For those who care about (cr)Apple

mutelight

ryanjoachim wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/07/new-ipad-vs-ipad-2/

New iPad was announced today.
They're doing more catching up and pretending that they're the first to do all these things.

My jaded hatred of Apple aside, if this was $200 cheaper I would actually buy it now.

Catching up? Do you actually know what you are talking about? The screen and LTE with that battery life alone puts the new iPad above any Android alternative.

ryanjoachim wrote: »

I'm an Apple hater because their products don't deserve the price they're sold at. That they're generally great products can't be argued, but still not worth a 200-300% increase in price over competitors.

Obviously the American people disagree with me, or Apple wouldn't be the behemoth it is today.

Again your lack of information is shown, their iPads and iPhones are competitively priced.

Sure there are cheaper Android (lower end) tablets but you need to compare similar specs.

The Asus TF Prime was the first to break $100 less than Apple with better hardware, which is why I was hoping it would do well. Your percentages are drastically overblown.

inspiredsports

ryanjoachim wrote: »

I'm an Apple hater because their products don't deserve the price they're sold at. That they're generally great products can't be argued, but still not worth a 200-300% increase in price over competitors.

Obviously the American people disagree with me, or Apple wouldn't be the behemoth it is today.

Corporate valuations aside, in a strange way, this almost sounds like Monster (and Bose).

ryanjoachim

http://www.androidcentral.com/nvidia-dares-question-apples-unquestioned-facts

For one example of how Apple doesn't need to be truthful in marketing.

Here's another:

http://www.wpcentral.com/lies-damn-lies-statistics-and-apple

I never said that Apple didn't have good products, in fact I'm pretty sure I've said the exact opposite before. Their battery life is the thing of dreams right now for everyone else.

ryanjoachim

mutelight wrote: »

Again your lack of information is shown, their iPads and iPhones are competitively priced.

Sure there are cheaper Android (lower end) tablets but you need to compare similar specs.

The Asus TF Prime was the first to break $100 less than Apple with better hardware, which is why I was hoping it would do well. Your percentages are drastically overblown.

Actually, YOUR lack of information is shown. Android tablets are forced into competing with Apple's prices, not because they're worth it (or not worth it), but because that is the only way to get consumers out of the "more expensive is better" anthem.

The iPad was the first really commercially viable tablet (as we see them now), and it's taken until now for Android (and others) to finally get the market share they need to lower the price point without looking like they're not worth the money to consumers.

Of course, neither of us has any clue how the prices are actually chosen for any of these products.

P.S. I based my percentages off of their desktop offerings, and not specifically their mobile ones. I should have clarified that point.

nspindel

For those of you who want a keyboard for an iphone:

http://www.brookstone.com/bluetooth-backlit-keyboard-case-iphone-4

My wife has it, works great.

BlueFox

The only Apple product I have is the iPod Classic. I have built a great stereo around using it as music server source, along with the Wadia iTransport to get the digital off the iPod. I cannot say enough times how great the iPod sounds when used with the Bryston DAC. I just installed 10K worth of power cords and a power conditioner into my system this weekend. Not a bad deal to tweak even better sound out of my $225 iPod.

With that said, I will be retiring the iPod/Wadia to the HT/surround sound system, and replace it with a Bryston BDP-1 digital file player. Of course, then I will be buying the iPad3 to remotely control the Bryston. So, then I will have two Apple products.

heiney9

Just when I thought all the insanity was over. $10K worth of chords and power conditioner for a $200 iPod. That's just simply mind boggling to me and I am the biggest advocate for tweaks, cables, caps, tube rolling, etc.

That is simply the most misguided thing I have read in awhile.

But hey, it's your money and your rig.

H9

Toolfan66

I use my laptop as my music server and use my iPad to pick what songs I want to hear in the comfort of my chair..

BlueFox

heiney9 wrote: »

Just when I thought all the insanity was over. $10K worth of chords and power conditioner for a $200 iPod. That's just simply mind boggling to me and I am the biggest advocate for tweaks, cables, caps, tube rolling, etc.

That is simply the most misguided thing I have read in awhile.

Why? There is also an SACD player as the source. However, the iPod is a fantastic music server, and is a great source. I guess when I do my speaker upgrade a little later then that to will be "misguided". They will be between $10K and 20K once I decide what to get.

I will do the review this weekend of the power upgrade, but the quick review is:

SHUNYATA IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cannot believe the detail that is now playing, and they are still burning in.

heiney9

BlueFox wrote: »

Why? the iPod is a fantastic music server, and is a great source.

That right there is the insanity I am referring to

BlueFox wrote: »

SHUNYATA IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No argument here.

H9

mutelight

ryanjoachim wrote: »

Actually, YOUR lack of information is shown. Android tablets are forced into competing with Apple's prices, not because they're worth it (or not worth it), but because that is the only way to get consumers out of the "more expensive is better" anthem.

The iPad was the first really commercially viable tablet (as we see them now), and it's taken until now for Android (and others) to finally get the market share they need to lower the price point without looking like they're not worth the money to consumers.

Of course, neither of us has any clue how the prices are actually chosen for any of these products.

P.S. I based my percentages off of their desktop offerings, and not specifically their mobile ones. I should have clarified that point.

I would love to see some backing to the statement in bold above.

Then in your P.S. you back-peddle about pricing. Which is it?

As far as PCs compared to Mac:
2.5GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 - $215
21.5" IPS - $250
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB - $30
500GB Serial ATA Drive - $90
AMD Radeon HD 6750M 512MB GDDR5 - $109
Apple Magic Mouse - $53
Apple Wireless Keyboard -$60
HD Webcam - $32
Speakers - say $10
Mic - $3
Motherboard - $112
Case - $60
Power Supply - $45
Wireless NIC - $26
Windows 7 - $139

iMac: $1,200
PC: $1,234

I am sure going all over the internet you could shave some off and reduce it by $100+ but you need to remember this is for building a machine that will take up much more space and is not all built into a display that is only inches deep and you only have to go to one vendor for service.

nspindel

Actually, Brock, believe it or not I've spoken to several people who use the Wadia dock/transport with an iPod listening to Apple Lossless and everyone unanimously says it's incredible. I haven't listened to it myself, but don't knock it till you try it...

nspindel

Until you've experienced Apple customer service first hand, you really can't understand why Apple products are worth the higher prices they command.

BlueFox

nspindel wrote: »

Actually, Brock, believe it or not I've spoken to several people who use the Wadia dock/transport with an iPod listening to Apple Lossless and everyone unanimously says it's incredible. I haven't listened to it myself, but don't knock it till you try it...

And the iTransport 171 upgrade model is even better than the original 170 model. :biggrin:

heiney9

nspindel wrote: »

Actually, Brock, believe it or not I've spoken to several people who use the Wadia dock/transport with an iPod listening to Apple Lossless and everyone unanimously says it's incredible. I haven't listened to it myself, but don't knock it till you try it...

Yes, the magic transport that turns an inexpensive, portable audio device into a stellar performer :rolleyes:. Sorry don't believe it. I've heard the iPod san transport and while it's decently good, I don't believe a simple docking station renders it fantastic.

Neil, so you are willing to listen to the pro side users w/o listening to it and then asking me NOT to listen to the detractors side w/o listening to it??? Hypocrisy, maybe.

No offence at all because you and I are always on the same page, usually.

I'm sure the transport/dock improves over the standard connection, but not that much and please don't post the link the Stereophile review. I've read it before.

H9

P.s. my last comment since this is starting to take on a life of its own.

nspindel

Thing is, you can listen to an iPod all day long, but you're listening to it through it's internal dac. The thing about the Wadia is that it's a direct digital bitstream that it extracts, losslessly, and then you use the dac of your choice. So you can't compare what an ipod sounds like when you listen to it through any other means with how it sounds via the Wadia.

markmarc

Though I won't claim that the iPod/Wadia combo is mind blowing, I will say that it makes for a very very good budget solution, especially if you have the iPod 160gig. The extraction capability of the digital file is exceptional, due in no part to the fact that Wadia is one of the top manufacturers of high-end DAC's. That combination of the 170/71 and the iPod(lossless files) and running it into a quality DAC is a great starting point for computer-based source. It is what convinced me into going with a full blown music server setup.

coolsax

well after comparing the ipad2 and the "new" ipad. I think i'm just going to get a refurbed Ipad 2 for controlling my Squeezebox touch. I was hoping for a true quadcore tablet, but its only a dual core processor with quad core only for the graphics (which is needed for the Retina display). the regular display is just fine for what i'd be using it for... and if i want to take 1080p video i'll just use my Sony HX 1. but can't wait to get one..

markmarc

coolsax wrote: »

well after comparing the ipad2 and the "new" ipad. I think i'm just going to get a refurbed Ipad 2 for controlling my Squeezebox touch. I was hoping for a true quadcore tablet, but its only a dual core processor with quad core only for the graphics (which is needed for the Retina display). the regular display is just fine for what i'd be using it for... and if i want to take 1080p video i'll just use my Sony HX 1. but can't wait to get one..

A wise choice based upon your needs/situation.

ryanjoachim

I might just have to tell my mom to get an iMac the next time she breaks her PC.

Will probably save me some headache.

heiney9

I had an iPod Touch not too long ago. It didn't do anything my Android phone doesn't do and I really hate the iTunes platform so I had no need for it and sold it.

Never have been an Apple adoptor and probably never will be. I suppose if I had a need for a portable music device I'd use it, but iTunes is a deal killer.

H9

sucks2beme

I feel the same about it as I do about texting.
Couldn't care less. But if I change my mind, I just got
a real estate invite promising me one if I attend their
high pressure sales event.

nspindel

heiney9 wrote: »

I had an iPod Touch not too long ago. It didn't do anything my Android phone doesn't do and I really hate the iTunes platform so I had no need for it and sold it.

Never have been an Apple adoptor and probably never will be. I suppose if I had a need for a portable music device I'd use it, but iTunes is a deal killer.

H9

You need a Mac :razz: ITunes, shockingly, works much better on a Mac!

heiney9

No thanks

H9

AsSiMiLaTeD

The notion that Apple vastly overcharges and puts inferior hardware in all their products is simply absurd. That argument was valid several years ago (I know because I used it on many the apple fanboy) but these days it just doesn't hold water. You can make that argument for the Mac Pro desktop I suppose since they haven't updated it in a while, but nobody really buys those anyway so that really a moot point.

Beyond that, their products aren't much more expensive (if at all) than comparable products, and I've yet to have anyone show me information to the contrary.

BeefJerky

nspindel wrote: »

Until you've experienced Apple customer service first hand, you really can't understand why Apple products are worth the higher prices they command.

I have experienced their support a couple of times. Once was okay, and the other time was abysmal. Sorry, but Apple's support isn't all it's cracked up to be based on my experiences.

BlueFox wrote: »

The only Apple product I have is the iPod Classic. I have built a great stereo around using it as music server source, along with the Wadia iTransport to get the digital off the iPod. I cannot say enough times how great the iPod sounds when used with the Bryston DAC. I just installed 10K worth of power cords and a power conditioner into my system this weekend. Not a bad deal to tweak even better sound out of my $225 iPod.

With that said, I will be retiring the iPod/Wadia to the HT/surround sound system, and replace it with a Bryston BDP-1 digital file player. Of course, then I will be buying the iPad3 to remotely control the Bryston. So, then I will have two Apple products.

The only Apple products I currently own are two 160gb 7th gen iPod classics. I keep one in my car that is controlled by my Kenwood head unit, and the other I use with a Logitech s715i speaker dock (primarily as a bathroom speaker).

I've also owned a Mac, as well as several 4th and 5th gen iPod's. I don't hate Apple, but I'm not really a fan either. They are certainly not the end-all be all of any of the products they produce, but that doesn't mean that they're bad either. I guess I'm fairly neutral on the subject.

mutelight wrote: »

I would love to see some backing to the statement in bold above.

Then in your P.S. you back-peddle about pricing. Which is it?

As far as PCs compared to Mac:
2.5GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 - $215
21.5" IPS - $250
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB - $30
500GB Serial ATA Drive - $90
AMD Radeon HD 6750M 512MB GDDR5 - $109
Apple Magic Mouse - $53
Apple Wireless Keyboard -$60
HD Webcam - $32
Speakers - say $10
Mic - $3
Motherboard - $112
Case - $60
Power Supply - $45
Wireless NIC - $26
Windows 7 - $139

iMac: $1,200
PC: $1,234

I am sure going all over the internet you could shave some off and reduce it by $100+ but you need to remember this is for building a machine that will take up much more space and is not all built into a display that is only inches deep and you only have to go to one vendor for service.

I don't actually think that is a fair comparison. You need to compare pre-built Macs to pre-built PCs since that is the only way that Apple sells them. Especially since a pre-built PC can be less expensive than a home-built one.

nspindel

BeefJerky wrote: »

I have experienced their support a couple of times. Once was okay, and the other time was abysmal. Sorry, but Apple's support isn't all it's cracked up to be based on my experiences.

Certainly everyone will have their own experiences, but based on mine, their customer service has been outstanding. A few examples:

My father-in-law had a Dell pc. He was having issues with his Windows XP installation. I can't remember the specifics, but an error kept popping up when he was trying to do something. So we called Microsoft support, ended up in some Indian call center after being on hold for an hour. As soon as I told them it was a Dell machine, they told me I had to contact Dell support. So I called Dell. Waited on hold even longer, ended up in another Indian call center. Their support was basically, "Is it plugged in?" Yes. "Is the power on?" Yes. "Do you see a screen that says Microsoft Windows XP when you restart the computer?" Yes. "Ok, we will need to arrange for you to send the machine back to us so we can restore it to factory condition. Do you have all of your documents backed up?" Grrrrrrr......

Apple is quite the opposite experience. When I made the switch from PC to Mac a few years ago, of course I had questions. And I got answers! No matter what the issue was, if I just brought my laptop to the Apple Store across the street from my office, I had tons of friendly people in blue t-shirts, all of whom speak perfect English, asking me if there is anything they could do to help me. When I'd ask a question, no matter how complicated the issue seemed to be, guess what... They had answers! Without exception, every question or problem was resolved, on the spot, with no wait. And this happened several times. There is value in that! I'm willing to pay more for a product like that! If there were Microsoft stores peppered all over the shopping malls of America filled with friendly people who could fix any problem I had with Windows, then maybe I'd agree that Apple is expensive. But they don't. And there are plenty of problems with Windows.

Here's another experience. I had an iPad 2. In January, I broke it. It slipped out of my hands in my kitchen, and smacked into the edge of my granite countertop. It landed on it's side, right on the volume-up button. The button got jammed and no longer functioned. Not a fatal issue, because there are volume controls on the touch screen, but still annoying. I brought it into the Apple Store, and asked if it could be fixed. The fella looked at it and said, "Oh, this won't be covered by the warranty. This is physical damage." I said, "I know it's not covered by the warranty, I just want to see if it can be fixed." He said, "No worries, we'll just swap it out for a new one anyway." He walked into the back room, and came out and handed me a brand new iPad 2, same specs. This was about 10 months after I purchased it. Customer service doesn't get any better than that.

YMMV, but in my experience, customer service at Apple is spectacular.

(Oh, btw, I didn't even take that new iPad out of the plastic! I promptly sold it on eBay :cheesy grin: The worst kept secret in the world was that the iPad 3 would be out 6 weeks later, so I've been sitting iPad-less for a few weeks. Pre-ordered my new iPad on Wednesday, can't wait for it to arrive on the 16th! Pre-order is the way to go, no lines!)

michael1947

Any Idea what the I Pad 3 will that the others will not?

heiney9

Does the Apple store have nets around it so when the workers want to jump and commit suicide they don't go splat on the concrete? I bet the workers in the Apple store get paid 1000 X more than the people who assemble the iPads, iPhone and iPods in Foreign countries.

H9

P.s. It's Friday so I thought I'd stir the pot a little bit with current headlines.

nspindel

And I bet you get paid a hell of a lot more than people who do your job in those same foreign countries.

The thing I can't understand is why Apple has become the bad guy here? Practically every company manufactures overseas because labor is cheaper. You have to compare what these foreign assembly workers are making compared to what other people in those foreign countries are making, not what people in the United States earn. A lot of the people working in Foxconn plants for a few dollars a day were previously picking rice for a few pennies a day, and somehow whenever Foxconn is hiring, there are hoards of people waiting to get those jobs.