Rti A7 mid/hi very weak (not worthy of the price I paid for these floorstanders)

mralexny

I've had these speakers for some time now and still find the mids to be weak(almost like if someone was standing in front of speaker). The voice; at low volume its terriible). I decide to try a little experiment so I ordered a set of mm651. (like I have in my car) These coaxals sound amazing. Since they are the same size as the mid drivers in my floorstanders; I'm going to swap them out and use the crossovers included and see if it makes my rtia7's sing. (floorstander tweeters will also be disconnected) I know they are only 2.7 ohms but my cerwin vega cv-1800 can go down to 2 ohms so I dont think it will be a problem as long as I dont crank them up to much. You should know that I have already tried plugging the ports and biamping with similar amps. Its just missing something. I thought of getting a dbx crossover to attempt to cut some of the lows going to the mid/hi section but I cant help but think the the mid driver could be the problem; not to mention that I also find the tweeter to be just as weak. I should get the speakers this friday so I'll let you all know what my final results are.

P.S If you have any advice; I'm all ears....

ravaneli

what do u mean by terrible? There is no way, no how you are going to find a car speaker sound better than A7. Not inside the car anyway. I myself am critical of the A7s mids but I just feel they sound a little thin due to the overexagerated highs. But the definition of the entire A7 speaker is pretty damn good. Check if all your drivers are working!! My mid driver went out after 6 months and had to be replaced (thank you polk)
If I could redesign the A7 tower I would use a much higher crossover between the woofers and the mid driver - say at 500 hrs instead of 125. And tame the tweeter just a little bit. That will add some beef to the low mids and flatten the line between high and high mids.

ravaneli

actually can anyone recommend electronic adjustable crossover at a good price? I want to get one just experiment. I want to engage these two 7" drivers more. They are sitting idle at the moment, as my bass duties are covered by my two huge subs which really reduces this whole tower to a space devouring bookshelf.

EndersShadow

ravaneli wrote: »

actually can anyone recommend electronic adjustable crossover at a good price? I want to get one just experiment. I want to engage these two 7" drivers more. They are sitting idle at the moment, as my bass duties are covered by my two huge subs which really reduces this whole tower to a space devouring bookshelf.

minidsp is what you want. they have a bunch of pre-built box options (2 in 4 out, 2 in 6 out, ect). You connect to your computer to install and correct the curves and whatnot.

tonyb

From your sound description, you have something going on other than crossover tweeks to correct. First thing I would do is take a look at your cable connections. If your using bare wire make sure none of the plastic coating is caught inside a binding post. That can throw a blanket over the sound. Another is to take your Nad amp from the other system and use it on the 7's and see how they sound. Have you made any adjustments in the preamp ? Have you tried a different source ?

mralexny

tonyb wrote: »

From your sound description, you have something going on other than crossover tweeks to correct. First thing I would do is take a look at your cable connections. If your using bare wire make sure none of the plastic coating is caught inside a binding post. That can throw a blanket over the sound. Another is to take your Nad amp from the other system and use it on the 7's and see how they sound. Have you made any adjustments in the preamp ? Have you tried a different source ?

A different source no. I only have 1 preamp and Im using it in a vertical setup with the 2 cv-1800's. The music is coming from an Ipad 3 connected to the preamps cd input. Using 14 guage with bananna plugs. All drivers appear to be working. I have isolated each to verify this. Are not the vega amps of good quality. They are AB amps.

tommyt21

MP3 from that IPad?? Also is the EQ turned on from the Ipad? When I played music from my Ipad Touch it always sounded like $h!t

F1nut

The music is coming from an Ipad 3

There's part of your problem.

Are not the vega amps of good quality.

There's another part.

ravaneli

tommyt21 wrote: »

MP3 from that IPad?? Also is the EQ turned on from the Ipad? When I played music from my Ipad Touch it always sounded like $h!t

hey, hey! I play pandora from my iphone and it sounds like heaven. I have the paid version, which is supposedly higher definition, but i couldn't hear any difference when I switched.

ravaneli

EndersShadow wrote: »

minidsp is what you want. they have a bunch of pre-built box options (2 in 4 out, 2 in 6 out, ect). You connect to your computer to install and correct the curves and whatnot.

link to any of those?

mralexny

ravaneli wrote: »

hey, hey! I play pandora from my iphone and it sounds like heaven. I have the paid version, which is supposedly higher definition, but i couldn't hear any difference when I switched.

I'm running everything flat. So whats wrong with the vega's; im curious to know. I thought beacause there output was AB that they we be more than satifactory.I play dance and latin music. oh and I tried running them off my nad 2200 and they sounded the same. Pluging them has made them less flabbly and boomy but as you said the mids are thin. Short of actively crossing them over without the passives is all I can think of but Ill need another amp to triamp them but Im not there yet.

tonyb

Do you have an old receiver around to hook up to the 7's ? Maybe the pre is in need of some refurbishing ? Mp3's....if thats what your using is going to sound like garbage with anything other than just background music. How about placement, are they off the rear wall/side walls with some breathing room ? Try any other cables ? Do the banana's on the ones your using have oxidation ?

For computer music, there's no way around it, you'll need a dac and lossless files to offer up good sound quality. Anything else is just spinnin' your wheels in the realm of mediocre sound. No speaker will compensate for that. Have you tried other speakers on your bedroom setup to see if you get the same type of sound ?

Just throwing out some suggestions because the 7's do not sound like you describe at all.

naturallight

Wait..let me see if I understand this. You have a set of RTi7's. Now you want to pull the mid range driver. Replace that with a what is a car coaxial speaker, use it's X-over, plus disconnect the tweeter in the RTi7's



Because your MP3's off your ipad sound like crap..is that about right???


My suggestion..before you destroy a set of speakers, would be to buy, or borrow, a CD player..any CD player at this point..buy a good CD..then see, if the mid's sound like they have a blanket over them, or somebody standing between you and the speakers.

cnh

RTi-A9s! One word. Simple. You're mids will be "fine"!

cnh

classic carl

I agree that the issue here is probably the Mp3 files played though an Ipad. The Ipad needs an external DAC and the music files need to be lossless, as was mentioned earlier.

tommyt21

mralexny wrote: »

I'm running everything flat. So whats wrong with the vega's; im curious to know. I thought beacause there output was AB that they we be more than satifactory.I play dance and latin music. oh and I tried running them off my nad 2200 and they sounded the same. Pluging them has made them less flabbly and boomy but as you said the mids are thin. Short of actively crossing them over without the passives is all I can think of but Ill need another amp to triamp them but Im not there yet.

Turn the EQ off its still going to sound like crap with Flat, any EQ setting on the "I$$$" other than there stock speakers or headphones will sound like nails on a chalkboard. Can you hookup a decent CD player?

mralexny

tonyb wrote: »

Do you have an old receiver around to hook up to the 7's ? Maybe the pre is in need of some refurbishing ? Mp3's....if thats what your using is going to sound like garbage with anything other than just background music. How about placement, are they off the rear wall/side walls with some breathing room ? Try any other cables ? Do the banana's on the ones your using have oxidation ?

For computer music, there's no way around it, you'll need a dac and lossless files to offer up good sound quality. Anything else is just spinnin' your wheels in the realm of mediocre sound. No speaker will compensate for that. Have you tried other speakers on your bedroom setup to see if you get the same type of sound ?

Just throwing out some suggestions because the 7's do not sound like you describe at all.

I had originally hooked them up to pioneer elite 52 that i recently sold because it was even worse sounding; an it was playing the mp3's from a usb drive connected to its usb port which I believe goes thru some kind of dac conversion before passing thru its amp section. I even tried the nad amp on it preout front channel. Trust me Ive tried alot of things. I even had a new cd player that plays normilized sound and it sounded the same. Ive had these speakers since february and just cant get them to sound the way I want. Its too late and there too big to send them back. To be clear there not totally bad just thin. Just want alittle more out of the mids. I could try the other nad 1155 I recently purchased. It sounds great in the living room on the old bose 301's.

SolidSqual

iPad, mp3s, Cerwin Vega pro amps, USB drive?

You need to get rid of all this stuff and start with the basics. Those speakers are the best thing you have and they are revealing all the garbage you are dumping on them upstream.

B Run

SolidSqual wrote: »

iPad, mp3s, Cerwin Vega pro amps, USB drive?

You need to get rid of all this stuff and start with the basics. Those speakers are the best thing you have and they are revealing all the garbage you are dumping on them upstream.

+1000, and PLEASE don't try to stick car audio components into your speakers. The speakers are not the problem I promise you.

naturallight

Yeah..pretty much what everybody else said. First off..sell your CV amps..buy a used Adcom 555 poweramp. You can get those for about$400 bucks in good condition. There is nothing wrong with your Nad 1155 pre amp.

At least buy a decent CD player..buy some good cd's. MP3 junk will make your speakers sound like crap..period.

The problem is NOT with your speakers..it's with what your trying to feed them with..nothing more....
Rti 7's don't work well with junk amps or junk sound....if thats what your feeding them....thats the sound you get!!

pitdogg2

SolidSqual wrote: »

iPad, mp3s, Cerwin Vega pro amps, USB drive?

You need to get rid of all this stuff and start with the basics. Those speakers are the best thing you have and they are revealing all the garbage you are dumping on them upstream.

Garbage in Garbage out plain and simple.

tommyt21

Talk to Trey about a Crossover upgrade before you do what your planning. Other wise you may be left with just pretty firewood.

bklynNupe

Now that I think about it, I can relate to what mralexny is saying.
My first Polk?s were Rtia5?s and a PSW 505 Sub using mp3?s through an Onkyo receiver.
Movies were great, but music from my Ipod sounded like absolute crap! If your source is sucks, everything connected to it is going to sound like crap! In fact the better the rig, the more the whole thing is going to sound like a big bowl of crap if your source is mp3. As others have said, start with a better source.

Drenis

I can't believe I used to own, love, praise and defend my Bose speakers... and then I read the original post. Wow.

Geoff4rfc

I did my research and the A9's are a good step better in the midrange area. I "hear" the A7's are no slouch though. As a few here have mentioned, source and power supply is most likely the culprit. Feed a decent power supply and a good source through your A7's and I'm thinking you're going to feel differently about them.

mystik610

mralexny wrote: »

I had originally hooked them up to pioneer elite 52 that i recently sold because it was even worse sounding; an it was playing the mp3's from a usb drive connected to its usb port which I believe goes thru some kind of dac conversion before passing thru its amp section. I even tried the nad amp on it preout front channel. Trust me Ive tried alot of things. I even had a new cd player that plays normilized sound and it sounded the same. Ive had these speakers since february and just cant get them to sound the way I want. Its too late and there too big to send them back. To be clear there not totally bad just thin. Just want alittle more out of the mids. I could try the other nad 1155 I recently purchased. It sounds great in the living room on the old bose 301's.

If you're finding that the mids are somewhat lacking on the A7's, then I agree with you. The A7's are my least favorite of the RTi-A series. The tweeter on the RTiA's is rather....dominating. The A5's and A9's seem to do a better job of balancing the mids and the highs.

When I had the RTi8's, I found that using warmer sounding components went a VERY long way in bringing out the mid-range, taming the highs, and creating a more robust sound-stage overall.

F1nut

I thought beacause there output was AB that they we be more than satifactory.I

Most solid state amps are Class AB. There's a lot more than that to high fidelity.

ravaneli

i think the OP has some problem with the speaker or another component, but it is about some kind of malfunction. If everything performs at stock levels, A7's and pandora from iphone or ipad sound pretty damn good. Yes, a bit bright on the second floor, but that's nitpicking. I don't think he would write like that if that was the problem. Also, to suggest that A7s plays worse than a car speakers is just not serious. I am very proud with the sound in my car, polk component speakers and amps, but it's in whole another league under.

As far as computers not being a good source, - that is the real garbage. I spent a lot of money on expensive sound card that made no difference in sound quality. Only later I found some tests of the frequency response and dynamic range of on board sound cards and it was pretty convincing that any 100 dollar motherboard has a near perfect sound delivery. Yes, not as good as the expensive sources but the differences are statistical and inaudible. To normal people. I know H9 can hear things that we mortals can't. The average Tube Amp for example distorts the sound a lot more than the average PC sound card.

mralexny

SolidSqual wrote: »

iPad, mp3s, Cerwin Vega pro amps, USB drive?

You need to get rid of all this stuff and start with the basics. Those speakers are the best thing you have and they are revealing all the garbage you are dumping on them upstream.

I think this is a bit extreame. I appreciate the advice from you and all the rest. I don't think I'll be getting into cd's again since all my music is in mp3 format. I guess I'll just have to deal with the thin mids. I've invested alot of time any money and swapping out components and starting over is just to exhausting. I may try eqing the ipad (I found an app called SoundBest Player that I can try). I may even try tweeking the signal with an active before the amps. As for the car speakers(Polk Audio MM651); I have 4 of them in my Juke (they sound awesome with just the head unit) so I'll just stick these in a closet incase I blow one(as a backup).
Keep the feedback coming if you guys have any other tidbits of info that can help with my present configuration. I'm not giving up (on my investments) but I will take 2 steps back and give it some time. I'm sure there is a simpler less extreame route I can take and impulse buying is not one of them.
Thanks again

heiney9

MP3's asbolutely stink if higher fidelity is your goal. You really have no room to complain if you are dead set on using MP3's. You can use FLAC and get the same convenience and better sound quality if you don't want "to do cd's" anymore.

If not, then just deal with the compromise in sound and be happy with the final result. Solidsqual is 100% on the money with his advice.

H9

SolidSqual

mralexny wrote: »

I think this is a bit extreame. I appreciate the advice from you and all the rest. I don't think I'll be getting into cd's again since all my music is in mp3 format. I guess I'll just have to deal with the thin mids. I've invested alot of time any money and swapping out components and starting over is just to exhausting. I may try eqing the ipad (I found an app called SoundBest Player that I can try). I may even try tweeking the signal with an active before the amps. As for the car speakers(Polk Audio MM651); I have 4 of them in my Juke (they sound awesome with just the head unit) so I'll just stick these in a closet incase I blow one(as a backup).
Keep the feedback coming if you guys have any other tidbits of info that can help with my present configuration. I'm not giving up (on my investments) but I will take 2 steps back and give it some time. I'm sure there is a simpler less extreame route I can take and impulse buying is not one of them.
Thanks again

It's not extreme at all. It's just the truth. If you are dead set on convenience when it comes to your library, then get subscription to Mog.com. I have one and its decent quality 320kps streaming. That won't solve your amplification problem. Remember, pro amps are designed to operate in a different environment than consumer grade. Thus, the electronics are designed to account for the stage of a public event. This represents different sonic signatures to account for the typical sound of a pro speaker in a bar, concert or recital, etc. situation. This may account for your midrange suckout IMHO.

As far as room correction goes and DSPing goes, I am probably the biggest advocate on this forum. That being said, you should get your system right before you any changes to the signal. You are just throwing good money after bad.