Lance Armstrong, you're still the greatest
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The BIG questions I want answered after he supposedly confirms that he's been doping...how did he pass all those drug tests and who no doubt covered it up. This is beyond Lance now. Gonna be alot of heads rolling after this comes out!No excuses!
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Strong Bad wrote: »The BIG questions I want answered after he supposedly confirms that he's been doping...how did he pass all those drug tests and who no doubt covered it up. This is beyond Lance now. Gonna be alot of heads rolling after this comes out!
How did he pass the drugs tests indeed? That is the BIG question. He hired the best doctors. These doctors measured his blood and determined what drug to take, how much to take, when to take it and if tested what to take to mask the drug. He also would not answer the door if the drug testers knocked at a bad time. I also don't think the testers wanted to find drugs in LA.
Read the book The Sercet Race if you want to know all the details. -
Strong Bad wrote: »The BIG questions I want answered after he supposedly confirms that he's been doping...how did he pass all those drug tests and who no doubt covered it up. This is beyond Lance now. Gonna be alot of heads rolling after this comes out!
The testing for these types of drugs is WAY behind the technology of the drugs. Often times, in the IOC especially, the bans come down from the masking agents that are used to hide detection of the actual drug. The "random" tests are typically only administered during certain times of the year, so the doctors/athletes cycle the drugs to be out of your system during the peak testing times. Its a gamble and roll of the dice, but its only a foul if they blow the whistle type mentality. And this happens in all sports. How these guys in the NFL and MLB can get caught IN SEASON is beyond me. They are the stupid ones who take the chance during active testing times that they will not be randomly selected. And in the NCAA the testing is a joke; they basically test just for teh sake of testing so they can say they are trying to discourage the use of PED's.Shawn
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The testing for these types of drugs is WAY behind the technology of the drugs. Often times, in the IOC especially, the bans come down from the masking agents that are used to hide detection of the actual drug. The "random" tests are typically only administered during certain times of the year, so the doctors/athletes cycle the drugs to be out of your system during the peak testing times. Its a gamble and roll of the dice, but its only a foul if they blow the whistle type mentality. And this happens in all sports. How these guys in the NFL and MLB can get caught IN SEASON is beyond me. They are the stupid ones who take the chance during active testing times that they will not be randomly selected. And in the NCAA the testing is a joke; they basically test just for teh sake of testing so they can say they are trying to discourage the use of PED's.
The riders knew when the testers were visiting them for testing because they were tipped off. -
The riders knew when the testers were visiting them for testing because they were tipped off.
Agreed, wasnt necessarily saying cyclists didn't know it was coming and more related to all sports testing. But, the fact that they were tipped off at certain times didn't give them enough time to "clean" their systems. That typically takes weeks or sometimes months with the types of drugs that they were/are taking. Masking agents are more easily detected than the drugs themselves most times. Certain masking agents are used for different drugs so often times if the concentration of masking agent for a specific drug is too high, they then state that the person tested positive for the drug the masking agent was created for.Shawn
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When they built the great wall of China, the invaders simply bribed the guys guarding the gates.
Most likely palms were greased."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
sucks2beme wrote: »Most likely palms were greased.
Not most likely...but most definitely.
LA has a net worth over $100 million. When you consider the aggregate net worth of other top cyclists, endorsment deals, associated products and associated industry, you get into billions of $$$. It is not difficult to imagine that some people would spend millions to get other people to "look the other way".Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Agreed, wasnt necessarily saying cyclists didn't know it was coming and more related to all sports testing. But, the fact that they were tipped off at certain times didn't give them enough time to "clean" their systems. That typically takes weeks or sometimes months with the types of drugs that they were/are taking. Masking agents are more easily detected than the drugs themselves most times. Certain masking agents are used for different drugs so often times if the concentration of masking agent for a specific drug is too high, they then state that the person tested positive for the drug the masking agent was created for.
They had many different procedures to pass the test depending on what drug they were using. They could dilute their blood to a passing level with transfusions of a saline solution in 24 hours.
They had docters administer drugs and test them to determine what was needd to pass the tests and how long it took. They never took drugs that would stay in their body for months and be detected.
Tyler Hamilton got caught because he left the LA team and hired a cheaper doctor to do the tests and blood doping. They mixed up the blood bags and he got some one elses blood and got caught. -
I thought LA was the best cyclist ever. It was great fun watching him win all those TDF races.
I love bike racing at the national level, but you just have to wonder about what drugs people are taking in any sport.
You think people, men and women, in the body building sport take drugs?
The testing procedure and the tests and the testers need a much higher standard.
I would like to suggest the blood samples to be tested 10 years after the event to make sure technology catches up with the cheaters. And make the cheaters pay a large fine and do jail time if they test positive 10 years later.
That would make all the fun in all sports go away maybe. -
How about let them go nuts. Take anything you want. But don't come crying
when it kills you."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
You think people, men and women, in the body building sport take drugs?
PEDs (anabolic steroids) are not against the rules (nor tested for) of bodybuilding competitions unless the competition is specifically branded as "Natural".
It's been long-accepted that even the top tier of natural bodybuilders can't even place near the top of any national or international "Open" BB competitions. This also applies, sadly, to most open competions even on the state level. -
sucks2beme wrote: »How about let them go nuts. Take anything you want. But don't come crying
when it kills you.
I would hate for all pro sports to become a 'roided-up freak show like bodybuilding or wrestling. I hope we never get to the point where young people believe that the only way to win athletic competitions is to use PED's. If young people come to believe that cheating is the only way to win athletic contests, they might come to believe that cheating is the only way to win in every other aspect of life.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »I would hate for all pro sports to become a 'roided-up freak show like bodybuilding or wrestling. I hope we never get to the point where young people believe that the only way to win athletic competitions is to use PED's. If young people come to believe that cheating is the only way to win athletic contests, they might come to believe that cheating is the only way to win in every other aspect of life.
Any football team with a front line of roided up players are going to win against a clean front line.
Same with baseball.
Look at Ted Willams, the splended splinter, and campare him to Barry Bonds. Who's taking roids? -
You really can't trust whether or not he told the truth when he talked to oprah, he may need to stir up some buzz. After all, F1Nut is rarely wrong.
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sucks2beme wrote: »How about let them go nuts. Take anything you want. But don't come crying
when it kills you.
That will never happen; it would require them to deregulate steroids and make it lawful to take / possess without a prescription for a valid medical condition.
However, i will say (with extensie experience in sports medicine that has included drug testing) that most steroids, specifically testosterone, is actually pretty safe to take. I AM NOT saying that i condonw the use of them, but therr is virtually no medical concrete evidence to suggest that the use of anabolic steroids causes cancer, etc. The media has tried to get us all to believes that Lyle Alzado, for example, died from brain cancer caused by steroid use. Simply not true. Virtually all (with the exception of some cardiac issues) of the effects are reversible im time once you stop taking them.Shawn
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Let me clarify my above post. My comments are suggesting that the steroids are not taken over extended periods of time and that they are "cycled" properly. If not, the effects on the body's sytems of regulation for hormone release, temperture regulation, etc are effected adversely and may become irreversible.Shawn
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DarqueKnight wrote: »I would hate for all pro sports to become a 'roided-up freak show like bodybuilding or wrestling. I hope we never get to the point where young people believe that the only way to win athletic competitions is to use PED's. If young people come to believe that cheating is the only way to win athletic contests, they might come to believe that cheating is the only way to win in every other aspect of life.
Most College athletic programs have lots of rules being broken at all levels.
Recruiting, grades, student "pay to play". You'd be hard pressed to find
a successful college sports program that is clean.
In the real world, a look at Wall Street pretty much looks the same.
There are a lot of people running an honest business. But at the top levels,
all is far in love and war. Life isn't fair. Teach your kids that, and they'll
be better prepared for the way things are. Work hard, play fair, but keep an
eye open for anything that looks too good to be true. 7 wins in a row
for the championship? You didn't have to think very hard about that one.
Investment guys offering low risk 15% returns? Ditto."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
sucks2beme wrote: »Most College athletic programs have lots of rules being broken at all levels. Recruiting, grades, student "pay to play". You'd be hard pressed to find a successful college sports program that is clean. In the real world, a look at Wall Street pretty much looks the same. There are a lot of people running an honest business. But at the top levels, all is far in love and war. Life isn't fair. Teach your kids that, and they'll be better prepared for the way things are. Work hard, play fair, but keep an eye open for anything that looks too good to be true. 7 wins in a row for the championship? You didn't have to think very hard about that one. Investment guys offering low risk 15% returns? Ditto.
I understand that money talks, hence my comment here:DarqueKnight wrote: »LA has a net worth over $100 million. When you consider the aggregate net worth of other top cyclists, endorsment deals, associated products and associated industry, you get into billions of $$$. It is not difficult to imagine that some people would spend millions to get other people to "look the other way".
My point was that life would be much more difficult if cheating was officially and authoritatively sanctioned. One way or another, you incur a penalty for doing wrong. Even if juicing were 100% legal, the athletes would pay horrible health penalties due to artificially pushing their bodies to increasing extremes. Teen athletes would try to emulate their idols' example with tragic results.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I don't have many idols. Certainly not many athletes.
How many still think OJ is the bomb?
I don't have an answer. Guys like Troy Aikman are few and far between.
Lance Armstrong won a bunch of races. If that makes him someone's
hero, then enjoy.
I don't think many young H.S. kids juice because these guys do. They do it
because the guys they are playing with or against are. That is the real
shame."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Not most likely...but most definitely.
LA has a net worth over $100 million. When you consider the aggregate net worth of other top cyclists, endorsment deals, associated products and associated industry, you get into billions of $$$. It is not difficult to imagine that some people would spend millions to get other people to "look the other way".
DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!
This is why I say...alot of heads are gonna roll!
I do firmly believe that Lance was/is a physically and genetically gifted athlete. He simply took all the same drugs that everyone else was taking, which put him on an even playing field. At that point, his genetics pushed him past everyone else. It's the same with say, bodybuilding. Tons of guys and gals are taking steroids, but there's that few select who's genetics allow them go past the rest and to the top.No excuses! -
I'll admit, after watching the first part of the interview, I'm surprised at how up front the guy was. I thought he was going to name alot of names and throw people under the bus, but there were plenty of chances for him to do that and he made it a point not to.
I do understand why he did it. He has alot of battles to fight now. He's hurt alot of people, including family, so he has that to deal with. I'm sure lawsuits are heading his way as well.No excuses! -
Strong Bad wrote: »DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!
This is why I say...alot of heads are gonna roll!
I do firmly believe that Lance was/is a physically and genetically gifted athlete. He simply took all the same drugs that everyone else was taking, which put him on an even playing field. At that point, his genetics pushed him past everyone else. It's the same with say, bodybuilding. Tons of guys and gals are taking steroids, but there's that few select who's genetics allow them go past the rest and to the top.
Good post!
I can't even imagine what the pressure to compete at that level must be like. Must be pretty easy to head down the slippery slope of drugging, when you are THAT close to being number one. Fame, glory, money, etc. I'd love to say I would be strong enough to say no, but I wouldn't bet on it. -
Strong Bad wrote: »I'll admit, after watching the first part of the interview, I'm surprised at how up front the guy was. I thought he was going to name alot of names and throw people under the bus, but there were plenty of chances for him to do that and he made it a point not to.I do understand why he did it. He has alot of battles to fight now. He's hurt alot of people, including family, so he has that to deal with. I'm sure lawsuits are heading his way as well.
Wait til they grill him in a courtroom, he'll sing like a canary.If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money. -
Entertaining interview.
He was fairly forthcoming, but still seemed pretty defensive...like he was trying to save face. I kept wanting to say...look...now is your one chance to be completely honest, humble and lay it all out. He kept splitting hairs on little, not important details. He was very calculated in all his responses, and I didn't believe everything he was saying.
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This TV interview is partly a way for him to say sorry to people he threw under the bus throughout the years, so there's no way he would use it to throw more people under the bus :razz: And I agree that sooner or later he'll be required to name names. Now they did mention in the interview that his ring might involve the mafia; whether that's true or not, some people can't be touched.Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
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I completely Disagree! He cheated! Plain and simple! We cannot assume everyone else cheated at the same time! He admitted to taking Ped's,and having his blood removed from his body,tainted with MORE drugs,and put back into his body! EACH YEAR HE WON THE TDF! Shame on him!!!!!! We as people cannot assume all other people that competed against him did the same thing!!!!!!! I am under no way,saying other people,in his sport,or others haven't done the same thing! However,we as honest human beings,HAVE to teach/show our younger generation,that this is NOT the way to prosperiety/getting to the top! If things keep going like this,we will have no proffesional sports/integrity,to watch in the next 20yrs/+!!!!!Good post!
I can't even imagine what the pressure to compete at that level must be like. Must be pretty easy to head down the slippery slope of drugging, when you are THAT close to being number one. Fame, glory, money, etc. I'd love to say I would be strong enough to say no, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I hope Lance goes bankrupt!! SOON!!!! This is NOT how someone in America should get rich,and live! High off the Hog!! He f-in cheated to get rich!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!"Everything I ever did in my life worthwhile I caught hell for" -
Want some good laughs? :rolleyes: Just go back to the start of this thread and read some of the posts. :redface:
Well, don't feel bad, guys. He's crapped on LOTS and LOTS of other people who meant a heck of a lot more to him than you do!
L.A. = P.O.S. :exclaim: :exclaim: -
bobsauto49 wrote: »I completely Disagree! He cheated! Plain and simple! We cannot assume everyone else cheated at the same time! He admitted to taking Ped's,and having his blood removed from his body,tainted with MORE drugs,and put back into his body! EACH YEAR HE WON THE TDF! Shame on him!!!!!! We as people cannot assume all other people that competed against him did the same thing!!!!!!! I am under no way,saying other people,in his sport,or others haven't done the same thing! However,we as honest human beings,HAVE to teach/show our younger generation,that this is NOT the way to prosperiety/getting to the top! If things keep going like this,we will have no proffesional sports/integrity,to watch in the next 20yrs/+!!!!!
I hope Lance goes bankrupt!! SOON!!!! This is NOT how someone in America should get rich,and live! High off the Hog!! He f-in cheated to get rich!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!
Great post -
bobsauto49 wrote: »I completely Disagree! He cheated! Plain and simple! We cannot assume everyone else cheated at the same time! He admitted to taking Ped's,and having his blood removed from his body,tainted with MORE drugs,and put back into his body! EACH YEAR HE WON THE TDF! Shame on him!!!!!! We as people cannot assume all other people that competed against him did the same thing!!!!!!! I am under no way,saying other people,in his sport,or others haven't done the same thing! However,we as honest human beings,HAVE to teach/show our younger generation,that this is NOT the way to prosperiety/getting to the top! If things keep going like this,we will have no proffesional sports/integrity,to watch in the next 20yrs/+!!!!!
I hope Lance goes bankrupt!! SOON!!!! This is NOT how someone in America should get rich,and live! High off the Hog!! He f-in cheated to get rich!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!
That's why I enjoyed the movie Limitless. I am not sure what I would do if someone offered me something to take and I would make 10 to 100 times + more money per year. Just visit some car dealerships. Some salesmen and finance folks will say or do almost anything to make more money (out of your pocket). Once you start doing it and having success, it makes it even harder to stop.7.3 HT: Sunfire TGR-3, Sunfire Series II, Mirage OMD-28, OMD-5 (x4), REL T1 (2), T2, Oppo 103D, Optoma HD8200PRO, 106" screen, SB Touch
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History shows us those willing to bend the rules make out.
There are three ways to make a big splash
1. Work harder at it than anybody else.
2. Apply new techniques or technology to what you are doing
3. Ruthlessly cut corners and step over people to get to your goals.
1 and 2 are pretty tough to do. As often as not, people apply 1,2,and 3.
Bill Gates did all the above. He bought DOS and screwed the guy who sold
it to him. He worked hard, and sometimes came out with new ideas. Just as often
he copied others work and added it to his product. The Apple guys stole tech and
people from Xerox to get their early products out the door.
Sports are the ultimate place to see this. Just win baby!"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
