Lance Armstrong, you're still the greatest

cnh

I was over at AK the other day and it is worth mentioning the "difference" in titles to L. Armstrong threads.

Here it is Lance Armstrong, you're still the greatest

There it is something like Lance Armstrong great American Liar. (of course, there is strong debate pro and con in that very thread so that the title may not fully reflect what most people actually think at AK).

I have no pony in this race. And really have no idea what the truth is. But I will say that Lance did inspire many to take up the sport and to fight cancer, etc. And you can't fault that either way!

cnh

Gadabout

tonyb wrote: »

LA doesn't have endless cash reserves to keep fighting with the cast of lawyers he'd need. The government does however. What they can't nail you with on evidence, they can destroy you financialy or until you say "I give". Somewhere in the mist of all this, someone had a bug up their arse about LA and set out to destroy the guy, his reputation, and his wallet. Comes down to making a decision on how much of your assets are you willing to throw out the window defending yourself. That answer becomes easier once your retired and have other interests.

You keep making this sound like he is fighting the US government. The USADA is only sanctioned by congress to meet the anti doping requirements set forth by the Olympics, Pan American Games and Para Olympics. The organization came to be in 2000 and received the official congressional okie dokie in 2002.

From the About Page of the USADA: ( http://www.usada.org/about )

As a non-profit, non-governmental agency, our programs:

I would agree with you that some one has a bug up there but about him and my guess that is USADA?s chief executive, Travis Tygart for whatever reason.

I also agree with Lance, but the the courts will decide, that the USADA can't strip him of his titles as they don't have jurisdiction over the titles. The International Cycling Union awarded the wins to him and they are the only ones that can take them away. The life time ban is another thing. It might be possible for them to impose a lifetime ban, but that would be from today forward not retroactive 13 years (even before they were an organization).

Besides the bug up his butt, the only other reason that I can think of for Tygart to pursue this so vehemently is some notion that this will set an example to other athletes about their powers.

Just my .02,
Scott

tonyb

The truth always comes out eventually. We'll just have to wait and see. If the guy is guilty, I'll be the first to call him out, but lets wait untill all the cow pies have dropped before making such conclusions.

DMara

This debate will end soon: http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2013-01-11/lance-armstrong-admission-doping-cyclist-oprah-winfrey-interview?eadid=EL/SICOM&sct=hp_t2_a2
:razz::razz::razz:

teekay0007

DMara wrote: »

This debate will end soon: http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2013-01-11/lance-armstrong-admission-doping-cyclist-oprah-winfrey-interview?eadid=EL/SICOM&sct=hp_t2_a2
:razz::razz::razz:

Oh, like Oprah is one to judge. I heard she got busted for drugs a while back too. :eek:


Story was, she had 50 pounds of crack stashed up her skirt!

AsSiMiLaTeD

DMara wrote: »

This debate will end soon: http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2013-01-11/lance-armstrong-admission-doping-cyclist-oprah-winfrey-interview?eadid=EL/SICOM&sct=hp_t2_a2
:razz::razz::razz:

the debate over guilt may be over, but not about the title of this thread and him being the greatest, as pretty much everyone else in the sport was doing it as well.

DMara

teekay0007 wrote: »

Oh, like Oprah is one to judge. I heard she got busted for drugs a while back too. :eek:


Story was, she had 50 pounds of crack stashed up her skirt!

The Oprah show is just a medium for him to come out clean, I don't know why you can say she's the judge. It's not like she put a subpoena out on him.

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

the debate over guilt may be over, but not about the title of this thread and him being the greatest, as pretty much everyone else in the sport was doing it as well.

The greatest at what? Cheating? The greatest of all cheaters? "Pretty much everyone else in the sport was doing it as well" doesn't mean every cyclers was doing it, and it definitely doesn't mean all generations of cyclers were doing it. Where would you put Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Greg LeMond, etc in comparison to Lance Armstrong after his admission of cheating? Or are you saying all of them cheated?

NJPOLKER

Somewhere during the Oprah interview Lance should just say, F Off but say it nicely. I think the majority of people would appreciate Lance saying what we are thinking.

decal

I can't, for the life of me, understand why folks get so worked up over celebrities.

tonyb

decal wrote: »

I can't, for the life of me, understand why folks get so worked up over celebrities.

On the face, I agree, but we do tend to praise achievement which in Lance's case is worth some.....given he didn't cheat of course.

Who knows what he'll say, if he admits to it I have a feeling it was part of a deal he made.

htrdln

i agree the lance thing was bs

dkr919

I wonder if he's going to talk about the about the fake moon landing and about all the astronauts doing LSD.

nooshinjohn

dkr919 wrote: »

I wonder if he's going to talk about the about the fake moon landing and about all the astronauts doing LSD.

The above quoted post is just plain stupid. I know guys that have flown the shuttles an met Gene Cernan a couple times at Purdue, along with a half dozen that built everything from Mercury to the STS... Even joking about their efforts being fake is offensive to their accomplishments and their memories...

Now if you want to bag on LANCE Armstrong, knock yourself out. I still look up to the guy for his achievements given the fact he should have died years ago from cancer, but I also do the same for my mother, who has beaten various cancers 5 times. Cancer destroys the body and spirit in ways you cannot fathom, so while his record is. Forever stained by doping, I won't judge the man for doing all he could to regain his life and his considerable athletics skills by doing whatever it took to fight back.

engtaz

Question is what Tour winner was not doing band drugs and how far back in history do you have to go??????

shawn474

The guy is a piece of crap; to continually grandstand, threaten and accept payments from medja outlets afrer he sued them for slander / libel while KNOWING he was wrong speaks to the arrogance and entitlement that this guy has. And dont get it twisted; the ONLY reason he decided to fess up isnt because of his foundation. Its because he wants to compete in marathons and triathalons governed by usada and needs reinstatement. He is hoping they reduce his lifetime ban if he now cooperates.
I will take nothing away from the livestrong foundation ; its an awesome charity with great people. Its just too bad armstrong couldnt swallow his pride YEARS ago instead of grandstanding.

badchad

engtaz wrote: »

Question is what Tour winner was not doing band drugs and how far back in history do you have to go??????

I bet we get some answers to this as well, when Lance tries to take everyone down with him.

exalted512

fossy

shoulda ran his **** over years ago....

AsSiMiLaTeD

DMara wrote: »

The Oprah show is just a medium for him to come out clean, I don't know why you can say she's the judge. It's not like she put a subpoena out on him.




The greatest at what? Cheating? The greatest of all cheaters? "Pretty much everyone else in the sport was doing it as well" doesn't mean every cyclers was doing it, and it definitely doesn't mean all generations of cyclers were doing it. Where would you put Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Greg LeMond, etc in comparison to Lance Armstrong after his admission of cheating? Or are you saying all of them cheated?

I don't follow the sport well enough to answer those questions about greatest of all time and who all cheated. I also never said I thought he was the greatest, I just said that this news does NOT end that debate.

I heard on both ESPN and the Dan Patrick show that you had to go down to number 23 in the last Tour ranking to find someone who had not been found guilty of cheating.

I don't condone cheating at all and don't watch those sports because of it.

But logically, if everybody is cheating and this guy won, then he's still the best.

I also happen to think the guy is a major creep and can't stand him now that we know he's guilty, and really because of all the denials and things he's done and said since he retired. If he'd just admitted it up front old honestly probably given him a pass since the sport is so dirty to begin with.

Roy Munson

Lance is a cheater.

He's also now a liar.

steveinaz

Well, even if you were inclined to believe he doped----so did all the other riders, so back to square 1, no?

EndersShadow

Its almost the same debate the was had over the newer swimming suits that made folks faster.... Michael Phelps beat me cause his suit was engineered better than mine, etc.

Despite cheating NOT being something I condone, if most people are in fact doing it and you still beat them either: A) your a better cheater or your simply better than them.

Its like steroids/performance enhancers in baseball, swimming, and most other sports, it was done, probably still is, and probably will be just in a manner that isnt technically illegal yet because they dont know how to make it so....

Its ok as in the future with how things are now with everyone getting medals regardless of how they actually performed this will all be a moot point...

mhardy6647

Roy Munson wrote: »

Lance is a cheater.

He's also now a liar.

No he's been a liar for quite some time; he's simply acknowledged it now.
(EDIT: and if one is familiar with the Epimenides Paradox, even that acknowledgement is kind of hard to evaluate for its truth value...)

coolsax

I think it's great what he did for cancer research and all the riders were doping so even what he did was win 7 while all the others were doping too.. it is what it is... the worst part, which proves its all about him, even when it comes to the fundraising is the way he ruined other's careers and lives because they knew too much and challenged him and he had the power to do so without even second's thought...is the ruination of some lives and careers ok considering what his foundation has done... some will say yes other's no.

Roy Munson

is the ruination of some lives and careers ok considering what his foundation has done... some will say yes other's no.

I think Lance has the ability to justify/rationalize anything as long as it's good for Lance.

sucks2beme

Whatever. He's an athlete. I tend not to hold them up as a hero.
Firefighters, Police, GI's on the other hand put their life on the line.
No big bucks, no endorsements. Just people doing their job no matter what.
I don't care if he was wearing women's panties while riding.

Roy Munson

Lance being Lance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Zad68VOxr8g#!

I particularly like how indignant Lance is with his denials. lol

bikezappa

I am sad that he is now admitting he used dope to win the TDF 7 times. I have been bike racing and coaching for over 25 years and LA is just about wrecking the sport of bike racing. Did he do it alone? No. All the other doctors, other bike racers and doping officals had much to add to this issue. Read The Sercet Race if you want to know some of the story.

Lance and his dcotors knew how to use drugs and pass all the tests. Makes you wonder who is not cheating with drugs in any sport.

shawn474

bikezappa wrote: »

I am sad that he is now admitting he used dope to win the TDF 7 times. I have been bike racing and coaching for over 25 years and LA is just about wrecking the sport of bike racing. Did he do it alone? No. All the other doctors, other bike racers and doping officals had much to add to this issue. Read The Sercet Race if you want to know some of the story.

Lance and his dcotors knew how to use drugs and pass all the tests. Makes you wonder who is not cheating with drugs in any sport.

Agreed; just as in baseball it isnt necessarily the cheating within the sport that gets me personally. Its the defiance that he used in defending himself ad ruining others who apparently knew all along. FOR YEARS!!!! How he can go to sleep at night for that long knowing that he ruined other people's lives and careers is beyond me. I guess at some point he started believing his own lies. There is a sense if arrogance and entitlement with him moreso than any other. In a time when we ask our kids to act with honesty, responsibility and accountability (because those are lost qualities) this is what they have to look up to. And as much as we as parents hooe and pray that our kids look up to us, they inevitably gravitate towards sports figures, celebrities, etc too.

Again, i am taking nothing away from his foundation because it is great. However, by the reports he didnt say much when he addressed them. If anyone deserved an explanation, it was his employees of his foundation. But the motive for him to do this is selfish and transparent in my eyes. It is jut to get his suspension reduced so he can compete in marathons amd triathalons again. It is a shame that someone who once was, could have and should have been the spokesperson for not letting cancer ruin your goals, his achievements are tainted and his character is lower than low. Whether or not he won the TDF's was irrelevant to most.

Face