What the hell were they thinking?

nooshinjohn

Just a very sad day.

The gales of November cannot come soon enough.

EndersShadow

Yup, lets see how long till you get told what medications are on the "approved list".

Its a good year for "Change"

muncybob

Time to change the REM lyrics to "it's the end of my country as I know it......"

rooftop59

Careful what you bring up on this forum John. Not all of us think it is a sad day. If you want to talk about it I suggest finding another forum or an actual human being :rolleyes:

nooshinjohn

rooftop59 wrote: »

Careful what you bring up on this forum John. Not all of us think it is a sad day. If you want to talk about it I suggest finding another forum or an actual human being :rolleyes:

Ummm, yeah, thanks for the warning. I'll start looking over my shoulder now. My mother has already been told that when her plans she has are rolled into the new one, that her care will be discontinued because they are considered experimental in nature and are too expensive. She has had cancer 5 times in her life and the one she has now was caused by the treatment that saved her life from the first two. What she has now is not curable, but manageable through routine intervention, but that treatment will stop under the new law, according to her doctors.

Yes... a sad day indeed.

codyc1ark

Yeah, agreed. My brothers five year old son who was born with severe athsma will now be covered, as it was a "pre existing condition". My nephew will also be allowed to be covered until age 26 when he should get his masters. I'm sure his mother could have afforded the coverage on her 20k a year salary as a brailest for a blind 6th grader. Heaven forbid this act helped only these two families, end of the world stuff.

Very, very sad day.

Joe08867

Can't wait until it goes through and I am not allowed my medication anymore. It was nice knowing everyone.

dkg999

I think it was a good day! Justice Roberts made one on the smoothest FU's to an out-of-control administration and congress that there has ever been. You need to look at the rulings in a broader sense. The unintended consequences of this ruling are huge. Even some of my far-left friends are complaining that SCOTUS made a fool of the administrations "it's not a tax" claim and gave the states room to get around key provisions. If your mobile, it will be time to pick your state of residence based on some new criteria.

gwg_97

It’s very interesting that the "majority" of Americans don't support "Obama care". However, if you ask that same majority what the provisions of the plan include, they have no idea.

As a small business owner, it will not prevent me from hiring new employees. Will it prevent any of you managers/business owners from hiring new employees? What makes me nervous is the typical 20 to 30 percent annual increase in insurance costs that has occurred over the past 10 years. Will the new program reign in these out of control costs? I don't know. What I do know is that something needs to be done and in my opinion trying something new is better than doing nothing at all. We are all Americans and we are fortunate that the we live in a democracy. If the program is a disaster, I guarantee you that it will be changed or eliminated very quickly.

We have nothinig to fear. Now go out there and stimulate the economy! Buy some expensive American tube amps!

Anyway here are some of the provisions for all you good folks. Enjoy and please don't beat me up too bad


Individual mandate: Requirement that most Americans obtain health insurance or pay a fine, starting in 2014.

Young adult coverage: Already in effect, dependent children can stay on parents' plan up to age 26.

Tanning tax: Already in effect, a 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services.

First phase of consumer protections: Already in effect, a prohibition on lifetime limits for insurance coverage. No denying coverage to children based on pre-existing conditions. Restrictions on annual coverage limits.

Medicare plan tax: An increase in the Medicare Part A tax rate by .9 percent, for those making over $200,000 ($250,000 for households), set to go into effect in 2013.

Health insurance exchanges: The creation of state exchanges across the country where consumers can shop around for insurance plans, set to take effect in 2014.

Second phase of consumer protections: Guaranteed coverage regardless of health, and a prohibition on annual coverage limits.

Employer coverage mandate: Requirement that businesses with more than 50 workers offer coverage or pay a fine, set to take effect in 2014.

Tax credits: Tax credits and subsidies available to individuals making up to 400 percent of federal poverty line, for insurance coverage - set to take effect in 2014.

Medicaid expansion: Massive expansion of Medicaid set to go into effect in 2014. Roughly 16 million Americans were expected to be covered under this expansion. The court, however, reined in this provision by prohibiting the federal government from penalizing states that don't comply by withholding existing Medicaid funds -- it's unclear how this affects the expansion.

Timothy Smith

A surprise, and strange turn of events.

Upheld by the Supreme Court when Roberts decided it was really a "tax" even though Obama, Pelosi, Reid insisted itwas not a "tax" before, during, and after it was passed.

Now I think it will be overturned legislatively instead, which is likely better that a Supreme Court Ruling.

Now Romney has an issue to run on - Overturning Obamacare legislatively. And virtually All polls show that the majority of voters are against Obamacare, and will put pressure on their representatives in the House and Senate to overturn, which will likely increase the number of Republicans in both the House and Senate after the Nov. election to do it.

The economy will now get worse instead of better right before the election which hurts Obama.

What could go wrong is that too many people just give up, put their economic future and medical care (or un-care) in the hands of the Government and hope they will be "taken care of" rather than taking responsibility. Becoming subjects rather than citizens. We have a lot of those already.

cnh

Having fun are we? Lots of interesting "spinning" above in many posts. I can't wait to watch FOX and MSNBC duke this out! Both will have their heads up their asses, of course. But, hey this is America! And if you can't haul off and spout the "ideology" of "your choice" why bother? It's only people's "lives" that are at stake, not whether you're a good private enterprise boy or a Big Government man!

You guys crack me up! G-97. sure, if it helps good, if it Fs things up, it will disappear.

I have my "favorite" comedy channels on tap for this evening, for me that's FOX and MSNBC. I'll be going out to get my popcorn and beer now and be back to laugh my **** off at "how absurd" people are going to get, later.

cnh

tommyt21

Better to be sick and free than healthy and controlled.

Timothy Smith

cnh wrote: »

Having fun are we? Lots of interesting "spinning" above in many posts. I can't wait to watch FOX and MSNBC duke this out! Both will have their heads up their asses, of course. But, hey this is America! And if you can't haul off and spout the "ideology" of "your choice" why bother? It's only people's "lives" that are at stake, not whether you're a good private enterprise boy or a Big Government man!

You guys crack me up! G-97. sure, if it helps good, if it Fs things up, it will disappear.

I have the comedy channels on tap for this evening, for me that's FOX and MSNBC. I'll be going out to get my popcorn and beer now and be back to laugh my **** off at "how absurd" people are going to get, later.

cnh

It's not spinning. It's called thinking.

Rather than just taking potshots and making fun of other people and their opinions and beliefs.

How do you think this will work out and why?

Try making your case.

cnh

Timothy Smith wrote: »

It's not spinning. It's called thinking.

Rather than just taking potshots and making fun of other people and their opinions and beliefs.

How do you think this will work out and why?

Try making your case.

OK, I'm not a fan of Obama care as it stands because it was a pretty weak plan to begin with. I still don't see how you can "call" this "thinking" when all I hear are the same sound bites from both sides, night after night after night. And then I often see them echoed here.

Sorry if I seem to be taking pot shots! But I have a horrible sense of humor. I'm surrounded by many Ph.D.s who are utter morons and keep me laughing non-stop and shaking my head. Thinking, been doing that my entire life and, you know what, NO ONE cares about that! They prefer the sound bites!

cnh

dkg999

cnh - I agree that the issue was that the ACA was not written well and really isn't a well thought-out plan. The fact that every US citizen doesn't have access to high-quality healthcare (and the same quality of care for all) is really something we have failed at as a nation. The ACA just doesn't get us there in a affordable and equitable manner. Frankly, I think Hillary had a better plan.

teekay0007

Nancy Pelosi :evil: - "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it!" :eek: Yes, ALL 2700 pages of it that NOBODY has read!

Ben Stein - "Fathom the Hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

cnh

I totally agree with you there Doug (dkg999). We have failed and it's shameful and we should take the "politics" out of this and start over, putting people, ALL people first.

Enough, for now. Have to get ready for...?

cnh

Timothy Smith

cnh wrote: »

OK, I'm not a fan of Obama care as it stands because it was a pretty weak plan to begin with. I still don't see how you can "call" this "thinking" when all I hear are the same sound bites from both sides, night after night after night. And then I often see them echoed here.

Sorry if I seem to be taking pot shots! But I have a horrible sense of humor. I'm surrounded by many Ph.D.s who are utter morons and keep me laughing non-stop and shaking my head. Thinking, been doing that my entire life and, you know what, NO ONE cares about that! They prefer the sound bites!

cnh

And I repeat: How do you think this will work out and why?

If as you say "If it F's things up we will just replace it", then why not just put me in charge of you health care, your investments etc. for a few years and let me make those decisions for you, because, you know..." If it F's things up we will just replace it".

disneyjoe7

"Have to get ready for....?


Hi my name is Bubba, Bend over.

cnh

Good one, Steve! Having a bad day are we TS? Outcome not what we wanted? Would you like a discourse on the entire U.S. health care system in 500 words or less! lol Don't you think this proves the point?

Honestly do you think that we can "really" debate such a subject seriously in short form on an audio forum? If so I must be wasting my time as an educator who spends hours and hours before classes and days, weeks, months writing articles!

cnh

rooftop59

cnh wrote: »

Good one, Steve! Having a bad day are we TS? Outcome not what we wanted? Would you like a discourse on the entire U.S. health care system in 500 words or less! lol Don't you think this proves the point?

Honestly do you think that we can "really" debate such a subject seriously in short form on an audio forum? If so I must be wasting my time as an educator who spends hours and hours before classes and days, weeks, months writing articles!

cnh

Exactly. And that is why this is not the proper venue of such a discussion.

Now back to solving the free will and moral responsibility problem and reading about the morality of monkeys :rolleyes:

Timothy Smith

cnh wrote: »

Good one, Steve! Having a bad day are we TS? Outcome not what we wanted? Would you like a discourse on the entire U.S. health care system in 500 words or less! lol Don't you think this proves the point?

Honestly do you think that we can "really" debate such a subject seriously in short form on an audio forum? If so I must be wasting my time as an educator who spends hours and hours before classes and days, weeks, months writing articles!

cnh

If you can't manage to say anything in 500 words, why would you think you could say anything in 50,000?

But go ahead, and use as many words as you think you need to.

cnh

Timothy Smith wrote: »

If you can't manage to say anything in 500 words, why would you think you could say anything in 50,000? Would you say this is insulting or not? Your call, my friend!

But go ahead, and use as many words as you think you need to.

I did not realize that I was here to write treatises for free for you! Look my friend. We disagree Politically! Accept that! And let it go! Because I'm NOT going to change anything you think or believe and we're only going to get this thread shut down. I'm trying to be as polite as I can.

cnh

codyc1ark

Timothy Smith wrote: »

If you can't manage to say anything in 500 words, why would you think you could say anything in 50,000?

But go ahead, and use as many words as you think you need to.

Whoa dude, calm it down. Sheesh!

nooshinjohn

rooftop59 wrote: »

Exactly. And that is why this is not the proper venue of such a discussion.

the clubhouse is exactly the place to discuss non-audio related topics of the day. This one just affects everyone.

steveinaz

Privatize with a (catestrophic coverage) voucher system, create competiton, lose the employment/insurance connection and cover pre-existing conditions. Support with a national sales tax. There's your healthcare; and before you begin whining about the sales tax, things have to be paid for, stop the pipe-dreaming, there are NO free rides, so get over it.

Leveraging competition in the "supplemental" insurance game is the answer, and is a win-win for everyone. You can hire and fire your provider at will, this will certainly gaurantee YOUR satisfaction, otherwise you'll move your plan to someone else.

It's NEVER a good day when government takes over the (mis)management of ANYTHING.

pitdogg2

gwg_97 wrote: »

Employer coverage mandate: Requirement that businesses with more than 50 workers offer coverage or pay a fine, set to take effect in 2014.

well lets put it this way. I work in the insurance industry and my employer has already stated that if this passed they would drop ALL OUR HEALTH INS. The Reason ?? It will be cheaper to pay the fines than pay their share of our health ins. We have heard this from many other business's. If you think about it the largest cost of business for most is their share of the health ins. they carry for their employees. So yes I am now worried!!! The other side of the coin......If everybody is forced to have health ins. well where is the incentive to lower premiums? I sorry but I smell the cost of health ins. going sky high....there will be no incentive to help keep the cost from going up and up and up.......

mrbiron

there are NO free rides

HA!.....I'm looking at all you unjustified welfare recipients!.....

Oops...wrong area for that argument. :twisted:

steveinaz

The government forcing citizens to buy a private product is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. I don't care what the idiots on the "supreme" court concede to.

I'm done with this topic.

rooftop59

nooshinjohn wrote: »

the clubhouse is exactly the place to discuss non-audio related topics of the day. This one just affects everyone.

"3) The discussion of politics and religion is irrelevant to good audio and is, therefore, not allowed on this forum."

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/announcement.php?f=33

If this does not constitute politics, then I don't know what does.

Face

It's great how many who weren't able to afford insurance will now have access to it, especially those with pre-existing conditions, I just wish the government went about it a little differently.

At least we're starting to distance ourselves from 3rd world countries.