new, bought for a music project that did not work out..so i'm stuck with it. It's a GX5 amp..pretty much a dam good amp for what it is. But the RTi 12 don't like them.



I have an Onkyo M-504 power amp...the 12's like this amp fine..sound great. The QSC...makes them far too much on the treble side and you can only deal with it for a short time. even with the Tube CD thats feeding them.

Now unless your deaf...pretty much anybody could hear the difference between the 2 amps..so to say your 7's work great and there is no difference between your QSC and a good HI-FI amp...dude..your pretty much pissing in the wind...........

jetstreamsurfer

Yay! Just got my RTiA7's! Going to set them up tomorrow and will give my 2cents worth about them tomorrow! Looking forward to hearing them!

tonyb

ravaneli wrote: »

what's the inherent advantage of a CD vs an Ipad? I fail to see that. It really depends on the quality of the track itself. You can play on the iPad recordings with higher resolution than those of average CD, if you have such recordings on the iPad.

The quality of the track alone will not dictate what comes out the other end. There's more to SQ than bits and 1's and 0's. I know i've said it before, but get your feet wet with some different gear, cables, lossless files, Dacs, etc. The journey is pretty eye opening and fun too plus ya might learn a thing or two along the way. It's not all the speakers fault the sound your getting isn't up to snuff.

SolidSqual

tonyb wrote: »

The quality of the track alone will not dictate what comes out the other end. There's more to SQ than bits and 1's and 0's. I know i've said it before, but get your feet wet with some different gear, cables, lossless files, Dacs, etc. The journey is pretty eye opening and fun too plus ya might learn a thing or two along the way. It's not all the speakers fault the sound your getting isn't up to snuff.

Some people say room acoustics is the greatest contributing factor in achieving good sound. This completely discounts the stupidity of the end user.

naturallight

What???? Tony are you saying you can "Fix" badly EQ'd music..with cables, lossless files, dacs or whatever????

You CAN'T fix badly EQ'd songs...you can try and make them passable..but you can't FIX them.

You need the the master tape's or files, you need a 32 channel board..plus a ton of equipment ..you can't FIX bad music...only make it passable..at the most..thats it.

tonyb

Very true Mike and couldn't agree more. Any given system has it's limits, and with that said and the room already optimized, it all begins at the source. Unless your willing to step outside your own comfort zone and experiment,try new things, you never discover anything/learn anything. How boring is that ? I know guys who have worked in a factory for 20 years putting the same screw in the same hole day in and day out. If that factory closed, they know nothing other than that one screw and one hole. Never furthering their knowlege, discovering how to do other jobs, limits their future. Same with audio, branch out and learn, discover new things, or accept what you have and be happy never wanting more.

Granted, we don't expect everyone to be as nuts about audio as we are around here, and thats all well and good, but if you want to further your journey we have members on all levels with advice to help even the most novice. And....you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get good sound either.

gp4jesus

jetstreamsurfer wrote: »

Yay! Just got my RTiA7's! Going to set them up tomorrow and will give my 2cents worth about them tomorrow! Looking forward to hearing them!

JSS: remember 100+ hours break-in. Untill then you may find them overly bright & possibly bit edgy.

They'll begin to soften and the bass will "come out to play some" after 50 hours. Once you pass 200-300 hours the woofers & subs should be fully broken-in & the tweets won't soften much more.

Cheers, tony

Thorton

gp4jesus wrote: »

JSS: remember 100+ hours break-in. Untill then you may find them overly bright & possibly bit edgy.

They'll begin to soften and the bass will "come out to play some" after 50 hours. Once you pass 200-300 hours the woofers & subs should be fully broken-in & the tweets won't soften much more.

Cheers, tony

Tony is spot-on on the break-in period. As far as the op's problem, I have to agree and would start with the Ipad, MP3's and amp. I'm streaming MP3's. 320 bitrate is a must to match or come close to CD quality for different recordings. I started with an old Denon 3805 driving the A7's and moved to a Parasound amp, the last thing I would characterize the mid's and highs as weak. The A7's sound great. Don't give up, you should be able to find a solution with the help from the experts that have posted before me.

jaf09

classic carl wrote: »

I agree that the issue here is probably the Mp3 files played though an Ipad. The Ipad needs an external DAC and the music files need to be lossless, as was mentioned earlier.

Excuse my question but what is this and how it helps, i always hear those words dac and lossless around here, thanks for any help!!!

mralexny

I decided to look at the source as alot of you suggested; But I also decided to remove the foam plugs (sounds much better)since I recently repositioned the A7's in a different part of the room. My research into improving the source lead me to the Pure i-20. It's a device that extracts to pure digital signal from the mp3(being played) thru the idock connector of my ipad and using its DAC converts it to 192khz. I already ordered it as well as an extension cable for the idock port since the mount is small and I wouldnt want my ipad to fall off the stand. I can still utilize the stand currently in use and leave the Pure i-20 off to the side. Check it out let my know what you think. I wont be receiving it till saturday so I'll update you all later.

tonyb

Slick little device but there are a million of these things in different versions. You may experience some improved sound quality but you still need to get off the mp3 bandwaggon and onto a lossless format to realize cd quality gains.

mralexny

tonyb wrote: »

Slick little device but there are a million of these things in different versions. You may experience some improved sound quality but you still need to get off the mp3 bandwaggon and onto a lossless format to realize cd quality gains.

What do you mean different versions?

SugarmillMan

I have almost given up on the iPad/iphone sound from my home theater. It just lacks too much. The car is fine but that's about it for me.