Does Bi-Wring Speakers Really Make a Sonic Difference, if so Please Explain?

AVTONY2510

Does Bi-Wring Speakers Really Make a Sonic Difference, if so Please Explain?

I JUST REALLY NEED TO KNOW BEFORE I WASTE MY MONEY ON
EXPENSIVE BI-WIRE SPEAKER CABLES...

decal

Only you can answer that question. You really need to experiment and hear for yourself. If the cost is what's bothering you, I wouldn't worry about bi-wiring. I just had a new pair of Tyler Acoustic speakers built and opted for single wire connections. I can't really tell the difference but some folks can and swear by bi-wiring. Only you can make that decision, just like I said in your thread about new speakers.

mcnarus

Think of it this way: There's a signal coming out of your amp. At some point, that signal has to be split to go to each of you drivers. If you don't bi-wire, that split happens at your speaker terminals, thanks to the little metal plate connecting your upper and lower terminals. If you do bi-wire, that split happens at your amp terminals instead.

That's all that bi-wiring does--it changes where that split happens. Nothing else. In particular, it doesn't change the signal. It's the same signal reaching your crossovers either way.

Also, don't waste money on expensive single-wire cable, either.

Everything you need to know about speaker wire: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm. The author was director of acoustic research for McIntosh.

EndersShadow

^Oh Jesus here we go again......

decal

EndersShadow wrote: »

^Oh Jesus here we go again......

smiley_rotflmao.gif

codyc1ark

EndersShadow wrote: »

^Oh Jesus here we go again......

At least YOU didn't start THIS one! :cheesygrin:

thsmith

Come on guys, for all we know he has actually tried different cable and is speaking from experience:rolleyes:

heiney9

The Roger Russell article is a complete joke.

H9

Drenis

mcnarus wrote: »

blah blah blah

You really need to get with the times. I guess for everyone here who uses anything more than lamp cord BS in their system is a moron then who falls for the "gimmick"?

Educate yourself. Do YOU believe everything you read in the news? Ever read some of the magazines while paying for your groceries that have been raving Jesus to return on this day, or a baby was born with three heads and shows some weird messed up shopped picture? My point is anyone can write something and make people believe it with the words they choose. However, if you have no personal experience, I'm afraid the majority's opinion is greater than yours on this subject.

codyc1ark

heiney9 wrote: »

The Roger Russell article is a complete joke.

That website is a complete joke. My mutt yellow lab could have put together something more pleasing than that garbage.








Don't any of you call her a mutt, to you guys, shes a Princess.

txcoastal1

gonna be a long weekend

DollarDave

mcnarus wrote: »

Think of it this way: There's a signal coming out of your amp. At some point, that signal has to be split to go to each of you drivers. If you don't bi-wire, that split happens at your speaker terminals, thanks to the little metal plate connecting your upper and lower terminals. If you do bi-wire, that split happens at your amp terminals instead.

That's all that bi-wiring does--it changes where that split happens. Nothing else. In particular, it doesn't change the signal. It's the same signal reaching your crossovers either way.

Also, don't waste money on expensive single-wire cable, either.

Everything you need to know about speaker wire: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm. The author was director of acoustic research for McIntosh.

Take a minute and educate yourself by reading Richard Vandersteen's opinion on this - it is much more than just moving where the signal is split. I have Vandersteen 2C's now and have tried it both ways. There is a significant difference bi-wiring them.

Link to Vandersteen FAQ's - about half-way down, you'll find your answer - http://www.vandersteen.com/vandersteenfaqs.htm

leftwinger57

Rodger Russel is my Rabbi.Here we go again indeed.what use only lamp grade wire for minor speaker runs. Oh the nerve of some of you. Lamp zip is heavy enough to fit smaller runs w/ no problems at all. For me 14gu clear fit the bill and then went to Signal Cable Analog 1mt ICs.I just truely do not get that the guy worked as an inventer and engineer at McIntosh and people can't deal w/ what he preaches. I did buy into his rap the minute I read it and for financially challanged out there there are less exspensive ways to go w/o spending 1-2k on cables. Yes this forever be coming up as more people enter the audio arena and duke it out w/ golden ears vs. the rest of yes....

BlueFox

DaveMuell wrote: »

Link to Vandersteen FAQ's - about half-way down, you'll find your answer - http://www.vandersteen.com/vandersteenfaqs.htm

I like what he says regarding which wire is best.

"There is a best wire for your system. It is the wire with the sonic characteristics that work best with your electronics, your speakers. your listening room, and your personal listening tastes. Change any of the four determining factors, and the best wire may also change."

DollarDave

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Rodger Russel is my Rabbi.Here we go again indeed.what use only lamp grade wire for minor speaker runs. Oh the nerve of some of you. Lamp zip is heavy enough to fit smaller runs w/ no problems at all. For me 14gu clear fit the bill and then went to Signal Cable Analog 1mt ICs.I just truely do not get that the guy worked as an inventer and engineer at McIntosh and people can't deal w/ what he preaches. I did buy into his rap the minute I read it and for financially challanged out there there are less exspensive ways to go w/o spending 1-2k on cables. Yes this forever be coming up as more people enter the audio arena and duke it out w/ golden ears vs. the rest of yes....

I've read this about 6 times and still don't know what the heck you are trying to say? Do you agree with Rodger Russel, or not? Can you tell us about some personal experiences you've had with either comparing "good" cables with your lamp cords, or when you've compared bi-wiring to single runs?

decal

DaveMuell wrote: »

I've read this about 6 times and still don't know what the heck you are trying to say? Do you agree with Rodger Russel, or not? Can you tell us about some personal experiences you've had with either comparing "good" cables with your lamp cords, or when you've compared bi-wiring to single runs?

Don't try to understand LW57, I don't think he even understands himself.

Toolfan66

mcnarus wrote: »

Think of it this way: I don't know what the hell I'm talking about nor do I have any experience in using more expensive cables, but just read what Rodger (the new Jesus) Russell has to say, this is one of the lost books from the new testament. I really don't know how to think for my self or experience things for my self so everything you need to know is in the link I posted where I learned what little I know about nothing.

......:eek:

rebuy

Rick88 wrote: »

:eek:

Attachment not found.

It really did make me LOL.

tonyb

AVTONY2510 wrote: »

Does Bi-Wring Speakers Really Make a Sonic Difference, if so Please Explain?

I JUST REALLY NEED TO KNOW BEFORE I WASTE MY MONEY ON
EXPENSIVE BI-WIRE SPEAKER CABLES...

Only you can decide that, we all hear differently. As far as wasting money goes, well, if you never try anything, you'll never know. Sometimes that comes with wasting money.....sometimes.

mantis

Wire , the single biggest topic in this forum yet most of the posts don't offer any guidance.

I'm gonna throw out a few things.
1) Follow the AWG standards and you'll be very close to achieving said goal
2) Use quality cables everywhere in your system .
3) All factors matter when building a quality audio video system.
4) There is a point which wire makes no difference at all.
5) Educate yourself or get trained in this topic.
6) If you reply to a thread about wire , could you at least offer some quality guidance to those who are searching for answers for ones system. Not everyone knows as much as you and probably could benefit from your experience.

With that being said it really depends on a lot of factors if bi wiring is going to make a noticeable improvement on your system over maybe applying said funds somewhere else.

To answer your question YES bi wiring does make a difference on speakers that are designed to be bi wired. But understand that the quality of all things in your system needs to have balance and this is a key to building any system. Proper matching will yield greater results then one single thing alone.

I ask you what speakers do you own? What amp is driving said speakers? What is the wire you are about to buy but are shy due to the fact your not sure if it's worth it or not? What wire are you using now that you feel needs improving? What is your goal here?

AVTONY2510

Thanks my Fellow Texan for not making Fun at me like the others & instead tring to Educated me in this Issue I'm Having...

AVTONY2510

Mantis (Dan)

I'M USING POLK RTi A9 FRONTS, CSi A6 CENTER & FXi A4 REARS
& 2 VELODYNE POWERED SUBS. I'M USING A B&K AV6000 AMP. 125w x 6ch.
ONKYO TX-NR1008 RECEIVER W/PRE-OUTS AS PROCESSOR

I'M LOOKING TO PURCHASE CANARE 4S8 QUAD BI-WIRE W/GOLD PLATED LOCKING BANANAS 12FT. PAIR OF CABLES...

PS I THINK I'M UNDER POWERING THEM WITH THIS AMP. EVERYONE I SPEAK TO
SAYS TO GET AN AMP. AT LEAST 200 WPC. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON BRAND & MODEL?

DarkHorror

DaveMuell wrote: »

Take a minute and educate yourself by reading Richard Vandersteen's opinion on this - it is much more than just moving where the signal is split. I have Vandersteen 2C's now and have tried it both ways. There is a significant difference bi-wiring them.

Link to Vandersteen FAQ's - about half-way down, you'll find your answer - http://www.vandersteen.com/vandersteenfaqs.htm

LMAO, I sure hope that is a joke.

Geoff4rfc

AVTONY2510 wrote: »

Mantis (Dan)

I'M USING POLK RTi A9 FRONTS, CSi A6 CENTER & FXi A4 REARS
& 2 VELODYNE POWERED SUBS. I'M USING A B&K AV6000 AMP. 125w x 6ch.
ONKYO TX-NR1008 RECEIVER W/PRE-OUTS AS PROCESSOR

I'M LOOKING TO PURCHASE CANARE 4S8 QUAD BI-WIRE W/GOLD PLATED LOCKING BANANAS 12FT. PAIR OF CABLES...

PS I THINK I'M UNDER POWERING THEM WITH THIS AMP. EVERYONE I SPEAK TO
SAYS TO GET AN AMP. AT LEAST 200 WPC. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON BRAND & MODEL?

Nice set up!! I considered those cables and saved money and went with Monoprice 12/4 and made my own, two connectors at the amp, four at the speaker.

In my opinion, a heavy gage wire is more efficient than a flat piece of jumper material.

The Emotiva XPA-2 did a better job of smoothing out the high end on my speakers than the Emo XPA-3.

There are better and more expensive amps, but the Emos fit into my system to my liking, and as long as I'm doing the liking, that's all that matters.

tonyb

mantis wrote: »

Wire , the single biggest topic in this forum yet most of the posts don't offer any guidance.

I'm gonna throw out a few things.
1) Follow the AWG standards and you'll be very close to achieving said goal
2) Use quality cables everywhere in your system .
3) All factors matter when building a quality audio video system.
4) There is a point which wire makes no difference at all.5) Educate yourself or get trained in this topic.
6) If you reply to a thread about wire , could you at least offer some quality guidance to those who are searching for answers for ones system. Not everyone knows as much as you and probably could benefit from your experience.

With that being said it really depends on a lot of factors if bi wiring is going to make a noticeable improvement on your system over maybe applying said funds somewhere else.

What point would that be Dan, where wires would make no difference at all ?

Cables are a complicated subject with many variables that can and do insight beatdowns in every thread. Since we agree that many variables apply, it can get way too long and diluted so the usual standby answer applies, "let your ears be the judge". There's a certain road of self discovery every audiophile goes threw regardless of others advice. Sometimes it's best to let that process happen, especially when it comes to cables.

Geoff4rfc

tonyb wrote: »

What point would that be Dan, where wires would make no difference at all ?

Hey Tony, I'm thinking in Dans pt #4, he's referring to a point where a "specific" wire wouldn't make a diff, like in my first set up, which was in a bedroom with short runs, no amps, just a receiver and low budget speakers. If I'd have used 22awg or MIT cables, my end result would have most likely been the same.

But, I've been wrong before................

DollarDave

DarkHorror wrote: »

LMAO, I sure hope that is a joke.

You've made 63 posts in 7 years and 90% of those are in the other cable debate thread(s). Looks like you are just looking for an argument. Go away and take your strange sense of humor with you.

DarkHorror

DaveMuell wrote: »

You've made 63 posts in 7 years and 90% of those are in the other cable debate thread(s). Looks like you are just looking for an argument. Go away and take your strange sense of humor with you.

I am trying to correct bad information, but I don't want to go through something that is a joke as sarcasm can be missed in the internet.

F1nut

DaveMuell wrote: »

You've made 63 posts in 7 years and 90% of those are in the other cable debate thread(s). Looks like you are just looking for an argument. Go away and take your strange sense of humor with you.

I second that motion.

brunk

+1, only you can really tell, but doing a blind test with friends is even better.

decal wrote: »

Only you can answer that question. You really need to experiment and hear for yourself. If the cost is what's bothering you, I wouldn't worry about bi-wiring. I just had a new pair of Tyler Acoustic speakers built and opted for single wire connections. I can't really tell the difference but some folks can and swear by bi-wiring. Only you can make that decision, just like I said in your thread about new speakers.

DarqueKnight

AVTONY2510 wrote: »

Does Bi-Wring Speakers Really Make a Sonic Difference, if so Please Explain?

It depends on the speakers, electronics and your ears. This is something you will have to work out for yourself.

In my personal experience, I heard no difference when I bi-wired my SDA SRS's and SDA SRS 1.2TL's. I did hear differences when I tried bi-amping. That experiment is discussed here.

AVTONY2510 wrote: »

I JUST REALLY NEED TO KNOW BEFORE I WASTE MY MONEY ON EXPENSIVE BI-WIRE SPEAKER CABLES...

Education costs money but ignorance costs way more. I would not consider a positive learning experience a waste of money. If the bi-wire cables do not work out, can't you return them? You will be out of some shipping costs and some time, but at least you will know for yourself.

AVTONY2510 wrote: »

PS I THINK I'M UNDER POWERING THEM WITH THIS AMP. EVERYONE I SPEAK TO TO GET AN AMP. AT LEAST 200 WPC. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON BRAND & MODEL?

This is analogous to asking the following:

"I think my car is underpowered. Everyone I speak to says to get a higher powered car. At least 300 HP. Any suggestions on brand and model?"

Amps, like cars, are designed to meet certain performance standards at a specific price point. As with choosing a car, you first have to determine what your performance requirements are, then make a selection according to those requirements and your budget. Otherwise, you are just grasping at the wind.